If you want to make a splash

ehwqkbmg

Active Member
Messages
243
Reaction score
159
I’d give a 5th or wait till he gets cut.
As mentioned before, the Seahawks will FOR SURE cut or trade a future hall of famer still in his prime for a mid/late pick! It will happen!
 

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
We don't neeeeed Earl Thomas.....not if they didn't want to pay Barry Church. To me...its foolish. Our DB's have the arrow pointed up and the pass rush if the organization does not screw it up losing David Irving. A few select pieces and we are set.

To be clear. WE DO HAVE THE MONEY for Earl, and NO WAY I'd give more than one of our 4ths....but I would not do it because he is an 'ok' player with avg players around him and Woods shot get the start with Frazier IMO with a drafted safety in the mix.
 

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
Best Darn Mock and Free Agency Fix PERIOD!

IMO we are set with our Roster for the next half decade allowing maximum flexibility with future drafts if we don't do something stupid or take on dumb contracts as many of our fan base tend to suggest annually we free agency comes about. This is the one thing I like about Steven Jones. He's not busting our budget to pay too much for other folks former stars.


Free Agent Acquisition
(
Swing Tackle ) Andrea Smith 6'4 335 3 yrs / 12 million 8g { 3SB - 1, 3, RB1 -4 } $2.0 Cap Hit

SonnyBono's 2018 Pre-Combine Bowl Mock Draft:


Trade:
w/ Cleveland PICK: 19 for PICKS: 33, 65, 193

1st Round Pick ( 33 ) OG Will Hernandez 6'3 340 UTEP

The very definition of Dak-Friendly. A mauler in the run game who can keep him upright.
2nd Round Pick ( 50 ) DT Tim Settle 6'3 335 Virgina Tech
Big, strong and agile...can become Fletcher Cox-like player and only a sophomore. I think he will have a better career than Vea.
2nd Round Pick ( 63 ) WR D.J. Chark 6'3 192 LSU
A tall lanky wideout who is a down the field threat but who has exceptional RAC abilities.
3rd Round Pick ( 80 ) RB Ito Smith 5'9 195 Southern Miss ( Dunbar )
Specialty back with special teams ability who is also tough and durable enough to carry inside.
4th Round Pick ( 112 ) SS Kyzir White 6'3 220 W. Virginia ( +5th safety )

Our Kam...
4th Round Pick ( 132comp ) LB Chris Worley 6'2 230 Ohio St Durant
Durant's Replacement.
4th Round Pick ( 134comp ) TE Troy Fumagalli 6'6 252 Wisconsin

4th Tightend...a Witten understudy.
5th Round Pick ( 168comp ) OLB Uchenna Nwosu 6'3 242 USC Wilber
Wilber's Replacement
5th Round Pick ( 169comp ) CB JaMarcus King 6'2 18 South Carolina ( ps )
5th Corner....a tool for our new secondary coach. Our Richard Sherman
6th Round Pick ( 192 ) OT Brett Toth 6'6 306 Army
2 year project.
7th Round Pick ( 225 ) OG/C Larry Allen Jr 6'4 289 Harvard
Competition for Cooper for swing Guard slot.....legacy, legacy, legacy


2018 SonnyBono Projected Depth Chart:


Special Teams: ( 3 ) Bailey, Johnson, Ladocouer


Offense: 24


QB ( 2 ) Prescott, Rush
RB ( 3 ) Elliot, Smith, ( Smith )
FB ( 1 ) Smith

WR ( 6 ) Bryant, ( Chark ), Williams, Beasley, Brown, Switzer
TE ( 4 ) Gathers, Witten, Swain, Jarwin
OL ( 8 ) Smith, ( Hernadez ), Freddrick, Martin, Collins, ( Smith ), Cooper, Green OR Bell

Defense: 26

DE ( 4 ) Mayowa, ( Tapper ), OR Gregory ( R )
Lawrence, Charleton ( L )
DL ( 3 ) Irvin, Crawford , Jones

DT ( 3 ) ( Settle ), Collins, Ash
LB ( 5 ) Smith, Lee, Hitchens, Wilson, ( Nwosu ), ( Young )
SS ( 2 ) Frazier(SS) , White,(SS/OLB)
FS ( 3 ) Wood (FS/Slot), ( Huff ) (FS ), Heath(S)

CB ( 6 ) Awuzie, Jones (FS/TE), Lewis, Scandrick, Brown, Johnson OR White
 
Last edited:

DanA

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,961
Reaction score
5,780
Isn't pick 33 a 2nd round pick?

Six Smith's?
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
We don't neeeeed Earl Thomas.....not if they didn't want to pay Barry Church. To me...its foolish. Our DB's have the arrow pointed up and the pass rush if the organization does not screw it up losing David Irving. A few select pieces and we are set.

To be clear. WE DO HAVE THE MONEY for Earl, and NO WAY I'd give more than one of our 4ths....but I would not do it because he is an 'ok' player with avg players around him and Woods shot get the start with Frazier IMO with a drafted safety in the mix.

Did you just say Thomas is an "ok" player..?
 

RustyBourneHorse

Well-Known Member
Messages
36,527
Reaction score
42,320
https://i.giphy.com/media/h72zN9q7AmuEE/giphy.mp4
giphy.mp4
 

big dog cowboy

THE BIG DOG
Staff member
Messages
96,954
Reaction score
99,063
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
We don't neeeeed Earl Thomas.....not if they didn't want to pay Barry Church.

To be clear. WE DO HAVE THE MONEY for Earl, and NO WAY I'd give more than one of our 4ths....but I would not do it because he is an 'ok' player
Thomas >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Church. One is a All Pro and the other is an average S.

Since when is Thomas an "'ok" player?
 

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
Thomas >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Church. One is a All Pro and the other is an average S.

Since when is Thomas an "'ok" player?
And I say he's overrated....not an ALL-Pro at all any longer.....he made the Pro Bowl ( popularity contest ) with Church having better numbers.
This is a perfect example of the typical Cowboy fan who devalued players who play(ed) for the Cowboys and over value other folks free agents.

Here are the last 4 years for each player....

Earl Thomas 5'10 202 Age: 28 years
2014 Gms ( 16 ) 97 tkls 2 tfl 1 ints 3 ff 6 pd
2015 Gms ( 16 ) 64 tkls 2 tfl 5 ints 1 ff 8 pd
2016 Gms ( 11 ) 48 tkls 1 tfl 2 ints 0 ff 10 pd
2017 Gms ( 14 ) 88 tkls 3 tfl 2 ints 1 ff 7 pd
Totals ( 57 ) 297 tkls 8 tfl 10 ints 5 ff 31 pd

Barry Church 6'2 220 Age: 29
2014 Gms ( 16 ) 97 tkls 5 tfl 2 ints 1 ff 6 pd
2015 Gms ( 15 ) 117 tkls 8 tfl 0 ints 1 ff 4 pd
2016 Gms ( 12 ) 85 tkls 5 tfl 2 ints 1 ff 4 pd
2017 Gms ( 16 ) 74 tkls 4 tfl 4 ints 0 ff 8 pd
Totals ( 59 ) 373 tkls 22 tfl 8 ints 3ff 22 pd

Earl Thomas is a media hyped above avg player who when playing with a excellent pass rush and above avg secondary mates became an All-Pro on the leagues best defense. Seattle is avg now and so is he. Church is the bigger man and had the better 2017; and over the last 4 years he has almost 25% tackles over that period. And in 2017 Church had his best year against the pass playing out of the box more than with the Cowboys nabbing 4 ints and 8 passes defended coming up big in big moments.

This is the reality of it....not that Thomas is "All Pro" and Church simply "avg"
 

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
Did you just say Thomas is an "ok" player..?
yep...i sure did. For the 8.5 million Seattle is due to pay him....NO FREAKING WAY would I do this if the salary is even close to that.
And if the Cowboys were unwilling to give Church 4 years 26 million when Earl got 5 years 45....well.....I don't know what to tell you.

Read above on the numbers. FYI the year Earl got that contract Church had 135 tackles 10 tfl, 1 int and 3 ff with 6 pd.....as good or better than any Earl Thomas year. The INT ( 5 ) for Thomas that year is a stat that gets a player paid but is often over rated when you are talking 5 occurrences over 16 games with 2 in garbage time.....

Xavier Woods should be allow to develop and grow.....the arrow is pointed up on Frazier and I'd draft Kyzier White with the 80th pick. Move Jones to corner and match him up on TE's and Long Wideouts in the Nickle and with an improved pass rush playing together from game one....we'll be fine in the secondary.

If Earl will play for 3 years 18 milllion.....bring him on. Cut Heath or Huff
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
yep...i sure did. For the 8.5 million Seattle is due to pay him....NO FREAKING WAY would I do this if the salary is even close to that.
And if the Cowboys were unwilling to give Church 4 years 26 million when Earl got 5 years 45....well.....I don't know what to tell you.

Read above on the numbers. FYI the year Earl got that contract Church had 135 tackles 10 tfl, 1 int and 3 ff with 6 pd.....as good or better than any Earl Thomas year. The INT ( 5 ) for Thomas that year is a stat that gets a player paid but is often over rated when you are talking 5 occurrences over 16 games with 2 in garbage time.....

Xavier Woods should be allow to develop and grow.....the arrow is pointed up on Frazier and I'd draft Kyzier White with the 80th pick. Move Jones to corner and match him up on TE's and Long Wideouts in the Nickle and with an improved pass rush playing together from game one....we'll be fine in the secondary.

If Earl will play for 3 years 18 milllion.....bring him on. Cut Heath or Huff
The best FS we've seen the last decade is an "ok" player? I've heard it all now.

8.5M for ET is pocket change.

And now you're comparing him to Church? So when you compare safeties you just look at their stats? Man do you I guess, but let me just tell you that it's not the smart thing to do.

Also 5 INTs to 2 INTs is a gigantic difference, but thats not even remotely why Thomas got paid. He's one of the best safeties the leagye has seen.
 
Last edited:

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
The best FS we've seen the last decade is an "ok" player? I've heard it all now.

8.5M for ET is pocket change.

And now you're comparing him to Church? So when you compare safeties you just look at their stats? Man do you I guess, but let me just tell you that it's not the smart thing to do.

Also 5 INTs to 2 INTs is a gigantic difference, but thats not even remotely why Thomas got paid. He's one of the best safeties the leagye has seen.
NO....I look at football...and that's why I say what I say. YOU can say he is the best of our era if you like. I say he has been a very good player and is now only slightly above avg and not much better than Barry Church if at all. He's more of a cover guy while Church in Dallas was in the box.
The fact is that if the Dallas Cowboys had actually won a Championship we would not even be having this back and forth.
We see this EVERY SINGLE YEAR -- when a team makes the playoffs and wins they put players in bowl often they lose those players to other teams when they won't pay. Those players are then over paid by other teams . 3 out of 4 times the player declines and half the time drastically so.
Its not how you build a team for consistent success.

I'm at least glad you said 8.5 million is pocket change. I know you didn't mean that, but in NFL money for a "GREAT" player it would be and more often than not "MOST" Cowboy fans act like NFL money is their jobs money and they are paying it.

Read the numbers again and again and wonder why they are what they are Quincy.

But to answer your question....I actually WATCH Football and have watched over half of the Hawks games for the last 4 years. IMO he is not some super duper Ed Reed type guy. We can agree to disagree if you think so. If you are not pass defending the ball, intercepting the ball, and tackling people at much greater rate than anyone else considered 'good'....how are you great?

As as it seems you are poo pooing Barry Church.
Question.
If Church is tackling more people more times and more often for more yards behind the line of scrimmage for loss, and intercepting the ball to win games just as often, and pass defending at about the same rate....explain to me "HOW" the guy you pick whomever he is is BETTER.....??? Awards? Pro Bowls?
Again....if that's it and not specifically the play on the field, as I have said, "WINNING" tends to put players in the award conversation and once there incumbents tend to stay long after they should not. SEE: Jason Witten.
Thats not an attack on Jason NORE like some do I think he should retire ) And Jason is on the books until he quits for 6.5 million. I'd like that to be 5 million and his snaps cut by 20 to 25 in favor of Rico, but im just fine paying him the 6.5. I'd give Earl 6.5 for his experience and dump Heath. But 8.5 is an over pay that's not needed when Xavier Woods is on the come.....We went young for a reason.
 
Last edited:

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
The best FS we've seen the last decade is an "ok" player? I've heard it all now.

8.5M for ET is pocket change.

And now you're comparing him to Church? So when you compare safeties you just look at their stats? Man do you I guess, but let me just tell you that it's not the smart thing to do.

Also 5 INTs to 2 INTs is a gigantic difference, but thats not even remotely why Thomas got paid. He's one of the best safeties the leagye has seen.
That year ( 2014 ) 2 of those INT's were in garbage time and later he picked 2 in one game....1 for a TD and won that game. But in '2017' Earl didn't have 5 Int's my friend; he had 2. Barry Church had 4 INT's and won a game. ( giggantic? )
If you are going to do this my friend.....argue honestly. FYI....past performance is no indication of future success in an aging player and stats are in fact the measure of the game Quincy. Not the only.....but primarily.

Safety play in the NFL over the last 5 years has been horrible. Earl did not make All-Pro 2 years ago, and jumped back into the conversation with a 2nd team honor this year due to a good game on TV and the bad safety play I just commented on as his measure. But if you
are expecting some huge utterly game changing difference from the 2018 Earl Thomas.....
you are mistaken IMO.

I actually watch the games. These are not simply 'feelings'
"IF" we paid him 8.5 million dollars you would soon hear horrible cries of how stuuuuupid Jerry was to pay this guy in decline. And it would only be due to above avg play. I saw it 1st hand with Brandon Carr even after he took a pay cut and played for 3.5 million. Expectations change the game.
He is only slightly above avg. That, again, is MY OPINION based on what I've seen the last 2 years.
And to be 100% clear....this is NOT NOT NOT a Cap Concern. We have the Money to pay who we want. I think we would over pay at 6.5 and I'd be ok with it simply because he is a savvy vet who can still play and an upgrade over Jeff Heath who had 71 tackles and actually had more INT's than Thomas in 2017 with 6 pd to 7; but with respect to your point....Heath is no Earl Thomas even with close stats
 
Last edited:

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
Isn't pick 33 a 2nd round pick?

Six Smith's?
yes...the 5th year option is over rated and we save the money too. A fair price to pay to get that 3rd round pick and enables me to take Christian Kirk, James Washington, D.J. Chark, or Gallup with that pick at 64.
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
That year ( 2014 ) 2 of those INT's were in garbage time and later he picked 2 in one game....1 for a TD and won that game. But in '2017' Earl didn't have 5 Int's my friend; he had 2. Barry Church had 4 INT's and won a game. ( giggantic? )
If you are going to do this my friend.....argue honestly. FYI....past performance is no indication of future success in an aging player and stats are in fact the measure of the game Quincy. Not the only.....but primarily.

Safety play in the NFL over the last 5 years has been horrible. Earl did not make All-Pro 2 years ago, and jumped back into the conversation with a 2nd team honor this year due to a good game on TV and the bad safety play I just commented on as his measure. But if you
are expecting some huge utterly game changing difference from the 2018 Earl Thomas.....
you are mistaken IMO.

I actually watch the games. These are not simply 'feelings'
"IF" we paid him 8.5 million dollars you would soon hear horrible cries of how stuuuuupid Jerry was to pay this guy in decline. And it would only be due to above avg play. I saw it 1st hand with Brandon Carr even after he took a pay cut and played for 3.5 million. Expectations change the game.
He is only slightly above avg. That, again, is MY OPINION based on what I've seen the last 2 years.
And to be 100% clear....this is NOT NOT NOT a Cap Concern. We have the Money to pay who we want. I think we would over pay at 6.5 and I'd be ok with it simply because he is a savvy vet who can still play and an upgrade over Jeff Heath who had 71 tackles and actually had more INT's than Thomas in 2017 with 6 pd to 7; but with respect to your point....Heath is no Earl Thomas even with close stats

That's on you man.

I refuse to believe you watch the games if this is your analysis.

Seems like you just boxscore scout. I'm just letting you know that he's one of the best FSs we've seen this century and comparing him to Church is beyond silly.

Also comparing him to church is stupid in the first place consideing they don't even play the same position lol.

"Stats arent the only but primarily measure of the game" WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW you're talking about a safett for God's sake. You would prefer them to not be on the stat sheet because that means theyre covering their guy and the big uglies up front are taking care of their job.

Also it's really funny you try to use stats, yet you dont mention passes deflections, which would be the best stat to use haha. Thomas has 7, 6, 9, 11, 8, 9, 10, & 6 in a shortened season.

...church has 0, 0, 0, 6, 6, 0, 4, and 8.

If you're not going to watch the games and only use stats, then at least dont cherry pick them. It looks bad.

IMO you need to ask professionals on their opinion of Thomas or ask Seahawk fans that have watched him play for years.

In 2016 with Thomas in the game ths Seahawks allowed a 61.6 passer rating when throwing 20+ yards on 42 attempts. They allowed 2 touchdowns on those throws and had 2 INTs.

Without Thomas teams again attempted 32 passes beyond 20 yards, throwing 4 touchdowns and only 1 interception giving up a passer rating of 112 WHICH IS DOUBLE WHAT THEY GAVE UP WITH THOMAS ON THE FIELD. Maybe youve watched a couple of their games over the past two years, but it's very obvious just how elite Thomas is and how he transforms a defense. Seahawks were 8-3-1 with Thomas that year and were 2-2 without him.

They were the NFL best defense before he went down allowing only 17 points per game. After that they allowed 24.9 points. Thats more than a TD per game difference.
 
Last edited:

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,925
Reaction score
64,353
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
you have to trade for earl Thomas. Make it happen and the secondary will be improved. I don’t care if he’s 29. He’s a monster and a difference maker.

And he wants to be here

Maybe, but in general that's not a good strategy.

Jerry tried chasing Star players past their peak for many years and it didn't work.

Jerry had the same mindset as many fans. It's the one player away approach.
 

QuincyCarterEra

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,324
Reaction score
10,736
So we've come to the conclusion that usi
That's on you man.

I refuse to believe you watch the games if this is your analysis.

Seems like you just boxscore scout. I'm just letting you know that he's one of the best FSs we've seen this century and comparing him to Church is beyond silly.

Also comparing him to church is stupid in the first place consideing they don't even play the same position lol.

"Stats arent the only but primarily measure of the game" WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW you're talking about a safett for God's sake. You would prefer them to not be on the stat sheet because that means theyre covering their guy and the big uglies up front are taking care of their job.

Also it's really funny you try to use stats, yet you dont mention passes deflections, which would be the best stat to use haha. Thomas has 7, 6, 9, 11, 8, 9, 10, & 6 in a shortened season.

...church has 0, 0, 0, 6, 6, 0, 4, and 8.

If you're not going to watch the games and only use stats, then at least dont cherry pick them. It looks bad.

IMO you need to ask professionals on their opinion of Thomas or ask Seahawk fans that have watched him play for years.

In 2016 with Thomas in the game ths Seahawks allowed a 61.6 passer rating when throwing 20+ yards on 42 attempts. They allowed 2 touchdowns on those throws and had 2 INTs.

Without Thomas teams again attempted 32 passes beyond 20 yards, throwing 4 touchdowns and only 1 interception giving up a passer rating of 112 WHICH IS DOUBLE WHAT THEY GAVE UP WITH THOMAS ON THE FIELD. Maybe youve watched a couple of their games over the past two years, but it's very obvious just how elite Thomas is and how he transforms a defense. Seahawks were 8-3-1 with Thomas that year and were 2-2 without him.

They were the NFL best defense before he went down allowing only 17 points per game. After that they allowed 24.9 points. Thats more than a TD per game difference.
We've established using tackle stats and the like isnt a good measure correct?

We've established that when Thomas got injured that his team goes from being the best defense in the league to one of the worst.

We've established that the main reason for their drop off was that they allowed passes of 20+ yards which is the main assignment for FSs in the NFL.

We've established that Thomas is amongst the tops in the league every year in PDs, which paired with INTs is the best indicator of performance amongst FSs.

I think our discuccion here is done, right? He's one of the best safeties we've seen this century and there's really no debating it. Calling him an "ok" player is silly. "Ok" players dont make a touchdown difference on the defensive side of the ball.

Good conversation, I think we both gained somethijg from it.
 

DanA

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,961
Reaction score
5,780
I think Church is a really good player and one of the most underrated players in the league. He doesn't stack up to a 5 x 1st team All Pro like Thomas but few do. I can understand there's an element of popularity with some of Thomas' selections but he's still a great player and worth well more than 8.5m a season IMO. I think he'd get more like 11m a season.
 

sonnybono3000

New Member
Messages
23
Reaction score
1
That's on you man.

I refuse to believe you watch the games if this is your analysis.

Seems like you just boxscore scout. I'm just letting you know that he's one of the best FSs we've seen this century and comparing him to Church is beyond silly.

Also comparing him to church is stupid in the first place consideing they don't even play the same position lol.

"Stats arent the only but primarily measure of the game" WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW you're talking about a safett for God's sake. You would prefer them to not be on the stat sheet because that means theyre covering their guy and the big uglies up front are taking care of their job.

Also it's really funny you try to use stats, yet you dont mention passes deflections, which would be the best stat to use haha. Thomas has 7, 6, 9, 11, 8, 9, 10, & 6 in a shortened season.

...church has 0, 0, 0, 6, 6, 0, 4, and 8.

If you're not going to watch the games and only use stats, then at least dont cherry pick them. It looks bad.

IMO you need to ask professionals on their opinion of Thomas or ask Seahawk fans that have watched him play for years.

In 2016 with Thomas in the game ths Seahawks allowed a 61.6 passer rating when throwing 20+ yards on 42 attempts. They allowed 2 touchdowns on those throws and had 2 INTs.



Without Thomas teams again attempted 32 passes beyond 20 yards, throwing 4 touchdowns and only 1 interception giving up a passer rating of 112 WHICH IS DOUBLE WHAT THEY GAVE UP WITH THOMAS ON THE FIELD. Maybe youve watched a couple of their games over the past two years, but it's very obvious just how elite Thomas is and how he transforms a defense. Seahawks were 8-3-1 with Thomas that year and were 2-2 without him.

They were the NFL best defense before he went down allowing only 17 points per game. After that they allowed 24.9 points. Thats more than a TD per game difference.

NOPE. As I said.....I watch the games. I know his flaws. You don't seem to and seem enamored over a name.
THe POINT of the stats over the last 4 years was to show that Earls "best" season was 4 years ago. This is "WHY" you just posted "ALL" the numbers. See last year. NUFF SAID. Church had a better year on a better Defense and posted better numbers. Thomas still got 2nd team all pro.....an award. The Jags had a better D and Church was a big part of that. If you can't see that....thats on you.

And per the stats that you posted on earl and the Seahawks. Thomas was not the only player missing that entire team fell apart. Go watch the games as I have when this conversation came up and get back to me. Earl Thomas should not be paid 8.5 million dollars to play with the Cowboys in 2018. Fans would ultimately be disappointed for that number. I've seen it a dozen times. If he'll take 4 years 28-30 million with a 6 million signing bonus and they'll take a 4th round pick fine. 4 years 35-40 million and anything more than that 4th is too much IMO for a guy who is about to be 30.
 
Top