If Waters signs next week, over/under on contract $'s?

Stash

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Mickey is the biggest shill ever; but probably does have good info on this. THEN again the Boys might be using him to put pressure on Waters by making him think the boys are ready to walk away.

If Mickey has ever been a source of insider news, I'm not aware of it.

A nice guy in person, but the biggest shill you're ever going to see.

If you look close enough, you can actually see the strings.

He's downplayed any mention of Waters every time it's been brought up.
 

Nirvana

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They may be waiting until after week 1 as they could then release him at any point during the season and not be up against a guaranteed contract at that point.
 

boysfanindc

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It does seem it is becoming less likely that Mr. Waters will be in a Cowboys uniform to start the season.

Although there is certainly some mixed messages going around, just a few days ago I read there is no time table to bring him in from the boys, now hearing they are tired of waiting for him.

Love to be a fly on the wall and really know what the story is, instead of trying to read in between the lines of all the info coming out.
 

MichaelWinicki

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If Mickey has ever been a source of insider news, I'm not aware of it.

A nice guy in person, but the biggest shill you're ever going to see.

If you look close enough, you can actually see the strings.

He's downplayed any mention of Waters every time it's been brought up.


It could be he's downplayed the Waters thing because there's a reason for it.
 

MichaelWinicki

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They may be waiting until after week 1 as they could then release him at any point during the season and not be up against a guaranteed contract at that point.

Unless there's another injury he will be much less needed after week 1.
 

Nirvana

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Unless there's another injury he will be much less needed after week 1.

I would like to have confidence in Bern at RG but I don't. Whether it's another injury or poor play, having Waters to plug in at RG makes all the sense in the world to me. But probably not for the $ he wants (apparently.) I hope he is signed at some point with a friendly contract.
 

MichaelWinicki

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I would like to have confidence in Bern at RG but I don't. Whether it's another injury or poor play, having Waters to plug in at RG makes all the sense in the world to me. But probably not for the $ he wants (apparently.) I hope he is signed at some point with a friendly contract.

I know what you're saying, but you have to trust Garrett and Co. on if Waters is necessary.
 

Nirvana

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I know what you're saying, but you have to trust Garrett and Co. on if Waters is necessary.

What puts things in perspective for me is the cap and our desire to sign players like Lee and Dez to long term deals, and needing the cash to do so. That is a selling point for me that Waters is not necessary, otherwise it's a no-brainer that he should be signed if we can afford it.
 

MichaelWinicki

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What puts things in perspective for me is the cap and our desire to sign players like Lee and Dez to long term deals, and needing the cash to do so. That is a selling point for me that Waters is not necessary, otherwise it's a no-brainer that he should be signed if we can afford it.

I agree with that take. If this team was going to be well-off when it came to the cap in 2014 I'd be "all-in" for Waters. But like you say the desire to extend guys like Lee and Dez needs to come first.
 

kirkjrk

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How much is too much? It seems to me that is what the boys are asking themselves.

The team doesn't want to jeopardize their signing of Lee and Dez by paying to much for Waters. Let's say Waters is asking $ 3M then the team ask themselves "how much is to much". They tell Waters that $3M may have been a realistic number if it was early in the off season and included OTAs mini camps and TC, like the other players, but since it doesn't then something more realistic would be $2M. Since they don't know what their getting in an 18 month inactive player. My maximum would be $2.5M and I would grit my teeth real hard to give that. "Don't let the tail wag the dog"
 

Stash

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I know what you're saying, but you have to trust Garrett and Co. on if Waters is necessary.

Some folks 'trusted' in 2011 when Waters was available then.

And, like Garrett, ended up looking like fools.

They didn't have my 'trust' then, and they don't have it now.

I hope they do the right thing, but don't assume they will.
 

Idgit

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Mickey is the biggest shill ever; but probably does have good info on this. THEN again the Boys might be using him to put pressure on Waters by making him think the boys are ready to walk away.

I'd say he probably does have an idea what's going on.

BTW, burm, have you heard Mick's take on Livings already? The last episode of Talking Cowboys indicated that the guy was a ghost in the offseason training program and is basically just mailing it in because of the $1.7M guaranteed on his deal this year. More than just the injury, or the fact that many think the guy can't play (I don't agree that he can't play, but whatever), the attitude that he'd turn it off because of a guarantee when he plays such a position of obvious need for us is pretty gross.
 

Idgit

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Some folks 'trusted' in 2011 when Waters was available then.

And, like Garrett, ended up looking like fools.

They didn't have my 'trust' then, and they don't have it now.

I hope they do the right thing, but don't assume they will.

Yeah. I posted in another thread on this topic that Broaddus indicated the scouts were very high on Waters then, too, and that the hold up might have had something to do with Hudson Houck. Either way, they blew it. I thought they may have done the same thing with Clabo this year, though it appears that they might have made the right call there.

I don't mind playing with Leary and Mack as starters, so much, but we've got to have a better swing option on the roster than Arkin's been able to demonstrate so far. If Killer had shown any signs of staying healthy that would be one thing. As it is now, our best option to an OG injury is to slide Costa in and move Frederick to G. That's a pretty good third option to have, but it's too thin to go in with just that plan.

Maybe Arkin will continue to perform well the rest of the preseason. I'd love it if I thought he could be even a short-term starter for us, but I'm not holding my breath. The other option is to hope a decent Dockery-type player shakes loose in the cutdowns, or that we can trade a player at a deeper position for one. Realistically, I'd like that player to be a heck of a lot better than Dockery was by the time we got our hands on him.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Yeah. I posted in another thread on this topic that Broaddus indicated the scouts were very high on Waters then, too, and that the hold up might have had something to do with Hudson Houck. Either way, they blew it. I thought they may have done the same thing with Clabo this year, though it appears that they might have made the right call there.

I don't mind playing with Leary and Mack as starters, so much, but we've got to have a better swing option on the roster than Arkin's been able to demonstrate so far. If Killer had shown any signs of staying healthy that would be one thing. As it is now, our best option to an OG injury is to slide Costa in and move Frederick to G. That's a pretty good third option to have, but it's too thin to go in with just that plan.

Maybe Arkin will continue to perform well the rest of the preseason. I'd love it if I thought he could be even a short-term starter for us, but I'm not holding my breath. The other option is to hope a decent Dockery-type player shakes loose in the cutdowns, or that we can trade a player at a deeper position for one. Realistically, I'd like that player to be a heck of a lot better than Dockery was by the time we got our hands on him.

Well you still have Peterman and Carlisle Cooper out there.
 

Idgit

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Well you still have Peterman and Carlisle Cooper out there.

Somebody's got to shake loose a viable backup OG prospect at some point, right? Maybe Godfrey plays so well he Selvies himself a spot on the roster for us this year?
 

Echo9

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Why not do a 2 year deal with 2m upfront, vet min salary and 1.5m in incentives for games started and a 3m base for next year, non guaranteed. Basically 2yrs/7m.

That's not a crazy idea, but I think the numbers are a little high.

1) You have 2M signing bonus spread out to count 1M this year and 1M next year.
2) You have a guaranteed base salary of about $925,000 for 2013.
3) Incentives that would add up to 1.5M more for 2013 if he starts.
4) A 3M base salary that he probably won't get for next year, since this is - in effect - a one year deal.

So that's 3,425,000 for 2013 and an additional 1M cap hit in 2014 if he's a June 1 cut. If he plays in 2014, then it would be 4M in 2014.

I think that's more than Dallas wants to spend.
 
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