I would trade Zack Martin for a 1st and 2nd

LACowboysFan1 said:
The crux of the matter is that we know what we have in Martin, anybody else is an unknown. Yes, you can say you can't play scared, that Martin will sooner or later fall off and if he's paid wrong, it can be bad. Trading him away for draft picks is chancy, however, with the team being built for Zeke, you HAVE to have a top line, finding the super quarterback who can "make everybody better" is an even bigger uncertainty than finding a top guard. Let's build on what we've got...
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Yes, and we knew what we had in Leary and we let him get away. Anyone on this line can be replaced. We may have a LT that is going
to have to be replaced over the next couple of years too.
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
Who was the last one before Martin? Larry Allen, 2005, 13 years ago. Yeah we can find another one, just wait a decade or so...
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Leary was more that good...I think Hernandez would be a great guard for us and moving Collins back to guard would solve that problem. Fleming looks pretty handy to me...Certainly better than Free.
 
Well this is one of those topics that unfortunately we'll never know which is the best course, since we can't go back and do whichever other way the Cowboys actually do.

Interesting discussion...
 
then why wouldn't some other team do that instead of trading a kings ransom for Zack.

some people on this board say we cant draft a OG in the first because of the value of the position yet here is a thread saying trade a OG for a 1st and 2nd.....which shatters the argument they make about taking a OG at 19.
Im keeping Martin and drafting Wynn and bull-dozing opponents into oblivion.[/QUOTE]



The idea a team is going to part with a 1st and second round pick for the chance to pay a G top dollar is silly, but it was the hypothetical presented to discuss. If someone is dumb enough to make that offer, you take it and use one of those picks on Wynn.
 
LittleD said:
Look, there comes a point that the player and his agent are just not going to be reasonable. We have Martin this year for
about 9.5mil and we can franchise him next year for substantially more. We will have had him for 6 years and now have
two drafts to get his replacement on board. Guards are plentiful year after year. It is LT's that are very hard to get.
Let him get his money from another deep pocket team. We can find another all pro guard.
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You can't just "find another all pro guard". The Cowboys hadn't had one since Larry Allen in 2001. I'd rather not wait 17 years for one as a run first offense when there's one already on the roster, in his prime and not slowing down.
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
So letting Leary, a proven player go, is bad but letting Martin, a proven player, go is good? I think the Cowboys learned their lesson...
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Leary got fair money from Denver and certainly didn't break the bank. Martin has been holding out to break the bank for two years now. We don't have to trade him this year but, if we franchise him next year I would consider seeing what we could get for him.
 
ksg811 said:
You can't just "find another all pro guard". The Cowboys hadn't had one since Larry Allen in 2001. I'd rather not wait 17 years for one as a run first offense when there's one already on the roster, in his prime and not slowing down.
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Guys, I like Martin too but, how much do we like him. Is he worth 70mil, 80mil, 90mil...If he won't sign we have to get something for him while
we can. It is not good for the team to mortgage the future for just one great player. Great players are in the draft every year.
 
Jarv said:
Crazy is right, Bill Belichick would never trade a all star for a 1st round pick...right!
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In the prime of his career? No, he wouldn't and never has. Bill trades players on the back end of their career while they still have decent value. The only one that even somewhat bit him was Richard Seymour, and even he was traded at 30 coming off back to back non pro-bowl seasons. That's not exactly 27 with 4 pro bowls and all-pros in 4 years.
 
If Martin is just too extreme in his demands, then it may come down to "we just can't afford him", regardless of how good he is, I understand that. But as I said, you can ask for the moon, doesn't mean they won't take less.

Let's give the Cowboys a chance to see what they can do...
 
LittleD said:
Guys, I like Martin too but, how much do we like him. Is he worth 70mil, 80mil, 90mil...If he won't sign we have to get something for him while
we can. It is not good for the team to mortgage the future for just one great player. Great players are in the draft every year.
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Yes, he is worth any of those values depending on years. 5/$70M, 6/$80M, 7/$90M all make him the highest paid G ever and would fit into the cap structured similarly to Tyron's and Frederick's deals.
 
ksg811 said:
In the prime of his career? No, he wouldn't and never has. Bill trades players on the back end of their career while they still have decent value. The only one that even somewhat bit him was Richard Seymour, and even he was traded at 30 coming off back to back non pro-bowl seasons. That's not exactly 27 with 4 pro bowls and all-pros in 4 years.
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Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins. Sorry, it's just not true. Belly trades players in their prime while they still have value.

OTOH, Belly also uses whatever he has to to keep NT's and OL's. Wilfork and Mankins are the guys he wouldn't let walk.

And I disagree. I think letting Chandler walk was stupid, and bit him badly in this last super bowl. NE badly needed to pressure Foles, and didn't have the manpower to do so.
 
LittleD said:
Leary got fair money from Denver and certainly didn't break the bank
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Leary has the degenerative knee condition. Also wasn't All Pro year after year, and has had numerous injuries. Zack has a much higher market value...
 
kskboys said:
Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins. Sorry, it's just not true. Belly trades players in their prime while they still have value.

OTOH, Belly also uses whatever he has to to keep NT's and OL's. Wilfork and Mankins are the guys he wouldn't let walk.

And I disagree. I think letting Chandler walk was stupid, and bit him badly in this last super bowl. NE badly needed to pressure Foles, and didn't have the manpower to do so.
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Chandler Jones was an off-field trade and Jamie Collins doesn't belong in the same conversation as Jones, nevermind Martin. Bill was going to re-sign Jones until his drugged out run in with the Foxborough Police. I'm from Ma and live 40 minutes from Gilette. Chandler Jones was not a football decision and doesn't reflect the argument.
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
Put too much money into T. Smith, eh? Well lets see, 5 straight Pro Bowls, All Pro honors, in 2013 he gave up ONE sack and had ONE holding call.

People, great players cost money, big money. Name me one SB winning team that had nothing but a bunch of average players on the team, just one.

At some point you have to pay your best players...
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He gave up 1 sack in 2013? Heck Dez was ballin..in 2013 but we all know it's time for a pay cut. As for the Pro Bowl. I'm sure he didn't participate due to injury. He is a shell of himself when he is injured and he seems to get injured every year. I think Zack Martin is a heck of a football player. I think his asking price is too high considering what we are stuck paying an oft-injured Tyron Smith.
 
I like Zack as much as the OP and the rest of us do but this is the type of move that the Pats would do in a heartbeat. They are willing to forego extreme player loyalty to ensure their team has as few weak spots as possible.

The amount of money we would have tied up in OLine is off the charts and not sure that is the key to winning playoff games. Many would argue that we are too imbalanced at various positions.
 
ondaedg said:
I like Zack as much as the OP and the rest of us do but this is the type of move that the Pats would do in a heartbeat. They are willing to forego extreme player loyalty to ensure their team has as few weak spots as possible.

The amount of money we would have tied up in OLine is off the charts and not sure that is the key to winning playoff games. Many would argue that we are too imbalanced at various positions.
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It's not a question of player loyalty, Martin is a 27 year old, 4 time All Pro guard, who's played every game in his 4 years. You can't get any better than that.

Have we forgotten what happened in 2014 with a powerhouse offensive line? Record rushing yardage and one bad call away from moving on in the playoffs. And that's with a lesser talent at running back.

A top offensive line is a huge part of winning football.

But hey, as soon as anybody is any good - Dez, Martin, Lawrence, etc. let's just trade them for more guys. Who knows, might hit on 22 Tom Bradys in the 6th round? Hey, it could happen!:lmao2:
 
Think this thread has run it's course, nobody's going to change their mind, we'll just have to agree to disagree...
 
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