If Armstrong and Fowler are having problems stopping the run play Williams and 99

[cnuball21]

Quinn has always been my comp for him (Mafe too). He has the build to he an ok run defender, but his play style is always going to be aggressive against the pass. He will probably be playing at least 60%-70% but 2024, and possibly 2023 but he will probably come out in obvious run downs

Since he was a premium pick really, really hope he can develop into more than a situational pass rusher.

If he can’t hope he can’t at least be a really, really good situational pass rusher.

 

[Whirlwin]

Wrong. Go watch his tape this season. Sam Williams is a BEAST against the run.

I don’t know how these people get the information. Did they just pull it out of there but

 

[Whirlwin]

Williams, Clark . Two dangerous rookies

 

[darthseinfeld]

Since he was a premium pick really, really hope he can develop into more than a situational pass rusher.

If he can’t hope he can’t at least be a really, really good situational pass rusher.

With DE's anything after day 1 you are going to get 19 Terrell Basham/Kony Elay types for every Maxx Crosby. If he becomes an 8 sack even just playing as a situational rusher, thats a big win past the 50's

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

Are also having problems stopping the run play Williams and 99 over there on first and second down!! Bohanna Hankins in the middle!! If These guys cant stop the run sit on the bench! Bye bye Gallimore soon!! Better wake up or you are gone soon. They may even trade him soon!

The knock on Williams coming out of Ole Miss was his inability to play the run, so maybe not the best move. I'm guessing the addition of Hankins and Clark working his way into the lineup will clog up the leaks nicely here pretty soon.

 

[cnuball21]

With DE's anything after day 1 you are going to get 19 Terrell Basham/Kony Elay types for every Maxx Crosby. If he becomes an 8 sack even just playing as a situational rusher, thats a big win past the 50's

Yea, I mean you could say that for just about every position. The hit rate drops the further you outside round 1 but there are still guys to be had.

DLaw
Judson
Zdarius Smith
Hendrickson
Crosby

All some of the top DEs in football that aren’t just pass rush specialist. I hope Sam continues to develop, but man if our FO took him thinking he’d only be a situational guy over other potential full starters that’s awful drafting.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yea, I mean you could say that for just about every position. The hit rate drops the further you outside round 1 but there are still guys to be had.

DLaw
Judson
Zdarius Smith
Hendrickson
Crosby

All some of the top DEs in football that aren’t just pass rush specialist. I hope Sam continues to develop, but man if our FO took him thinking he’d only be a situational guy over other potential full starters that’s awful drafting.

The odds of hitting on a DE drops off significantly outside the top 32. More than most other positions. Since 2018, Harold Landry is the only edge rusher taken on day that has had a double digit sack season. Since 2016 you can add Hendrickson and Ngakauo. If Williams is just a pass rusher, he'll still be playing 60% of the snaps. And if he is effective at it, thats a big win late in the 2nd. If you find that disappointing, then you have to recalibrate your expectations of players taken outside day 1. Especially at the second highest paid position in the NFL. The guys you mentioned are rarities for where they were drafted

 

[cnuball21]

The odds of hitting on a DE drops off significantly outside the top 32. More than most other positions. Since 2018, Harold Landry is the only edge rusher taken on day that has had a double digit sack season. Since 2016 you can add Hendrickson and Ngakauo. If Williams is just a pass rusher, he'll still be playing 60% of the snaps. And if he is effective at it, thats a big win late in the 2nd. If you find that disappointing, then you have to recalibrate your expectations of players taken outside day 1. Especially at the second highest paid position in the NFL. The guys you mentioned are rarities for where they were drafted

Sure, it’s a premium position. But I also listed 5 dudes that I’d argue are the in the top 15ish of DEs in football…so 1/3 of the top 15 is players drafted outside of the 1st round. I understand your chances go down after the top 20ish but teams should still keep swinging.

Last I looked Lawrence is currently playing about 60-65% of our defensive snaps and he’s a full time DE. I think 60% as a designated pass rusher might be a little high.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Sure, it’s a premium position. But I also listed 5 dudes that I’d argue are the in the top 15ish of DEs in football…so 1/3 of the top 15 is players drafted outside of the 1st round. I understand your chances go down after the top 20ish but teams should still keep swinging.

Last I looked Lawrence is currently playing about 60-65% of our defensive snaps and he’s a full time DE. I think 60% as a designated pass rusher might be a little high.

And again. I said those players are rarities. I acknowledged that. Did you see where I said 1 DE taken on day 2 in the last 4 years has a double digit sack season. And 3 in the last 6 years? Any DE prospect you get outside of the top 32 is going to have major warts. Even 20-32 doesnt have a great hit rate compared to other positions

At his peak Lawrence played about 70% of defensive snaps. If you pull Williams on obvious run downs, 60% of defensive snaps is still very attainable

 

[cnuball21]

And again. I said those players are rarities. I acknowledged that. Did you see where I said 1 DE taken on day 2 in the last 4 years has a double digit sack season. And 3 in the last 6 years? Any DE prospect you get outside of the top 32 is going to have major warts. Even 20-32 doesnt have a great hit rate compared to other positions

At his peak Lawrence played about 70% of defensive snaps. If you pull Williams on obvious run downs, 60% of defensive snaps is still very attainable

Yes, acknowledge and understand the norm for producing DEs is first round was just trying to show that a 3rd of the best ones in the NFL today are not first rounders.

I’d still disagree on the snap percentage for Williams. DA is currently playing the backup DE role and eating some snaps on base downs for Micah and he’s only around 50-55%. Fowler i’d probably the closest comparison and he’s around 35%.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yes, acknowledge and understand the norm for producing DEs is first round was just trying to show that a 3rd of the best ones in the NFL today are not first rounders.

I’d still disagree on the snap percentage for Williams. DA is currently playing the backup DE role and eating some snaps on base downs for Micah and he’s only around 50-55%. Fowler i’d probably the closest comparison and he’s around 35%.

Fowler and Armstrong contract will be up this year and next. By the time Armstrong is gone, I have a hard time not seeing Williams playing 60% of the snaps. Outside or rotations, the only snaps I see him not in on are short yardage

 

[ConstantReboot]

William's weakness is literally run support. The run D would get worse.

He isn't a starter for a reason.

LOL that was nothing more than a draft analysis. But since he comes in with limited snaps, all he's been doing is blowing things up in our opponents backfield.

 

[cnuball21]

Fowler and Armstrong contract will be up this year and next. By the time Armstrong is gone, I have a hard time not seeing Williams playing 60% of the snaps. Outside or rotations, the only snaps I see him not in on are short yardage

I understand the contracts. But if doesn’t develop against the run he shouldn’t be in the field on 1st down on short yardage situations which would limit the snap count well below 50 IMO.

Maybe just a difference of opinions.

 

[cnuball21]

LOL that was nothing more than a draft analysis. But since he comes in with limited snaps, all he's been doing is blowing things up in our opponents backfield.

I’ve watched every snaps of every game…so what plays are you talking about?

Again, he was unblocked on his TFL against the Lions and he beat a TE against the Rams. Any examples of him getting off a block against an OT and making a run stop?

 

[quickccc]

If I stand correct Quinn uses those 3 safety alignments, even on obvious run downs. I would like to see Parsons playing a little more off the ball and replace Kearse in obvious run downs.

Not me, .. the less we have Parsons in the opposing backfield,... the more we play into what opponents would prefer.

- Off the ball and or in reverse (see Eagles game) is exactly what opponents would love us to do with Parsons.

- The big problem is our other off the ball LBs (ala LVE, Barr) having Not been passing the grades.

- Maybe another reason why we seem to be pushing help for zero experience rookie LB Clarke to contribute ?

 

[ConstantReboot]

I’ve watched every snaps of every game…so what plays are you talking about?

Again, he was unblocked on his TFL against the Lions and he beat a TE against the Rams. Any examples of him getting off a block against an OT and making a run stop?

That Tackle for lost against the Lions was not unblocked. Basically, he beat his man before the Tackle was set. On his second sack for a fumble, he did it against Penei Sewell, one of the better Tackles in the league.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I understand the contracts. But if doesn’t develop against the run he shouldn’t be in the field on 1st down on short yardage situations which would limit the snap count well below 50 IMO.

Maybe just a difference of opinions.

Im not sure they would. Quinn did play almost % of the snaps while he was here (different staffs obviously). I don't see them leaving him off the field on 1st down

 

[cnuball21]

That Tackle for lost against the Lions was not unblocked. Basically, he beat his man before the Tackle was set. On his second sack for a fumble, he did it against Penei Sewell, one of the better Tackles in the league.

He was literally untouched on his TFL on the RB…no one put a finger on him. I’d disagree that he “beat his man before the OT was set” but even if that’s right it’s like saying a WR burned a CB on a miscommunication in the secondary and he’s uncovered. Kind of irrelevant.

Yes, the sacks were great but have nothing to do with run defense.

 

[cnuball21]

Im not sure they would. Quinn did play almost % of the snaps while he was here (different staffs obviously). I don't see them leaving him off the field on 1st down

Which is part of the reason we sucked against the run then…remember how bad Quinn was getting off blocks?

 

[darthseinfeld]

Which is part of the reason we sucked against the run then…remember how bad Quinn was getting off blocks?

Im not saying it was right

Hell Quinn played almost 80% of the snaps last year