If you could have one current head coach

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yes, I was to referring to "actual" positive traits.

After having a coach that the team quit playing hard for...That is a actual positive trait to have..or a positive trait to have in ANY HC.

I will give you another one.

Prior to Jason taking over as HC...How many times did Jerry Jones draft an Offensive Linemen in the first round? That was not just coincidence.

I have also noticed we have started getting rid of overpriced players who no longer produce to their pay or have them restructure...that started after Jason became HC.

Look..I don't like Jason...well I should say I don't like him being the HC anymore. I think he should have been canned this last season.

I don't think he should have been hired as HC so quickly and I think one of the main reasons it happened was because Jerry Liked him but also because Jerry did not want to lose out on what he viewed as another Sean Payton situation

And for those that say laud jason for so many things without acknowledging his short comings or try to belittle them to defend him...Even Jerry Jones has said he is a coach in training and has had speed bumps.

So I don't have a problem if people don't like him or want someone else to be the HC because I feel the same way.

What I do not like is those that take the direct and dramatic opposite of acting like he does no right and others think he does no wrong. You are basically the bizzarro of some of the guys you argue with on this topic.

 

[Idgit]

After having a coach that the team quit playing hard for...That is a actual positive trait to have..or a positive trait to have in ANY HC.

I will give you another one.

Prior to Jason taking over as HC...How many times did Jerry Jones draft an Offensive Linemen in the first round? That was not just coincidence.

I have also noticed we have started getting rid of overpriced players who no longer produce to their pay or have them restructure...that started after Jason became HC.

Look..I don't like Jason...well I should say I don't like him being the HC anymore. I think he should have been canned this last season.

I don't think he should have been hired as HC so quickly and I think one of the main reasons it happened was because Jerry Liked him but also because Jerry did not want to lose out on what he viewed as another Sean Payton situation

And for those that say laud jason for so many things without acknowledging his short comings or try to belittle them to defend him...Even Jerry Jones has said he is a coach in training and has had speed bumps.

So I don't have a problem if people don't like him or want someone else to be the HC because I feel the same way.

What I do not like is those that take the direct and dramatic opposite of acting like he does no right and others think he does no wrong. You are basically the bizzarro of some of the guys you argue with on this topic.

Really good post, BP.

And I'll take the opportunity to say again that there are plenty of valid reasons to want to move on from Jason Garrett. After four consecutive seasons of missing the playoffs, it'd be silly to try to argue otherwise.

And, yes, this coming season is borrowed time for a guy who'd have been fired on more than half of the other 31 NFL rosters out there after last season.

 

[erod]

So you were claiming that going into the 2010 year, right? Just a few months after the second NFCE win in three years and the first playoff win in over a decade, you were saying that no one could win with that terrible roster?

Right.

Just look at the '09 roster.

Gurode, Davis, Kosier, Flozell, Barber, Crayton, Roy Williams, Newman, Hamlin, Carpenter, Brooking, James, Olshansky, Coleman, Ball, Barber, Felix....

Old and declining. Romo was already covering up for its fatal flaws.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I understand this will be not politically correct, but I see no value for the cheerleader having a microphone or even being in this studio when they are talking football.

 

[TheFinisher]

If there's to be an interesting discussion here, at some point you're going to have to make an actual argument. Nobody wants to hear me keep replying that you're just making things up you don't feel strongly enough about to actually support.

After having a coach that the team quit playing hard for...That is a actual positive trait to have..or a positive trait to have in ANY HC.

I will give you another one.

Prior to Jason taking over as HC...How many times did Jerry Jones draft an Offensive Linemen in the first round? That was not just coincidence.

I have also noticed we have started getting rid of overpriced players who no longer produce to their pay or have them restructure...that started after Jason became HC.

Look..I don't like Jason...well I should say I don't like him being the HC anymore. I think he should have been canned this last season.

I don't think he should have been hired as HC so quickly and I think one of the main reasons it happened was because Jerry Liked him but also because Jerry did not want to lose out on what he viewed as another Sean Payton situation

And for those that say laud jason for so many things without acknowledging his short comings or try to belittle them to defend him...Even Jerry Jones has said he is a coach in training and has had speed bumps.

So I don't have a problem if people don't like him or want someone else to be the HC because I feel the same way.

What I do not like is those that take the direct and dramatic opposite of acting like he does no right and others think he does no wrong. You are basically the bizzarro of some of the guys you argue with on this topic.

Jerry has always placed an emphasis on the OLine. He didn't need to spend first round picks on it because he had the best line in football in the 90s. When those guys were done he drafted a pro bowl LT fairly high, drafted a pro bowl center shortly after fairly high, and shelled out big money in FA to fill the other spots. Our line again became one of the the better units in the NFL for a good stretch of time. The draft picks we had to try and replace them didn't pan out, coupled with our tight salary cap, forced Jerry to spend some high picks on getting that unit back to becoming a strength. The narrative that Jason Garrett values OL more than Jerry is a nice fairy tale for Garrett supporters, but the truth is Jerry has put a priority on having a good OL for most of his ownership. Whether he did it through FA or the draft doesn't matter if the unit was good.

Secondly, the Jones' have always been the ones who handle contracts. I don't believe for a second that Jason Garrett all of a sudden has become the HC who came along and changed that. You want to credit the team for getting rid of overpriced vets, then that credit should be given to Stephen and Jerry... But it fits the Garrett agenda to point towards him as the savior of our contract purging. Yea, the same coach who was stripped of his play calling by Jerry despite kicking and screaming the whole way through.

Garrett is not head man in charge, especially not when it comes to coach hiring or player contracts/selection. This is Jerry's team, but we only like to credit him with the screw ups so it doesn't for the narrative. JG is the savior who is changing the structure of the organization... Or something like that.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I'd like to address the quitting on Wade comments.

I factor in several; things other than the board comments of what happened.

First, Jerry brought in Garrett and the team was divided by the actions of the GM. Garrett was promoted, and even the folks here new Garrett would be the heir apparent. You have to know both Wade and everyone else knew this was coming at some point. I think this is where you mention how difficult was it for Phillips to continue sharing the head coach duties, getting all the blame and really none of the praise since Garrett had no real responsibility in the eyes of the fanbase, press and GM.

There was a radio program with Crayton and another former receiver who mentioned how the game plan changed after Phillips was moved out and Garrett took over that season.. They spoke to how the team opened up the passing game. Now you can take this as a disgruntled former player or players dishing dirt on a guy that fired them.

But what should be the take away is Garrett was responsible for half of the team, and the team structure created by Jones divided the locker room.

Losing the team is a lot easier if the GM is undermining your authority by naming an assistant head coach - and I understand the notion of keeping your assets and this is a maneuver to protect Garrett - and sending a message to the players in reality only the4 GM is in charge.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Jerry has always placed an emphasis on the OLine. He didn't need to spend first round picks on it because he had the best line in football in the 90s. When those guys were done he drafted a pro bowl LT fairly high, drafted a pro bowl center shortly after fairly high, and shelled out big money in FA to fill the other spots. Our line again became one of the the better units in the NFL for a good stretch of time. The draft picks we had to try and replace them didn't pan out, coupled with our tight salary cap, forced Jerry to spend some high picks on getting that unit back to becoming a strength. The narrative that Jason Garrett values OL more than Jerry is a nice fairy tale for Garrett supporters, but the truth is Jerry has put a priority on having a good OL for most of his ownership. Whether he did it through FA or the draft doesn't matter if the unit was good.

Moving the goal posts and making up imaginary arguments (even with yourself) seems to be a thing with you.

FACT...I said Jerry never drafted a Olinemen in the first round until Jerry became HC. That is a FACT. I said nothing about the other stuff you brought up because I did not need to do so. I never said they did not draft olinemen in other rounds...They have to an abysmal record. From 2000 to 2010 (year before they started drafting first round Olinemen) they have had a total of 2 Olinemen that have made a good number of starters at a quality level at Starter. Gurode and Free. TEN YEARS and only 2 quality starters. They completely sucked at drafting Offensive Linemen and still did not draft any in the first round during that time period before. The reason they put too much money into FA Olinemen is because they sucked at drafting them and refused to take one in the first round. They have draft three first round Offensive linemen since he has been HC. It is not a coincidence no matter how much you think it is.

Secondly, the Jones' have always been the ones who handle contracts. I don't believe for a second that Jason Garrett all of a sudden has become the HC who came along and changed that. You want to credit the team for getting rid of overpriced vets, then that credit should be given to Stephen and Jerry... But it fits the Garrett agenda to point towards him as the savior of our contract purging. Yea, the same coach who was stripped of his play calling by Jerry despite kicking and screaming the whole way through.

First off...you make yourself look foolish by calling Garrett A savior when arguing with anyone that does not feel the same about him as you do. It is Hyperbole and foolish. Secondly nobody in here claimed that anyone else handled the actual contracts. Again you making up arguments yet again. What is FACT is they have gotten rid of more over aged, under performing and over paid veterans then they have in a long time. This is not a coincidence.

Garrett is not head man in charge, especially not when it comes to coach hiring or player contracts/selection. This is Jerry's team, but we only like to credit him with the screw ups so it doesn't for the narrative. JG is the savior who is changing the structure of the organization... Or something like that.

Again with the savior hyperbole talk and again with making up arguments that were not being made in the first place. Everyone knows this is Jerry's team. Everyone knows that Jerry has the final say in all things. However Jerry does indeed listen to his Head Coaches. How this team goes about FA and the Draft has indeed changed over the last few years.

Just because you don't like Garrett does not mean he does not do some good things. Just because someone says something positive about him does not mean that they think he is great and that he is a savior only willing to defend him against all attacks. That is silly.

But please continue with the hyperbole if it makes you feel good.

I will add...you have to take things to a absurd level of silly to get me to defend the ginger as much as I have in this thread. Congrats.

 

[TheFinisher]

Moving the goal posts and making up imaginary arguments (even with yourself) seems to be a thing with you.

FACT...I said Jerry never drafted a Olinemen in the first round until Jerry became HC. That is a FACT. I said nothing about the other stuff you brought up because I did not need to do so. I never said they did not draft olinemen in other rounds...They have to an abysmal record. From 2000 to 2010 (year before they started drafting first round Olinemen) they have had a total of 2 Olinemen that have made a good number of starters at a quality level at Starter. Gurode and Free. TEN YEARS and only 2 quality starters. They completely sucked at drafting Offensive Linemen and still did not draft any in the first round during that time period before. The reason they put too much money into FA Olinemen is because they sucked at drafting them and refused to take one in the first round. They have draft three first round Offensive linemen since he has been HC. It is not a coincidence no matter how much you think it is.

Flozell Adams, Leonard Davis and Kyle Kosier were not quality starters for us during that span? They absolutely were. Thus the need to draft first round olineman was not pressing. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[khiladi]

Every head coach in the NFL outside of Garrett...

 

[khiladi]

LOL. Some good replies in this thread.

Pretty funny to suggest that somehow because of Jerry, a poor coach is better for us than a good coach.

Yeah, it's quite comical that going trait for Garrett is that he can get the most under Jerry. If the circumstances on other hand were favorable, Jason Garrett wouldn't be the choice. Got to love the logic.

What was Wade's record under Jerry again?

 

[khiladi]

I think Belichick is in a class by himself. He reminds me of Landry. He has a system that works and his system is bigger than the players:

Except Landry didn't pull a Spygate...

 

[khiladi]

Jason Garrett's GM ship was clearly evident in that Roy Williams trade that blew us three draft picks. Or the Felix Jones one, the guy he pretty much never played when he was running well. I particularly like how he was shocked that we didn't go for Floyd, a 3-4 guy for a 4-3 defense. He's just brilliant.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Flozell Adams, Leonard Davis and Kyle Kosier were not quality starters for us during that span? They absolutely were. Thus the need to draft first round olineman was not pressing. Why is this so hard to understand?

Did you even read what I wrote? I said DRAFTED in that 10 year span. Two of those players were not drafted by us and the other guy was drafted well before that span.

Good grief.

And the reason we brought those guys in was because this team was inept at drafting. And they over paid for most of those FAs which would later put us in cap trouble.

Either way you are still moving goal posts and making arguments that I did not make in the first place.

 

[khiladi]

I love how all the Garrett homers are giving credit to the team for OL, when Garrett was shocked that we went Frederik over Floyd. And also considering we are running a zone-blocking scheme, while Garrett's offensive playbook was using a power-based one, which is why they got Houck. We scrapped Garrett's OL philosophy for a zone-blocking scheme. And Smith was pretty much a no-brainer anyways.

Oh yeah, and that excellent pick of Claiborne, a man corner and Bruce Carter, the latter a 3-4 guy. We jumping all over the place in philosophy. How the hell has Garrett proven himself a GM, when we were selecting players all over the place for different philosophies. Contrary to popular Garrett-homer belief, Jerry brought in experience to surround Garrett for a reason and it's why he's listening to people like Marinelli when players are picked.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I love how all the Garrett homers are giving credit to the team for OL, when Garrett was shocked that we went Frederik over Floyd. And also considering we are running a zone-blocking scheme, while Garrett's offensive playbook was using a power-based one, which is why they got Houck. We scrapped Garrett's OL philosophy for a zone-blocking scheme. And Smith was pretty much a no-brainer anyways.

People can make up any excuse they want.

What they can not change is the fact that prior to Garrett being head Coach..>Jerry Jones and the front office with 6 different coaches did not draft an Olineman in the first round.


Furthermore just because someone makes that as a positive claim to him, whether you agree with it or not, does not mean they are a big garret supporter, does not mean they think he is a savior, does not mean they like him, does not mean they want him to remain as HC nor does it mean they like every other thing about him.

 

[khiladi]

People can make up any excuse they want.

What they can not change is the fact that prior to Garrett being head Coach..>Jerry Jones and the front office with 6 different coaches did not draft an Olineman in the first round.


Furthermore just because someone makes that as a positive claim to him, whether you agree with it or not, does not mean they are a big garret supporter, does not mean they think he is a savior, does not mean they like him, does not mean they want him to remain as HC nor does it mean they like every other thing about him.

And we also scrapped Garrett's power-blocking scheme for a zone blocking scheme. That power-blocking scheme we were running for 5 years until they brought in Callahan. What do you think Garrett was doing during those years? We drafted OL during those years, but they ended up sucking. What do you think we were drafting them for other than for Garrett's philosophy?

They also threw away 3 draft picks for Roy Williams, which they could have used for OL picks. We liked to pick TEs on a regular basis wasting picks on them. The two-tight end formation everybody kept raving about wasn't anybody but Garrett's.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

And we also scrapped Garrett's power-blocking scheme for a zone blocking scheme. That power-blocking scheme we were running for 5 years until they brought in Callahan. What do you think Garrett was doing during those years? We drafted OL during those years, but they ended up sucking. What do you think we were drafting them for other than for Garrett's philosophy?

They also threw away 3 draft picks for Roy Williams, which they could have used for OL picks. We liked to pick TEs on a regular basis wasting picks on them. The two-tight end formation everybody kept raving about wasn't anybody but Garrett's.

Not making excuses for the Williams Trade.
Not making excuses for the Two TE system.

My argument is, and only has been, that the drafting of Olinemen in the first round has changed ONLY after Garrett took over as HC. That is a FACT no matter how many other arguments you or others make. And it is my opinion that he is part of the reason Jerry changed his mind and started drafting Olinemen in the first round.

It does not mean I like him, does not mean I will make arguments in his defense over a MULTITUDE of his short comings...heck if you look in another thread I am arguing about us losing the GB game because of him.

Now you can be all upset over garrett all you want. You can have all of the goofy anti garrett Sig images you want.

Fact remains...we did not draft Olinemen in the first round under a number of coaches over a number of years...Until after Garrett became HC.

Go on and argue it, it won't change the FACT.

 

[khiladi]

It's hilarious how people attribute natural turnover to some mythical Garrett rebuilding process. We had to draft Smith, because Flozell was done and we needed a left tackle to protect Romo's blind side. Our pick of Frederick was Jerry Jones over-ruling the board based upon Kiffen and Marinelli. Frederick was worked out by Callahan. Plus, we needed him to replace Costa whom Garrett praised to no end as a starter and Costa sucked. This year, we had 3 defensive players, our 4th player being OL. All three of them were taken.

Our turnover is right there with the rest of the league.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

It's hilarious how people attribute natural turnover to some mythical Garrett rebuilding process. We had to draft Smith, because Flozell was done and we needed a left tackle to protect Romo's blind side. Our pick of Frederick was Jerry Jones over-ruling the board based upon Kiffen and Marinelli. Frederick was worked out by Callahan. This year, we had 3 defensive players, our 4th player being OL. All three of them were taken.

Keep arguing...the fact won't change of what I have said.

 

[khiladi]

Keep arguing...the fact won't change of what I have said.

act
"They have draft three first round Offensive linemen since he has been HC. It is not a coincidence no matter how much you think it is."

The fact is we drafted them. The fact is, you claiming it's essentially because Jason has been HC is what I am disputing.