Ike Taylor and MJD discuss Elliott vs Gurley

[mattjames2010]

If you are not sold on Gurley then you are just one of those guys that cant see the forest through the trees. Gurley played on a bad team with a poor line and no QB or passing game to offset anything. The guy is a complete stud, but he doesnt have the offense, QB, or line that Zeke will have here.

I'm not sold on Gurley as being the back he was advertised to be. Not that he won't produce in the NFL, there is a difference. There are Steven Jackson's and then there are Peterson's. One is an exciting player the other respectable and productive, but not special.

Studs don't make excuses, they produce. If he's a special back, he'll find ways to be highly productive despite issues elsewhere on the team.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

After week 8

89 yards, 3.7 YPC
45 yards, 3.8 YPC
66 yards, 2.6 YPC
19 yards, 2.1 YPC
41 yards (had a 34 yard gain), 4.5 YPC
140 yards, 8.8 YPC
48 yards, 2.3 YPC
83 yards, 4.4 YPC

Out of the 12 games he played, he had 5 impressive games. The rest were either average to pretty bad. So no, I'm not entirely impressed with his first season since he hit a massive slump after his streak. It has nothing to do with him not racking up more 100 yard games, it's the drastic drop in what he did on even limited carries.

This is still wait and see with Gurley for me. I still expect the kid to be bogged down by injuries throughout his career like he was ever since high school.

Yeah, against 3 teams who were top 10 in the NFL against the Rush and 1 that was ranked 12. Pretty good defenses but let me ask you, do you feel as if Emmitt Smith was a Great RB? I think the answer is going to be yes but you can correct me if I am wrong. Compare each players Rookie Season. Gurley ran for more yards, had a better AYPC in fewer games with fewer carries. I don't think it's fair to say that Gurley isn't going to be as good or is going to be as good as some of the great backs after his Rookie Season. Just like I don't think it's fair to judge Zeke on what he does with his Rookie Season. Players have to have time to adjust to the NFL. Every player is different and you don't know what that player will actually be until he has time to actually learn the NFL game. JMO

 

[Vinnie2u]

Agreed, and all these cats that are saying he is going to be our savior and take us to the SB are putting undo pressure on him. If Romo goes down or he gets nicked up its going to be a frustrating season for him.

And if he don't meet the lofty expectations they will be calling him a bust and saying stupid Jerry.

 

[mattjames2010]

Yeah, against 3 teams who were top 10 in the NFL against the Rush and 1 that was ranked 12. Pretty good defenses but let me ask you, do you feel as if Emmitt Smith was a Great RB? I think the answer is going to be yes but you can correct me if I am wrong. Compare each players Rookie Season. Gurley ran for more yards, had a better AYPC in fewer games with fewer carries. I don't think it's fair to say that Gurley isn't going to be as good or is going to be as good as some of the great backs after his Rookie Season. Just like I don't think it's fair to judge Zeke on what he does with his Rookie Season. Players have to have time to adjust to the NFL. Every player is different and you don't know what that player will actually be until he has time to actually learn the NFL game. JMO

If it was 1990, I'd have a wait and see approach with Emmitt as well. Nothing I am saying is an absolute. What I am saying about Gurley is what I said about Trent Richardson as well. Like with everyone and predicting the future of players, sometimes your'e right and sometimes you're wrong.

But again, the excuse making for supposed great players is simply not going to fly. If you're a "stud", you better produce against the best and put the team on your back. Maybe I just like holding off labeling players "studs" until they have more than one season under their belt.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If it was 1990, I'd have a wait and see approach with Emmitt as well. Nothing I am saying is an absolute. What I am saying about Gurley is what I said about Trent Richardson as well. Like with everyone and predicting the future of players, sometimes your'e right and sometimes you're wrong.

But again, the excuse making for supposed great players is simply not going to fly. If you're a "stud", you better produce against the best and put the team on your back. Maybe I just like holding off labeling players "studs" until they have more than one season under their belt.

I think Gurley did that. You have to remember that Gurley was also coming of a major injury in his Rookie year. You can't know where the wall was with him last year. That has nothing to do with how good or bad he might be. That's about how ready you are for a full NFL season. We can't know that at this point. That remains to be seen.

If what you say is true about holding off, would you then say that it is also fair to hold off on Zeke? From what I have seen thus far, that is not the case where Zeke is concerned. I can respect what you are saying with the holding off because I have been saying the same thing but you can't have it both ways. It can't be one way for Gurley but different for Zeke. Players need time coming into the NFL. RB is the easiest position to break in and be great but that doesn't mean that there isn't an adjustment period. Same goes in reverse. There have been backs who have come into the league and had great rookie seasons and have proven to be average or worse over the course of their entire careers.

 

[mattjames2010]

I think Gurley did that. You have to remember that Gurley was also coming of a major injury in his Rookie year. You can't know where the wall was with him last year. That has nothing to do with how good or bad he might be. That's about how ready you are for a full NFL season. We can't know that at this point. That remains to be seen.

If what you say is true about holding off, would you then say that it is also fair to hold off on Zeke? From what I have seen thus far, that is not the case where Zeke is concerned. I can respect what you are saying with the holding off because I have been saying the same thing but you can't have it both ways. It can't be one way for Gurley but different for Zeke. Players need time coming into the NFL. RB is the easiest position to break in and be great but that doesn't mean that there isn't an adjustment period. Same goes in reverse. There have been backs who have come into the league and had great rookie seasons and have proven to be average or worse over the course of their entire careers.

It depends on how Zeke plays this year. Zeke is coming into a rare situation where a back like McFadden found a way to get 1,000 yards behind this offensive line. Our O-Line is hands down the best run blocking line in the NFL, and it's not even close. If he has a Trent Richardson like rookie season, I'm going to worry. He doesn't need to go on and break the NFL rushing record or even have a 2014 Murray-like season. I would say I expect Zeke to have 1,200-1,300 yards, 8-12 TDs, and average 4.5-4.8 YPC. I think that's reasonable expectations and if he doesn't meet them, he's going to have a lot of questions to answer.

At the same time, I don't view Zeke like many here do. I've said a few times, I see him more like a LeSean McCoy rather than a unique talent. I think the people who have this 1,500+ rushing yards mentality are going to be disappointed after this season when he doesn't match.

 

[speedkilz88]

I think Gurley did that. You have to remember that Gurley was also coming of a major injury in his Rookie year. You can't know where the wall was with him last year. That has nothing to do with how good or bad he might be. That's about how ready you are for a full NFL season. We can't know that at this point. That remains to be seen.

If what you say is true about holding off, would you then say that it is also fair to hold off on Zeke? From what I have seen thus far, that is not the case where Zeke is concerned. I can respect what you are saying with the holding off because I have been saying the same thing but you can't have it both ways. It can't be one way for Gurley but different for Zeke. Players need time coming into the NFL. RB is the easiest position to break in and be great but that doesn't mean that there isn't an adjustment period. Same goes in reverse. There have been backs who have come into the league and had great rookie seasons and have proven to be average or worse over the course of their entire careers.

Emmitt didn't have a training camp his rookie season, didn't sign until right before the season started.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If it was 1990, I'd have a wait and see approach with Emmitt as well. Nothing I am saying is an absolute. What I am saying about Gurley is what I said about Trent Richardson as well. Like with everyone and predicting the future of players, sometimes your'e right and sometimes you're wrong.

But again, the excuse making for supposed great players is simply not going to fly. If you're a "stud", you better produce against the best and put the team on your back. Maybe I just like holding off labeling players "studs" until they have more than one season under their belt.

I think Gurley did that. You have to remember that Gurley was also coming of a major injury in his Rookie year. You can't know where the wall was with him last year. That has nothing to do with how good or bad he might be. That's about how ready you are for a full NFL season. We can't know that at this point. That remains to be seen.

Emmitt didn't have a training camp his rookie season, didn't sign until right before the season started.

And Gurley was coming off a major injury and didn't even get activated until the third game of the season. Kinda of the same situation for different reasons.

 

[speedkilz88]

I think Gurley did that. You have to remember that Gurley was also coming of a major injury in his Rookie year. You can't know where the wall was with him last year. That has nothing to do with how good or bad he might be. That's about how ready you are for a full NFL season. We can't know that at this point. That remains to be seen.


And Gurley was coming off a major injury and didn't even get activated until the third game of the season. Kinda of the same situation for different reasons.

He still saw some camp though didn't he? I remember when the Cowboys scrimmaged and fought them he was out there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It depends on how Zeke plays this year. Zeke is coming into a rare situation where a back like McFadden found a way to get 1,000 yards behind this offensive line. Our O-Line is hands down the best run blocking line in the NFL, and it's not even close. If he has a Trent Richardson like rookie season, I'm going to worry. He doesn't need to go on and break the NFL rushing record or even have a 2014 Murray-like season. I would say I expect Zeke to have 1,200-1,300 yards, 8-12 TDs, and average 4.5-4.8 YPC. I think that's reasonable expectations and if he doesn't meet them, he's going to have a lot of questions to answer.

At the same time, I don't view Zeke like many here do. I've said a few times, I see him more like a LeSean McCoy rather than a unique talent. I think the people who have this 1,500+ rushing yards mentality are going to be disappointed after this season when he doesn't match.

1200 is a lofty goal for a Rookie. I don't think he needs to do that to have a successful Rookie Season. I would love it but if he doesn't reach that, I am not going to say that he won't be great.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He still saw some camp though didn't he? I remember when the Cowboys scrimmaged and fought them he was out there.

So did Emmitt. He was working out, he wasn't just sitting around. Emmitt was active for all 16 games in his Rookie year. He started 15 of 16.

 

[speedkilz88]

So did Emmitt. He was working out, he wasn't just sitting around.

Emmitt was not at camp.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Emmitt was not at camp.

He started 15 of 16 games and played in every game.

 

[speedkilz88]

He started 15 of 16 games and played in every game.

Woosh.... He didn't benefit from getting prepared in an offense he never ran in before with players he never played with before. At least Gurley got some practice time leading up to when he played.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Woosh.... He didn't benefit from getting prepared in an offense he never ran in before with players he never played with before. At least Gurley got some practice time leading up to when he played.

Speed, he had more carries and more games started. Emmitt was not coming off major injury. The point here is that Gurley did not have a poor Rookie season. I don't agree that 1106 yards, 4.83 YPC and 10 TDs is a poor Rookie year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He still saw some camp though didn't he? I remember when the Cowboys scrimmaged and fought them he was out there.

I think that Gurley was at camp but he didn't play. If you look at his game logs, he didn't play in any of the pre-season games. I don't think he was activated until the 3rd game of the regular season. I think that the point you are making with Emmitt really only supports the point I am trying to make. You can't just point to AD and say, if Gurley doesn't perform like AD, he is not going to be a great back. Emmitt, for whatever reason didn't have that kind of Rookie season and he clearly became a great back in the NFL. Every situation is different, you can't just make that determination at this point in his career IMO.