If this was a poker game. Tank just got raised and called

[lkelly]

 

[AbeBeta]

The signing of Quinn is a huge move by the Cowboys to end the stalemate with Tank.

Lawrence never thought the Cowboys could replace him and therefore has taken his stance.

But it appears to me that signing Quinn to a $11 /mil a yr deal has shifted everything.

I do not believe the rhetoric from the FO about just wanting to pair Quinn and Tank.

Sure..if it happens fine.

But think about if it does not.

Also think about Tank playing again on the Franchise Tag at $20 mil/yr this season and still awaiting his new contract.

If Quinn suddenly starts have a lights out season and has better sack numbers than Tank..

well he only has a 1 year deal with us and then Tank has competition for his contract.

Quinn has had better sack numbers than Tank in the past.

That is what we would want.

So let this play it's way out.

Worst case scenario we rescind the Tag and keep the money and pay Quinn instead and can redo our other guys easily with the savings.

We win as a team no matter what happens.

They play completely different positions.

Quinn is a pass rush specialist. DLaw is the rare DE who excels against both the run and pass.

Quinn took a paycut because, being a UFA, next year he knew he'd be facing more one on one match ups opposite Tank.

Every thread you start just fails on premise

 

[john van brocklin]

The signing of Quinn is a huge move by the Cowboys to end the stalemate with Tank.

Lawrence never thought the Cowboys could replace him and therefore has taken his stance.

But it appears to me that signing Quinn to a $11 /mil a yr deal has shifted everything.

I do not believe the rhetoric from the FO about just wanting to pair Quinn and Tank.

Sure..if it happens fine.

But think about if it does not.

Also think about Tank playing again on the Franchise Tag at $20 mil/yr this season and still awaiting his new contract.

If Quinn suddenly starts have a lights out season and has better sack numbers than Tank..

well he only has a 1 year deal with us and then Tank has competition for his contract.

Quinn has had better sack numbers than Tank in the past.

That is what we would want.

So let this play it's way out.

Worst case scenario we rescind the Tag and keep the money and pay Quinn instead and can redo our other guys easily with the savings.

We win as a team no matter what happens.

Quinn is a Gregory replacement, not a Tank replacement

 

[buybuydandavis]

I was under the impression that Richard was calling the defense.
And that Marinelli was calling the DL combinations.
And I will say that in the 2016 playoff loss that Marinelli was outcoached.

But last year..not sure.
It was mentioned that Richard was not focused running for coaching interviews the week of the playoff game.
I thought the same thing.
So it is an issue against better coached teams that those guys have to do something more to win in the playoffs.

In both games, I think it was preparation more than play calling.

The Rams had their best rushing day of the season against us.
The Rams inflicted the highest rushing total of the season against us, by almost 100 yards.
The next highest was 178 by Eberflus, who also seemed to have us schemed.
The next was 147 by Carolina, opening game.

We actually had a very good run defense last year. 10 teams under a hundred. 11 if you count the playoff win against the Seahawks. Such a monumental collapse was more likely a coaching failure than the entire front 7 deciding to become bums in the playoffs. And the Rams said it was a coaching failure. They said they had our tells. And that's what it looked like. They ran where we weren't.

 

[PUSHfold]

He got called and raised, not raised and called, geeesh.

Why couldn't it be that Tank raised and got called on his bet?
You don't ever call someone's bet AND THEN raise them on the same turn...if they place a bet and you want to call then you call otherwise you re-raise their bet or fold...or is this some kind of weird terminology you guys mean for a reraise? If you're sitting at a poker table and someone bet's 5$ and you intend to reraise and you say call and raise it's gonna end up getting you into trouble especially on the river getting the floor involved. People are gonna think you're angling. You may "technically" be calling AND RAISING but you just say "raise or reraise" if you intend to do that.
preflop:
Player 1: bets 5$
player 2: has 3 options Call, raise, or fold.
the flop:
player 1: check or bet.
player 2: can check if no bet otherwise can call, raise, fold.
turn:
player 1: check or bet.
player 2: can check if no bet otherwise can call, raise, fold.
River:
player 1: check or bet.
player 2: can check if no bet otherwise can call, raise, fold.

Anyways trade tank, he's not worth 22m+ a season...haha yeah right. I would take a 3rd for him at this point.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The signing of Quinn is a huge move by the Cowboys to end the stalemate with Tank.

Lawrence never thought the Cowboys could replace him and therefore has taken his stance.

But it appears to me that signing Quinn to a $11 /mil a yr deal has shifted everything.

I do not believe the rhetoric from the FO about just wanting to pair Quinn and Tank.

Sure..if it happens fine.

But think about if it does not.

Also think about Tank playing again on the Franchise Tag at $20 mil/yr this season and still awaiting his new contract.

If Quinn suddenly starts have a lights out season and has better sack numbers than Tank..

well he only has a 1 year deal with us and then Tank has competition for his contract.

Quinn has had better sack numbers than Tank in the past.

That is what we would want.

So let this play it's way out.

Worst case scenario we rescind the Tag and keep the money and pay Quinn instead and can redo our other guys easily with the savings.

We win as a team no matter what happens.

Signing Quinn has NO effect on Lawrence whatsoever. And Tank isnt quacking his boots over it either.

 

[Beast_from_East]

The signing of Quinn is a huge move by the Cowboys to end the stalemate with Tank.

Lawrence never thought the Cowboys could replace him and therefore has taken his stance.

But it appears to me that signing Quinn to a $11 /mil a yr deal has shifted everything.

I do not believe the rhetoric from the FO about just wanting to pair Quinn and Tank.

Sure..if it happens fine.

But think about if it does not.

Also think about Tank playing again on the Franchise Tag at $20 mil/yr this season and still awaiting his new contract.

If Quinn suddenly starts have a lights out season and has better sack numbers than Tank..

well he only has a 1 year deal with us and then Tank has competition for his contract.

Quinn has had better sack numbers than Tank in the past.

That is what we would want.

So let this play it's way out.

Worst case scenario we rescind the Tag and keep the money and pay Quinn instead and can redo our other guys easily with the savings.

We win as a team no matter what happens.

I dont think this is correct.

First of all, Quinn is a RDE and DLaw is a LDE...……….and yes, there is a hell of a lot of difference between the two. you just cant plug and play and move Quinn to LDE, especially not in this scheme. The two positions have totally different responsibilities and assignments.

Secondly, media reports are that Quinn picked Dallas over the Saints because he knew that DLaw would draw most of the double teams and that would leave him one on one. That is important because its a one year deal he signed {8 mill, not 11 bty} and he is looking to cash in next year as an UFA. He did not come to Dallas to "be the man" on the pass rush.

Third, DLaw got so scared when he saw Dallas sign Quinn that he upped his demands to $23 million now, used to be $20 million. That is not the action of a player that feels threatened for his job, in fact, its quite the opposite. That is the actions of a player that knows the team needs him and got nobody else to replace him. See, DLaw and his agent both know Quinn is a RDE also, see point one above.

 

[IrishAnto]

Not saying we are better off without Tank.

But the team certainly saw the need to bring in somebody who has been a featured pass rusher in the event Tank does not come to terms.

Doubly so with Gregory and Irvin gone.

At least if Tank does not report..

Quinn has ability and done it before.

Other than that..the shelves are bare.

The draft is going to turn up something and there is still time to look at other options.

Hoping Gregory finally grows up could be a long wait.

I'd be a lot happier if the team "saw the need" to sign their best player on DL.
This should have been sorted a while ago.
If we're "all in" this year then we need Tank playing for us from day 1.

 

[ItzKelz]

The signing of Quinn is a huge move by the Cowboys to end the stalemate with Tank.

Lawrence never thought the Cowboys could replace him and therefore has taken his stance.

But it appears to me that signing Quinn to a $11 /mil a yr deal has shifted everything.

I do not believe the rhetoric from the FO about just wanting to pair Quinn and Tank.

Sure..if it happens fine.

But think about if it does not.

Also think about Tank playing again on the Franchise Tag at $20 mil/yr this season and still awaiting his new contract.

If Quinn suddenly starts have a lights out season and has better sack numbers than Tank..

well he only has a 1 year deal with us and then Tank has competition for his contract.

Quinn has had better sack numbers than Tank in the past.

That is what we would want.

So let this play it's way out.

Worst case scenario we rescind the Tag and keep the money and pay Quinn instead and can redo our other guys easily with the savings.

We win as a team no matter what happens.

Why do you think Quinn is a replacement for DLaw? They do not even play on the same side of the DL. Quinn is no where near being a top defender against the run like DLaw is.

 

[TheCount]

Some of the guys on The Break were arguing that the defense would be the same or better with Quinn but without Lawrence.

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

 

[Northern_Cowboy]

The signing of Quinn is a huge move by the Cowboys to end the stalemate with Tank.

Lawrence never thought the Cowboys could replace him and therefore has taken his stance.

But it appears to me that signing Quinn to a $11 /mil a yr deal has shifted everything.

I do not believe the rhetoric from the FO about just wanting to pair Quinn and Tank.

Sure..if it happens fine.

But think about if it does not.

Also think about Tank playing again on the Franchise Tag at $20 mil/yr this season and still awaiting his new contract.

If Quinn suddenly starts have a lights out season and has better sack numbers than Tank..

well he only has a 1 year deal with us and then Tank has competition for his contract.

Quinn has had better sack numbers than Tank in the past.

That is what we would want.

So let this play it's way out.

Worst case scenario we rescind the Tag and keep the money and pay Quinn instead and can redo our other guys easily with the savings.

We win as a team no matter what happens.

Cowboys won't recind the tag, that would be stupid then he becomes a FA and then we are stuck with Quinn (who is 2 years older and on a 1 year deal and we will have to go thru all this again next season). D-Law holds all the cards he can actually wait until the last day to sign the tender (July 15th) then opt to have surgery (be out 3-4 months) come back sometime between mid Oct to mid Nov, play 6-8 games (reducing his chance of injury) with the 1st couple of games having him worked back ito the lineup slowly, then he will be a FA next season unless the Cowboys want to give him the tag again only it will cost them 30+ next season. All we have heard about is the 20M vs the 22,5 million he has asked for, i guarantee you that isn 't the reason for the holdout, the holdout is about the guaranteed money and funny we haven't heard anything about what the Cowboys have offered on that front. IN the NFL the guarantee is what it is all about, yearly averages don't mean a thing in the NFL

 

[kskboys]

Redball, that would be called and then raised. That's the chronological order of the betting procedure but I do not think Lawrence is going to fold.

If there's a bluff, it is that Gregory might be ready to go by game 1.

Can't call and raise. That would be taking two actions. You can call or raise, not both.

 

[kskboys]

Winning teams are built around play makers. Just sayin'.

True. However, play makers are irrelevant if you don't have enough around them.

 

[Redball Express]

They play completely different positions.

Quinn is a pass rush specialist. DLaw is the rare DE who excels against both the run and pass.

Quinn took a paycut because, being a UFA, next year he knew he'd be facing more one on one match ups

I dont think this is correct.

First of all, Quinn is a RDE and DLaw is a LDE...……….and yes, there is a hell of a lot of difference between the two. you just cant plug and play and move Quinn to LDE, especially not in this scheme. The two positions have totally different responsibilities and assignments.

Secondly, media reports are that Quinn picked Dallas over the Saints because he knew that DLaw would draw most of the double teams and that would leave him one on one. That is important because its a one year deal he signed {8 mill, not 11 bty} and he is looking to cash in next year as an UFA. He did not come to Dallas to "be the man" on the pass rush.

Third, DLaw got so scared when he saw Dallas sign Quinn that he upped his demands to $23 million now, used to be $20 million. That is not the action of a player that feels threatened for his job, in fact, its quite the opposite. That is the actions of a player that knows the team needs him and got nobody else to replace him. See, DLaw and his agent both know Quinn is a RDE also, see point one above.

I understand your points.

But to me still..

Quinn is a bottom line insurance in the event the deal does not get done with Tank.

Ideally..yes.

He is in addition to Tank. But if Tank continues to not have his surgery he is not going to be ready.

And assuming it does happen and when..that elevated Quinn to the #1 pass rusher. He replaces Tank as the main man.

And we have no idea if after the surgery, Tank plays like the past. It's unknown.

I think the team has to assume this is not just about the money.

It's about who is playing.

As far as some believing Quinn is a RDE exclusively..

Ideally, yes.

But DeMarcus Ware played LBer, DE and occasionally inside trying to use him effectively as he was the only talent the DL had.

So I expect Dallas to draft at least 2 DL in the draft early to help the defense missing Gregory, Irvin and Tank.

That's part of Quinn's role now.

Wave it off if you want..

but it is what the reality is.

That is my point with the thread.

I think Dallas did well picking up Quinn.

Time will tell how well.

 

[TwoDeep3]

True. However, play makers are irrelevant if you don't have enough around them.

Which isn't germane to the discussion of dumping Lawrence. Which was the reason I responded as I did. A player of Lawrence's caliber would be worth a great deal. Except he needs surgery and will require a huge commitment of cap . He also would require a heavy commitment to trade for him. Although I think less than people believe.

So he is more valuable to the Cowboys than to other teams because the Cowboys only need pay him and not trade away assets.

So to that end, trading for a couple of picks requires you to trade away the playmaker. And in zero instances does losing the playmaker equal the trade if the play maker isn't disruptive on the team.

 

[CWR]

They play completely different positions.

Quinn is a pass rush specialist. DLaw is the rare DE who excels against both the run and pass.

Quinn took a paycut because, being a UFA, next year he knew he'd be facing more one on one match ups opposite Tank.

Every thread you start just fails on premise

LOL, you're so bitter Abe.

 

[unsportsmanlikeconduct]

Actually in real world poker it’s just “raised”. First word is considered an action. So you cant call AND raise.

You're wrong but it's just a shorter version of saying "I call your X and raise you Y"

Anyhow, this isn't a poker site and I was just being facetious.

 

[AbeBeta]

LOL, you're so bitter Abe.

I'm bitter for pointing out basic facts that show the premise if the thread is false?

 

[unsportsmanlikeconduct]

Redball already explained he got it backwards because he isn’t much of a card player - let it go. You get the point he was trying to make. I’m coming down because I didn’t see a sarc smiley face at end of your post.

I will continue to use sarcasm without a smiley face any damn time I please, thank you.

 

[CWR]

I'm bitter for pointing out basic facts that show the premise if the thread is false?