If you think losing = higher draft picks = more future success

DogFace

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Thank you.

So if we get good and nothing changed,as far as leadership will you stop being a "fan". How exactly would you handle that if we somehow got good without your powerful stance against the team?
Can you please actually answer the questions. I am being serious. How would you handle that if we somehow got good without your powerful stance against the team?
Can you please actually answer the questions. I being serious.
You're not answering this master intellect
 

Beast_from_East

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I bet if a poll was taken, the majority of the fan base would take a 0-16 season if it guaranteed Garrett would get fired.

Yea, I know Jerry is a problem too, but he is not going anywhere since he owns the freaking team.....................next best alternative is to get a head coach that can win despite Jerry............that is a proven winner, not some lackey learning on the job.
 

TrailBlazer

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The higher your draft position, the higher the possibility of finding the next Sean lee's and Dez Bryant's of the world. We're not going to be relevant in the near future. If we lose to the giants, I suggest tanking for a top ten draft pick.
 

DogFace

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For there to be a 'debate' you would have to actually bring something other than "I sure hope they win! Go Cowboys!"

This is what I figured would happen. Faced with a question you can't answer ignore. Great argument you make. Please don't threaten to unfriend me or not follow me.
You have trouble holding your own in an internet discussion.
Answer the question.
What will you do if we get good without the changes you demand? Will you jump back on or stay consistent ?
 

TwoDeep3

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Just how confident are you, that the Cowboys, with their current GM and front office, would select good players with those high draft picks anyway?


This is one reason I've never bought into the notion that it would be better for the Cowboys to lose and get high draft picks, rather than win and stay in the playoff race. There's NO guarantee that those high draft picks would be put to good use.

Another reason: Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell were drafted in the 1st round. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Jason Witten was drafted in the 3rd round. High draft positioning is really overrated.

Anecdotal instances seem to be the excuse du jour for politicians in regard to legislation.

Troy Aikman is an example of a first over-all pick that succeeded. This game can be played all day long and in the end there is a reason teams rank players for the draft. That reason is backed up mostly by paychecks.

So if we were to boil down the draft, it is about slotting for the team's financial outlay to acquire said player.

The only point I find has merit of the tired argument you illustrated is this management and how they fare with picking winners and losers.

But there is a core issue here that goes beyond drafting that is as evident as the hubcaps on Dolly Parton.

Until a core change has been made in management, and their world view in regard to the NFL changes, playing for the high picks is like putting your money on the crap table.

Sometimes even the unlucky can hit a winner.

But drafting players with less talent because of the management - even with the coming, "Hey dude, but what about Romo," arguments, it is a speedy way to find mediocrity as we have witnessed for most of the last seventeen years.
 

Stash

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So if we get good and nothing changed,as far as leadership will you stop being a "fan". How exactly would you handle that if we somehow got good without your powerful stance against the team?
Can you please actually answer the questions. I am being serious. How would you handle that if we somehow got good without your powerful stance against the team?
Can you please actually answer the questions. I being serious.
You're not answering this master intellect

I will never stop being a fan. I'm a Cowboys fan forever.

They're my team.

They were at 1-15, during the 90's, through three consecutive 5-11 seasons, and I'm still a fan through this downturn too.

Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

And if your scenario were to come true?

I'd be happy to be wrong about things.

I've been wrong plenty of times before and I will be again.

I can handle that.
 

Beast_from_East

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For example?

How about a head coach that has actually taken a team to the SuperBowl, not just read about it......................like Lovie Smith, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgreen, Bill Cowher.

Those are the caliber of head coaches we should be looking at, not some QB coach on some scrub team that has never set in the captain's chair before.
 

Red Dragon

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How about a head coach that has actually taken a team to the SuperBowl, not just read about it......................like Lovie Smith, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgreen, Bill Cowher.

If I'm not mistaken, not a single NFL head coach has ever won a Super Bowl with one team and then gone on to win another Super Bowl with another team. Success often doesn't just follow like that.
 

Reverend Conehead

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If I'm not mistaken, not a single NFL head coach has ever won a Super Bowl with one team and then gone on to win another Super Bowl with another team. Success often doesn't just follow like that.

Didn't Don Shula do it with the Colts and then later with the Dolphins (twice)?
 

SWG9

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Are you trying to make yourself look bad by giving bad examples? The Spurs have consistently won and outdrafted other teams with late first round and second round picks, which are like sixth round picks in the NFL. The Colts have won 9 out of the last 11 AFC South titles so they have also kept their team relevant with lower picks. The 49ers were a miserable team for a decade and are an example of a poor rebuilding job, not a good one. Please try again.

You keep mentioning the 49ers as this terrible rebuilding example over and over again, but it doesn't really hold water.

Dallas's average record from 2000-2010 was 8-8 right on the nose.

San Francisco's was 7-9.

They both won one playoff game during that time frame, and the 49ers, of course, have been an contending team for the last three years and are primed to be good for a long while yet.

As "miserable" as the 49ers were, they were -- on average -- one game worse than Dallas on a yearly basis.
 

ShiningStar

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Just how confident are you, that the Cowboys, with their current GM and front office, would select good players with those high draft picks anyway?


This is one reason I've never bought into the notion that it would be better for the Cowboys to lose and get high draft picks, rather than win and stay in the playoff race. There's NO guarantee that those high draft picks would be put to good use.

Another reason: Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell were drafted in the 1st round. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Jason Witten was drafted in the 3rd round. High draft positioning is really overrated.

i woudnt say its possible, but i would like to see one draft pick stop listening this coaching staff and start making players play and hold them accountable.
 

Super_Kazuya

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You keep mentioning the 49ers as this terrible rebuilding example over and over again, but it doesn't really hold water.

Dallas's average record from 2000-2010 was 8-8 right on the nose.

San Francisco's was 7-9.

They both won one playoff game during that time frame, and the 49ers, of course, have been an contending team for the last three years and are primed to be good for a long while yet.

As "miserable" as the 49ers were, they were -- on average -- one game worse than Dallas on a yearly basis.

After you manipulate the numbers to fit your argument, yes. If you start with their rock bottom 2-14 season in 2004 as a logical point of rebuilding, then no. In truth, neither of us knows when they started or even if they ever did at some point say "we're rebuilding". All I know is if you did, and then you miss the playoffs 9 years in a row, then you failed miserably -- even if you eventually do get it right.

Even after that, and all their picks, they sit a nice 1 game above our non-rebuilding franchise. Nice job, 49ers!
 

SWG9

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After you manipulate the numbers to fit your argument, yes. If you start with their rock bottom 2-14 season in 2004 as a logical point of rebuilding, then no. In truth, neither of us knows when they started or even if they ever did at some point say "we're rebuilding". All I know is if you did, and then you miss the playoffs 9 years in a row, then you failed miserably -- even if you eventually do get it right.

Even after that, and all their picks, they sit a nice 1 game above our non-rebuilding franchise. Nice job, 49ers!

I'm using the "decade of rebuilding" time frame that you've repeatedly mentioned. You want me to start with 2004 and go to present day and include their Superbowl appearance? I have a feeling the numbers will look even worse. You're the one manipulating the stats here buddy, not me.

The simple fact of the matter is the 49ers spent nowhere near a decade rebuilding. They had 2 truly awful seasons and a handful of mediocre seasons post Young/Garcia, and as another poster pointed out, that laid the ground work for the team they have now.

Which I would take over the present edition of the Cowboys in a New York minute.
 

Red Dragon

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Many NFL fans exaggerate the relative value of the ranking of a draft pick. They treat the No. 11 overall pick in the first round in the NFL as if it is somehow enormously, vastly superior to the No. 18 overall pick in the first round.

Is there a difference? Yes. Is it really greatly substantial? No.
 
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