I think it's pretty obvious that Hamlin brings more to our defense than credited

[AbeBeta]

so, roy williams has the second most TD receptions on the team this season. you can skew stats to make a player look good

how is that "skewing stats" - Roy actually does have the 2nd most TD receptions. That is simply a fact. What you are referring to is simply looking to ONE statistic and drawing a conclusion based on that. That has nothing to do with "skewing stats" and everything to do with not thinking critically.

 

[Rampage]

you know who really didnt disappoint me at all, Alan Ball.

well that's the good point of when Hamlin got hurt is we found out we got a decent player in Ball. same with Free coming in for Columbo

 

[Nexx]

lol you guys are comical. hamlin has a few good games and suddenly he is a very underrated safety. crayton has one good game and people are calling him legit #2. hamlin doesnt get credit for TD's against because he isnt the player who has primary coverage on the wide receiver. when he does get burned is when he is suppose to give help over the top and isnt in position. when that td is made the corner back not hamlin gets that td's against stat even though hamlin was suppose to be the help up top.

 

[Nexx]

according to espn, who knows if they are correct but in 2009 hamlin has...

2 passes defended
0 ints
0 forced fumbles
0 sacks

2007 before his contract extention

15 passes defended
5 ints
0 forced
0 sacks

 

[Boyzmamacita]

If you don't know what Hamlin brings to the table, just ask Jeremy Maclin. He hasn't taken his eyes off Hamlin yet.
:laugh2:

 

[theogt]

Here are 2009 statistics for safeties that played at least 60% of their teams' snaps. These exclude Week 17 numbers. I've only included the top 10 players for each category.

Times targeted per snap played (best in the league):

Name		Team	Snaps	TA	Rec	Yds	TD	In	PD	TA/S	Rec/S	TD/S	INT/TA	PD/TA
Ken Hamlin	DAL	668	12	8	134	1	0	1	0.0180	0.0120	0.0015	0.2143	0.0833
Edward Reed	BLT	718	14	10	87	1	3	2	0.0195	0.0139	0.0014	0.0556	0.1429
Nedu Ndukwe	CIN	839	18	11	98	0	1	1	0.0215	0.0131	0.0000	0.1304	0.0556
Mike Brown	KC	1027	23	10	236	2	3	0	0.0224	0.0097	0.0019	0.1600	0.0000
Antoine Bethea	IND	1042	25	13	229	1	4	1	0.0240	0.0125	0.0010	0.0909	0.0400
Ryan Clark	PIT	907	22	9	166	1	2	4	0.0243	0.0099	0.0011	0.0625	0.1818
Charles Godfrey	CAR	654	16	10	130	0	1	2	0.0245	0.0153	0.0000	0.0909	0.1250
Renaldo Hill	DEN	865	22	10	146	1	2	2	0.0254	0.0116	0.0012	0.5000	0.0909
Jairus Byrd	BUF	666	18	6	124	1	9	1	0.0270	0.0090	0.0015	0.1739	0.0556
George Wilson	BUF	843	23	9	94	0	4	1	0.0273	0.0107	0.0000	0.0476	0.0435

Receptions given up per snaps played (6th in the league):

Name		Team	Snaps	TA	Rec	Yds	TD	In	PD	TA/S	Rec/S	TD/S	INT/TA	PD/TA
Jairus Byrd	BUF	666	18	6	124	1	9	1	0.0270	0.0090	0.0015	0.1304	0.0556
Mike Brown	KC	1027	23	10	236	2	3	0	0.0224	0.0097	0.0019	0.0909	0.0000
Ryan Clark	PIT	907	22	9	166	1	2	4	0.0243	0.0099	0.0011	0.1739	0.1818
George Wilson	BUF	843	23	9	94	0	4	1	0.0273	0.0107	0.0000	0.0909	0.0435
Renaldo Hill	DEN	865	22	10	146	1	2	2	0.0254	0.0116	0.0012	0.0000	0.0909
Ken Hamlin	DAL	668	12	8	134	1	0	1	0.0180	0.0120	0.0015	0.1600	0.0833
Antoine Bethea	IND	1042	25	13	229	1	4	1	0.0240	0.0125	0.0010	0.0345	0.0400
Jim Leonhard	NYJ	946	29	12	79	0	1	2	0.0307	0.0127	0.0000	0.0556	0.0690
Nedu Ndukwe	CIN	839	18	11	98	0	1	1	0.0215	0.0131	0.0000	0.2143	0.0556
Edward Reed	BLT	718	14	10	87	1	3	2	0.0195	0.0139	0.0014	0.2432	0.1429

TDs given up (tied for 10th in the league with 1):

Name		Team	Snaps	TA	Rec	Yds	TD
George Wilson	BUF	843	23	9	94	0
Jim Leonhard	NYJ	946	29	12	79	0
Nedu Ndukwe	CIN	839	18	11	98	0
Charles Godfrey	CAR	654	16	10	130	0
Michael Huff	OAK	733	34	15	247	0
Abram Elam	CLV	988	33	24	238	0
Kerry Rhodes	NYJ	876	35	23	276	0
O.J. Atogwe	SL	761	31	21	205	0
Michael Lewis	SF	783	53	40	412	0
Chris Hope	TEN	1051	35	20	273	1
Antoine Bethea	IND	1042	25	13	229	1
J. Babineaux	SEA	1025	58	35	324	1
Roman Harper	NO	971	39	23	319	1
Ryan Clark	PIT	907	22	9	166	1
Gibril Wilson	MIA	900	30	18	249	1
B. Meriweather	NE	896	28	16	286	1
Renaldo Hill	DEN	865	22	10	146	1
Chris Harris	CAR	765	30	20	204	1
Edward Reed	BLT	718	14	10	87	1
Tanard Jackson	TB	711	22	16	171	1
Danieal Manning	CHI	691	21	17	143	1
Ken Hamlin	DAL	668	12	8	134	1
Jairus Byrd	BUF	666	18	6	124	1

 

[Nexx]

If you don't know what Hamlin brings to the table, just ask Jeremy Maclin. He hasn't taken his eyes off Hamlin yet.
:laugh2:

oh no doubt. i never said he didnt have a solid game yesterday, but to call hamlin underrated after his horrible play the last year and half is stupid. i want him to be great and play like he did yesterday, throughout the playoffs and into next season before i give him credit. if he can play like he did in 2007, i'd be extremely happy with our secondary.

 

[Nexx]

Here are 2009 statistics for safeties that played at least 60% of their teams' snaps. These exclude Week 17 numbers. I've only included the top 10 players for each category.

Times targeted per snap played (best in the league):

Name        Team    Snaps    TA    Rec    Yds    TD    In    PD    TA/S    Rec/S    TD/S    INT/TA    PD/TA
Ken Hamlin    DAL    668    12    8    134    1    0    1    0.0180    0.0120    0.0015    0.2143    0.0833
Edward Reed    BLT    718    14    10    87    1    3    2    0.0195    0.0139    0.0014    0.0556    0.1429
Nedu Ndukwe    CIN    839    18    11    98    0    1    1    0.0215    0.0131    0.0000    0.1304    0.0556
Mike Brown    KC    1027    23    10    236    2    3    0    0.0224    0.0097    0.0019    0.1600    0.0000
Antoine Bethea    IND    1042    25    13    229    1    4    1    0.0240    0.0125    0.0010    0.0909    0.0400
Ryan Clark    PIT    907    22    9    166    1    2    4    0.0243    0.0099    0.0011    0.0625    0.1818
Charles Godfrey    CAR    654    16    10    130    0    1    2    0.0245    0.0153    0.0000    0.0909    0.1250
Renaldo Hill    DEN    865    22    10    146    1    2    2    0.0254    0.0116    0.0012    0.5000    0.0909
Jairus Byrd    BUF    666    18    6    124    1    9    1    0.0270    0.0090    0.0015    0.1739    0.0556
George Wilson    BUF    843    23    9    94    0    4    1    0.0273    0.0107    0.0000    0.0476    0.0435

Receptions given up per snaps played (6th in the league):

Name        Team    Snaps    TA    Rec    Yds    TD    In    PD    TA/S    Rec/S    TD/S    INT/TA    PD/TA
Jairus Byrd    BUF    666    18    6    124    1    9    1    0.0270    0.0090    0.0015    0.1304    0.0556
Mike Brown    KC    1027    23    10    236    2    3    0    0.0224    0.0097    0.0019    0.0909    0.0000
Ryan Clark    PIT    907    22    9    166    1    2    4    0.0243    0.0099    0.0011    0.1739    0.1818
George Wilson    BUF    843    23    9    94    0    4    1    0.0273    0.0107    0.0000    0.0909    0.0435
Renaldo Hill    DEN    865    22    10    146    1    2    2    0.0254    0.0116    0.0012    0.0000    0.0909
Ken Hamlin    DAL    668    12    8    134    1    0    1    0.0180    0.0120    0.0015    0.1600    0.0833
Antoine Bethea    IND    1042    25    13    229    1    4    1    0.0240    0.0125    0.0010    0.0345    0.0400
Jim Leonhard    NYJ    946    29    12    79    0    1    2    0.0307    0.0127    0.0000    0.0556    0.0690
Nedu Ndukwe    CIN    839    18    11    98    0    1    1    0.0215    0.0131    0.0000    0.2143    0.0556
Edward Reed    BLT    718    14    10    87    1    3    2    0.0195    0.0139    0.0014    0.2432    0.1429

TDs given up (tied for 10th in the league with 1):

Name        Team    Snaps    TA    Rec    Yds    TD
George Wilson    BUF    843    23    9    94    0
Jim Leonhard    NYJ    946    29    12    79    0
Nedu Ndukwe    CIN    839    18    11    98    0
Charles Godfrey    CAR    654    16    10    130    0
Michael Huff    OAK    733    34    15    247    0
Abram Elam    CLV    988    33    24    238    0
Kerry Rhodes    NYJ    876    35    23    276    0
O.J. Atogwe    SL    761    31    21    205    0
Michael Lewis    SF    783    53    40    412    0
Chris Hope    TEN    1051    35    20    273    1
Antoine Bethea    IND    1042    25    13    229    1
J. Babineaux    SEA    1025    58    35    324    1
Roman Harper    NO    971    39    23    319    1
Ryan Clark    PIT    907    22    9    166    1
Gibril Wilson    MIA    900    30    18    249    1
B. Meriweather    NE    896    28    16    286    1
Renaldo Hill    DEN    865    22    10    146    1
Chris Harris    CAR    765    30    20    204    1
Edward Reed    BLT    718    14    10    87    1
Tanard Jackson    TB    711    22    16    171    1
Danieal Manning    CHI    691    21    17    143    1
Ken Hamlin    DAL    668    12    8    134    1
Jairus Byrd    BUF    666    18    6    124    1

wow you make it too easy

1. least targeted - well he did miss 4 games sir, lol

2. targeted 12 times - completed 8 times, lol thats the worst percentage

3. come on now, the most any safety has given up this year is 2, lol, so its either 0,1, or 2. thats stat is horrible way to judge a safety.


you make this waaaaay too easy. as BSPN would say.....


C'MON MAN!!!!

 

[theogt]

wow you make it too easy

1. least targeted - well he did miss 4 games sir, lol

Which is why I organized it in terms of least targeted per SNAP. This takes into account any missed time. Read a little closer next time.

2. targeted 12 times - completed 8 times, lol thats the worst percentage

I'd rather have a guy targeted 8 times and give up 8 passes in a season, than be targeted 52 times and give up 28 passes (Adrian Wilson).

3. come on now, the most any safety has given up this year is 2, lol, so its either 0,1, or 2. thats stat is horrible way to judge a safety.

Again with the reading problems. This only includes the top 10 safeties for each category. There are 22 safeties in the league that have given up more than 2 TDs. That list of safeties includes 3 pro bowl selections, and our very own Gerald Sensabaugh.

you make this waaaaay too easy. as BSPN would say.....


C'MON MAN!!!!

Well, I guess if you don't actually read what someone posts, then yeah it can be pretty easy to respond.

 

[Nexx]

i agree to disagree. hamlin has deserved all the criticism he has received over the past two years imho. has he played better the last 3 games, yes. does that make him underrated? no imho.

 

[theogt]

i agree to disagree. hamlin has deserved all the criticism he has received over the past two years imho. has he played better the last 3 games, yes. does that make him underrated? no imho.

You're only disagreeing with the facts. Ignore them if you like. I don't really care. But the only way to say that Hamlin has been playing poorly in coverage is to ignore the facts.

 

[burmafrd]

Well done OGT as usual. Gotta be dumb to challenge you where stats are to be found.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

If you don't know what Hamlin brings to the table, just ask Jeremy Maclin. He hasn't taken his eyes off Hamlin yet.
:laugh2:

LOL! That was one of the best things I saw yesterday.

 

[AbeBeta]

i agree to disagree. hamlin has deserved all the criticism he has received over the past two years imho. has he played better the last 3 games, yes. does that make him underrated? no imho.

Wow, you went to that "agree to disagree" pretty quickly.

Is that code for "sorry sir, you owned me."

 

[Nexx]

whatever, you show me stats that hardly matter because safety once again, safety's rarely are given one on one assignments, they are usually help deep and even if that pass is completed the pass against goes against the corner.

Ken Hamlin in 12 games

2 passes defended
0 ints
0 sacks
0 fumbles caused.

Troy P. in 5 games

7 passes defended
3 ints
0 sacks
0 fumble caused.

Nick Collins

13 passes defended
6 ints
0 sacks
0 fumble caused

Adrian Wilson

13 passes defended
5 ints
2 sacks
1 fumble caused

Ed Reed in 12 games

5 passes defended
3 ints
0 sacks
3 fumble caused

How about washed up 36 year old Brian Dawkins

11 passes defended
2 ints
0 sacks
1 fumble caused
116 tackles!!

Kenny Phillips in 2 games

2 passes defended (matches ken's 12 games)
2 ints (two more in 10 less games, lol)
0 sacks
0 fumbles caused

i could go on and on....

we didnt miss a beat with ball in the lineup, that tells me two things. either ball is better than i thought or hamlin was as bad as i thought. i think it was a little bit of both.

 

[theogt]

Ball started 3 games and gave up nearly as many passes and TDs as Hamlin had given up all season to that point.

 

[Nexx]

Wow, you went to that "agree to disagree" pretty quickly.

Is that code for "sorry sir, you owned me."

no sir far from it. it just seemed pointless to keep arguing. no matter what stats the OP threw out there, i am not changing my mind about hamlin until i see hamlin perform to his 2007 level and vice versa, no matter what stats i threw out the OP wouldnt change his mind either.

 

[JBond]

you know who really didnt disappoint me at all, Alan Ball.

Ball is a keeper. I was worried when Newman went out, but Ball has played well with his limited opportunities.

 

[theogt]

no sir far from it. it just seemed pointless to keep arguing. no matter what stats the OP threw out there, i am not changing my mind about hamlin until i see hamlin perform to his 2007 level and vice versa, no matter what stats i threw out the OP wouldnt change his mind either.

Oddly enough, I don't think the OP has thrown out a single stat in this thread.

Hooked on Phonics. Look into it.

 

[Nexx]

Oddly enough, I don't think the OP has thrown out a single stat in this thread.

Hooked on Phonics. Look into it.

excuse me, i meant OG, as in you. lets keep the debate clean. no personal attacks please.