Illegal Formation on 2 pt play

[acr731]

They had 3 players talking to the ref. Trying to fool the Cowboys. Ref walked away and dis not see 68. The lions screwed up!

I don't understand how this is 'trying to fool the Cowboys' when the ref still announces who is eligible.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

But didn't the Lions want to report both 68 and 70 as eligible? If so they had two eligible receivers covering one another at the end of the line; illegal formation.

If this is the case Aikman was right, the Lions committed 3 penalties:

1. Illegal formation
2. Ineligible lineman downfield (assuming 68 did not report)
3. Illegal touching of a forward pass by 68

 

[droopdog7]

No, the Lions didn't claim that. They claimed that they declared 68 eligible but the officials named the wrong guy (70).

They couldn't declare them both eligible because in that case there wouldn't be enough ineligible receivers (5) on the field.

Ok, if if the lions claim that 68 should have been eligible, then they were good? So again, it comes down to the miscommunication?

I mean, if that is the case then the lions have a 100%. What’s crazy is that you clearly see 68 talking to the ref while you 70 doesn’t.

Of course, had they just let it go then of course the refs screw the cowboys as they would not have known that 68 was eligible.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

I don't understand how this is 'trying to fool the Cowboys' when the ref still announces who is eligible.

The Lions wanted Dallas to think only 70 announced as eligible. Either 68, who caught the pass, failed to report or tried to do so sneakily as to not tip off Dallas.

By trying to fool Dallas into thinking 70 was getting the ball and not 68, the Lions fooled the officials too. They screwed up and everyone is blaming the refs.

And you know I am still mad at them for screwing up the tripping call. Dallas would have run the clock out and won 17-13 if not for that error anyway.

 

[Mcsports]

I realize that three Lions players were over there near the official, but clearly the official is looking at and acknowledging 70 only which was confirmed by the PA system. So just because 68 was present in that little circle doesn't mean that 68 even said anything about being eligible. Being present in that conversation doesn't make you eligible.

Everyone is also mentioning the other infractions on the play such as the Illegal Formation. I am also reading on Jason Whitlock's twitter that Dan Campbell had proposed this play in the pregame to the officials but Brad Allen was not present. So that just keeps this story unfolding and the controversy and scandal is going to continue for years.

Good info. You are right it will be talked
About nonstop (until another officiating gaffe).

 

[droopdog7]

I don't understand how this is 'trying to fool the Cowboys' when the ref still announces who is eligible.

I assume you have people watching who is talking to the refs, so there is at least the potential for a mix up.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Ok, if if the lions claim that 68 should have been eligible, then they were good? So again, it comes down to the miscommunication?

I mean, if that is the case then the lions have a 100%. What’s crazy is that you clearly see 68 talking to the ref while you 70 doesn’t.

Of course, had they just let it go then of course the refs screw the cowboys as they would not have known that 68 was eligible.

If 68 had been declared eligible as the Lions wanted, there would not have been any penalties on the play.

However, that doesn't mean the play would have gone the same way. The Cowboys were told that 70 was eligible and 68 wasn't, so they played the try as if that were true. The Cowboys didn't blow coverage on 68, they covered the guy who was actually declared (to them) eligible.

 

[starfan1]

I don't understand how this is 'trying to fool the Cowboys' when the ref still announces who is eligible.

Maybe because we’re notoriously dumb?

 

[droopdog7]

They had 3 players talking to the ref. Trying to fool the Cowboys. Ref walked away and dis not see 68. The lions screwed up!

This is not my recollection. The refs were literally talking to 68 while 70 showed up late and may or may not have even gotten the refs attention.

 

[Mcsports]

I'm not certain of this, but I think since #70 was announced as eligible, he should have been on the outside instead of #68. This might be where the illegal formation thing is coming from. The 2nd penalty stems from #68 catching the ball when, according to the refs, he wasn't 'eligible'. I'm sure I'm repeating things that have already been pointed out numerous times, so apologies for that.

I've watched the video a dozen times and I don't see the ref looking at #70 as he approaches the initial conversation between #58, #68, and the ref. The ref had already started walking away before #70 even gets there. So I'm trying to understand how the ref announced #70 as eligible when he wasn't part of the conversation.

My opinion? I think this was totally on the ref's. Audio between #58, #68, and the ref before #70 walks up would certainly clear it up, but that doesn't exist. Only the ref announcing #70 as eligible is there.

You may be absolutely correct. But when I I watch the
Video there appears to be a visual connection with 70 and the ref.
I think the ref even makes a small gesture (like a point or thumbs up) letting 70 know he heard him and acknowledges it.
Thats how I interpreted it. But that is only speculation

 

[droopdog7]

Depends who you want to believe, the Lions or the refs. Refs claim #70 was the one reported as eligible when he wasn't even in the little circle jerk conversation. Lions claim #68 reported as eligible, which explains why they lined up the way they did on the LOS.

I dunno for certain, but I think the refs just announced the wrong person.

Yeah, but what I am asking is, if it was like the lions say it should have been, then would there have been an illegal formation? If the answer is no, then I see the lions gripe.

And what I am understanding is, they would have been okay if it was done like they wanted.

 

[acr731]

The Lions wanted Dallas to think only 70 announced as eligible. Either 68, who caught the pass, failed to report or tried to do so sneakily as to not tip off Dallas.

By trying to fool Dallas into thinking 70 was getting the ball and not 68, the Lions fooled the officials too. They screwed up and everyone is blaming the refs.

And you know I am still mad at them for screwing up the tripping call. Dallas would have run the clock out and won 17-13 if not for that error anyway.

But #70 wasn't even there talking to the ref. Only 1 can be announced as eligible, right? Seems to me, and I'm probably totally wrong, but I'm thinking the refs simply announced the wrong number.

It's about time Dallas benefited from a major ref screw up. They're usually on the wrong end of these ridiculous plays.

 

[droopdog7]

If 68 had been declared eligible as the Lions wanted, there would not have been any penalties on the play.

However, that doesn't mean the play would have gone the same way. The Cowboys were told that 70 was eligible and 68 wasn't, so they played the try as if that were true. The Cowboys didn't blow coverage on 68, they covered the guy who was actually declared (to them) eligible.

Yeah, this is exactly what I say at the end. So seems to me that the refs probably screwed this up and we’ll never know what might have happened had they not.

 

[JD_KaPow]

But #70 wasn't even there talking to the ref. Only 1 can be announced as eligible, right? Seems to me, and I'm probably totally wrong, but I'm thinking the refs simply announced the wrong number.

It's about time Dallas benefited from a major ref screw up. They're usually on the wrong end of these ridiculous plays.

I think that's right. But 70 was apparently declared eligible over the intercom to the stadium. If that announcement was made and the Lions failed to correct it, that's on them.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

But #70 wasn't even there talking to the ref. Only 1 can be announced as eligible, right? Seems to me, and I'm probably totally wrong, but I'm thinking the refs simply announced the wrong number.

It's about time Dallas benefited from a major ref screw up. They're usually on the wrong end of these ridiculous plays.

Jourdan Lewis confirmed the Cowboys were told 70 was eligible and accounted for, which is why 68 caught the pass so easily.

By trying to sneak 68's eligibility past Dallas they also snuck it past the officials.

Yes, the refs did mess up, but the Lions are not blameless.

 

[acr731]

I think that's right. But 70 was apparently declared eligible over the intercom to the stadium. If that announcement was made and the Lions failed to correct it, that's on them.

This is true. Dan Campbell apparently wasn't paying attention. Heat of the moment I guess. And this assumes the Lions were correct, and that #68 should have instead been announced as eligible.

 

[Mcsports]

The Lions wanted Dallas to think only 70 announced as eligible. Either 68, who caught the pass, failed to report or tried to do so sneakily as to not tip off Dallas.

By trying to fool Dallas into thinking 70 was getting the ball and not 68, the Lions fooled the officials too. They screwed up and everyone is blaming the refs.

And you know I am still mad at them for screwing up the tripping call. Dallas would have run the clock out and won 17-13 if not for that error anyway.

Agreed on all points.
Also had Dallas been informed 68 had reported as eligible , there is a 65 percent chance they cover 68 and he doesn’t make the catch.
Dallas paid no attention to 68 because to them, he was a blocking offensive lineman in a passing situation.

 

[acr731]

Jourdan Lewis confirmed the Cowboys were told 70 was eligible and accounted for, which is why 68 caught the pass so easily.

By trying to sneak 68's eligibility past Dallas they also snuck it past the officials.

Yes, the refs did mess up, but the Lions are not blameless.

But do we really know they were trying to disguise #68's eligibility?

 

[BaybeeJay]

But didn't the Lions want to report both 68 and 70 as eligible? If so they had two eligible receivers covering one another at the end of the line; illegal formation.

If this is the case Aikman was right, the Lions committed 3 penalties:

1. Illegal formation
2. Ineligible lineman downfield (assuming 68 did not report)
3. Illegal touching of a forward pass by 68

The formation was fine at the snap. There were at least 7 on the line. 68 was not covered up (which doesn't matter for the formation since he did not report, but had he reported he was in a legal position to run a route).

 

[thunderpimp91]

Still not clear. If both 70 and 68 were eligible like the lion claim they should have been, then no violation?

In other words, were the lions wrong regardless, or only because of the miscommunication with who was eligible? This is the important part that is basically yes or no.

They couldn’t both be eligible. If 70 were declared eligible it would be a flag illegal touching, illegal formation.