If we win the SB, do we credit BP at all?

[Doomsday101]

I agree with yours and BrAinPaint's perspective. Besides, we'll never know what the team would have Been like if Parcells had full freedom to make some of the decisions he needed to make in the stretch of his tenure with the Cowboys.

Side Note: Anyone that's been here for any length of time can tell you that I'm familiar with many of the longtime members here at the Zone. That said, I still wonder sometimes just who some of the members really are ...

For example ...the highlighted segment of your post above sure does sound as though you have some "direct" inside connection in the tone of your writing. I could be imaGining that, but I've always wondered about that ...I think I've Just talked My way into a new thread. I'll see you soon (quote from Tombstone ...the movie)

No inside connection but I have lived and breathed football and the Dallas Cowboys for over 40 years. I do understand that while fans want instant success it does not normally happen like that, it takes time to turn a franchise around who had been floundering for way too many years. I have no doubt that Parcells was disappointed that we did not get further along than we did but there is no doubt in my mind that this franchise is better off today because of Parcells.

 

[randy932]

I disagree this team made it to post season this past year despite having a inexperianced QB and were raked as one of the better offense in the league. He kept Owens under control for the most part. Taking over the Cowboys when this team was going no where fast and helping turn them around is a big deal. You may not like his style but he kept the players in line and they came to camp in shape and suffered few major injuries because of he tough ways.

34-32 overall

24-25 without counting the year with Campo's guys.

One player has been shot 2 times in 4 years.

We were penalized almost 1000 yards last season(99 penalties)

We had a player decide to ride the stationary bike, instead of work out, because of dubious and shadowy "injuries" (yet he was able to run sprints
{witha pulled hammy})

The team quit on him, again, in December because, according to a defensive player, "we had lost confidence in the coaching".

Parcells himself said he couldn't coach a hungry lion to eat red meat. He was dead on about that.

34-32 overall

24-25 without counting the year with Campo's guys.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

"...but if we did win it all he would get some of the credit because chances are without bill we would not have wade."

Is absolutely laughable and has nothing to do with Parcells meriting any type of consideration for the Cowboys going to the Super Bowl.

Your attempt at humor is merely that of a junior high school level. Goes along perfectly with your reasons(?) why Parcells should be given credit for any future achievements the Cowboys have. Junior High School level. Parcells had his chance, failed pathetically as a coach. He kept his head above water as a de facto GM, but he utterly failed as a HC the last 3 years.

Sure it does...because we would be winning with many of the players bill brought in on the defense. The same base defense, with different ways to use it, as bill had.

We did not bring in the type of players and size of players to run another 4-3 defense.

Bill indeed played a huge role in Wade being the HC now.

You may like it, you may not like it, but is just the way it is.

With campo years we have hardly any of the same starting players we have now. Flo and Gurode on Offense. Williams and Ellis on defense. I could be missing a player or two there.

Now going into the season we will have many starters from Bill that will be starters under wade.

Now bill did fail as HC because he did not get us to a superbowl or playoff win.

But he did make us a better team then we had and the only people that would say otherwise are being foolish.

 

[Doomsday101]

34-32 overall

24-25 without counting the year with Campo's guys.

One player has been shot 2 times in 4 years.

We were penalized almost 1000 yards last season(99 penalties)

We had a player decide to ride the stationary bike, instead of work out, because of dubious and shadowy "injuries" (yet he was able to run sprints
{witha pulled hammy})

The team quit on him, again, in December because, according to a defensive player, "we had lost confidence in the coaching".

Parcells himself said he couldn't coach a hungry lion to eat red meat. He was dead on about that.

34-32 overall

24-25 without counting the year with Campo's guys.

I'm not going to continue with the dog chasing tail conversation, you feel BP did a bad job your entitled to your opinion, I clearly disagree and feel this team is better off because of Parcells. End of Story

 

[superpunk]

I really don't think we accumulated 1,000 yards in penalties. I think that, in addition to having a ridiculous definition of "failure", you've also looked at the penalties we've committed and added them together with the penalties committed against us.

 

[randy932]

Sure it does...because we would be winning with many of the players bill brought in on the defense. The same base defense, with different ways to use it, as bill had.

We did not bring in the type of players and size of players to run another 4-3 defense.

Bill indeed played a huge role in Wade being the HC now.

You may like it, you may not like it, but is just the way it is.

With campo years we have hardly any of the same starting players we have now. Flo and Gurode on Offense. Williams and Ellis on defense. I could be missing a player or two there.

Now going into the season we will have many starters from Bill that will be starters under wade.

Now bill did fail as HC because he did not get us to a superbowl or playoff win.

But he did make us a better team then we had and the only people that would say otherwise are being foolish.

Just like the best season Parcells had as a Cowboy came his first year, with Campo's players.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Just like the best season Parcells had as a Cowboy came his first year, with Campo's players.

And this has what to do with my original point?

Do you disagree that without bill putting in the 3-4 we would have hired Wade Phillips as the HC?

Do you think we would have hired Wade Phillips as the HC if we would have stayed with the 4-3?

Has Jerry been on record saying the next coach would stick with the 3-4 (before bill stepped down)?

So like it or not it is there.

I realize you did not like coach Parcells, you were not satisfied with the job he did.

However don't let your hate or dislike of him blind you.

He should and will get credit for some of the success IF, and this is all hypothetical anyways as we have not played a game yet, we would win a superbowl this year.

 

[zrinkill]

this team is better off because of Parcells. End of Story

Thats all that needs to be said. Bill gave Jerry a talent evaluator he was sorely lacking in the Campo years .... hopefully with Wade and Garrett on board he will continue to be steered in the right direction.

 

[superpunk]

Just like the best season Parcells had as a Cowboy came his first year, with Campo's players.

I would say his best season came last year. We got a legit QB, a running game, a defense which at least has some very talented parts, we made the playoffs and nearly won the game.

That's a little better than our fraudulent defensive performance against an easy schedule, getting trashed by the Panthers and then cutting our starting QB, I think.

But still, a horrifyingly dismal and pathetic failure, being from New jersey and all.

 

[Doomsday101]

Thats all that needs to be said. Bill gave Jerry a talent evaluator he was sorely lacking in the Campo years .... hopefully with Wade and Garrett on board he will continue to be steered in the right direction.

I think it was more than that. Only 3 HC in the history of this team have taken bad teams and turned them into winning teams. Landry of course as the 1st HC of an expansion team who did not get the sweet heart situation you see from recent expansion teams. Jimmy Johnson who took over a 3-13 team and yes Parcells who took over a 5-11 team.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

I do understand that while fans want instant success it does not normally happen like that, it takes time to turn a franchise around who had been floundering for way too many years.

Boy, you sure really hit that perspective right on top of the head!

 

[Doomsday101]

Boy, you sure really hit that perspective right on top of the head!

I feel people live in a sitcom world now day. Problem and problem solved in 30 mins. People want so much so quickly and normally things do not work that way. To build something it takes time and so many can't seem to figure that out. I want it and I want it now and if that does not happen they get their panties in a wad and want major change.

 

[zrinkill]

I think it was more than that. Only 3 HC in the history of this team have taken bad teams and turned them into winning teams. Landry of course as the 1st HC of an expansion team who did not get the sweet heart situation you see from recent expansion teams. Jimmy Johnson who took over a 3-13 team and yes Parcells who took over a 5-11 team.

Hey I agree ...... in Parcells first year he had swagger and seemed to really enjoy being back in the game ...... I think the stress of the Quincy Carter firing started his downhill slide and his brothers death finished it ..... I believe he only coached last year out of stubborness to admit he was done .....

hats off to him ...... he made us a more talented team ..... and I thank him for that.

 

[sago1]

Besides if you can't give Parcells credit for all the good players he brought to this team if we win the SB this year or next, then I guess you gotta believe that it was only because of Switzer's great coaching in 94 & 95 that we won the 3rd Super Bowl of the 90s in Jan 96.

 

[superpunk]

I think the comparisons between Jimmy and Barry are unfounded when in relation to the thread topic.

Yes, Barry won a super bowl with Jimmy's players - but Jimmy had already done it, twice.

If Wade wins a SB with Bill's players, he's doing something Bill couldn't manage. Certainly Bill is a part of it, but the final push to the SB has got to be credited to Wade, almost exclusively - for doing something Bill couldn't, regardless of who he did it with.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think the comparisons between Jimmy and Barry are unfounded when in relation to the thread topic.

Yes, Barry won a super bowl with Jimmy's players - but Jimmy had already done it, twice.

If Wade wins a SB with Bill's players, he's doing something Bill couldn't manage. Certainly Bill is a part of it, but the final push to the SB has got to be credited to Wade, almost exclusively - for doing something Bill couldn't, regardless of who he did it with.

I would agree with that. I think if this team does achive a championship Parcells should get some credit (I know I'll give him his due) but by and large it is all on Wade Phillips

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think the comparisons between Jimmy and Barry are unfounded when in relation to the thread topic.

Yes, Barry won a super bowl with Jimmy's players - but Jimmy had already done it, twice.

If Wade wins a SB with Bill's players, he's doing something Bill couldn't manage. Certainly Bill is a part of it, but the final push to the SB has got to be credited to Wade, almost exclusively - for doing something Bill couldn't, regardless of who he did it with.

That is a fair point.

However I do wish to reiterate what the official title said

This part in particular....do we credit BP at all

It does not say all of the credit. It says credit at all.

IMO he would deserve some credit. Not only for turning the team around, getting new players but hopefully also helping Jerry see some things in a different light.

 

[Dodger12]

Hey I agree ...... in Parcells first year he had swagger and seemed to really enjoy being back in the game ...... I think the stress of the Quincy Carter firing started his downhill slide and his brothers death finished it ..... I believe he only coached last year out of stubborness to admit he was done .....

hats off to him ...... he made us a more talented team ..... and I thank him for that.

Well said. I also think BP's first year here gave him a false sence of tallent, in that he overestimated what the players were cable of. In that sense, it took him one year too long to blow that team up and change the defensive scheme. He also had a year "invested" in QC and, in the end, that cost him because he had no one to turn to but Vinny T.

In the end, we shored up some of our skill positions: we've got a young (potential) franchise QB, a stud DE and a stud CB.

WP takes over a top 10 team and if he can get the D to play to what many feel is their potential, he'll get the credit he deserves, jus as BP will get some credit for bringing in some good, overall tallent.

 

[iceberg]

That is a fair point.

However I do wish to reiterate what the official title said

This part in particular....do we credit BP at all

It does not say all of the credit. It says credit at all.

IMO he would deserve some credit. Not only for turning the team around, getting new players but hopefully also helping Jerry see some things in a different light.

everyone knows how i feel about BP but *if* we were to win it all this year, YES bp gets some credit. the reasons you list sound good to me - eps. about helping jones see things differently.

 

[randy932]

And this has what to do with my original point?

Do you disagree that without bill putting in the 3-4 we would have hired Wade Phillips as the HC?

Do you think we would have hired Wade Phillips as the HC if we would have stayed with the 4-3?

Has Jerry been on record saying the next coach would stick with the 3-4 (before bill stepped down)?

So like it or not it is there.

I realize you did not like coach Parcells, you were not satisfied with the job he did.

However don't let your hate or dislike of him blind you.

He should and will get credit for some of the success IF, and this is all hypothetical anyways as we have not played a game yet, we would win a superbowl this year.

You have me all wrong. I don't hate Parcells. He should have stayed retired though because his coaching methods are from yesteryear and they simply will not work in the current NFL. He has earned zero credit as far as the future success or failure of the Dallas Cowboys is concerned, NONE! He has done a barely mediocre job of acquiring talent here and his coaching absolutely sucks. His negative, controlling, personality sucked all the life out of the entire franchise, even his boss speaks of the fact that it will be good to not have everyone walking on eggshells around VR. Just because he got some good results at other locations, that doesn't earn him any points as far as the Cowboys are concerned.

It is good that the Cowboys acquired better talent while he was here, but he would have almost had to try NOT to acquire better talent than what we had prior to his arrival, in order to NOT to have improved the talent level. He gets no points for doing anything special there because he did not do anything special. His coaching was atrocious, predictable, lousy, play not to lose, sickening to watch, as imaginative as a slug. Thank God he is gone.