Illegal Formation on 2 pt play

[Rayman70]

Dan Campbell called a terrible game on the last set of downs. Dallas' D saved our arse when we needed it most. Lets not understate this, MM kicking the FG instead of going for it on 4th and 6 on our last drive was why we won too. If we go for the jugular and don't get it, they get the ball , with more time and beat us. MM won us the game. Nobody is talking about that decision. Aubrey has been Gold btw. Lets give the front office major credit for finding him.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

But didn't the Lions want to report both 68 and 70 as eligible? If so they had two eligible receivers covering one another at the end of the line; illegal formation.

If this is the case Aikman was right, the Lions committed 3 penalties:

1. Illegal formation
2. Ineligible lineman downfield (assuming 68 did not report)
3. Illegal touching of a forward pass by 68

two players can be eligible, but they can't be on the same side of the line.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Ok, if if the lions claim that 68 should have been eligible, then they were good? So again, it comes down to the miscommunication?

I mean, if that is the case then the lions have a 100%. What’s crazy is that you clearly see 68 talking to the ref while you 70 doesn’t.

Of course, had they just let it go then of course the refs screw the cowboys as they would not have known that 68 was eligible.

what was 68 telling ref? did he say #70 was going to be eligible player? 70 came in and pointed to himself. the ref announced 70. if that's false then why didn't the lions say anything. NONE of them. QB, #68 who everyone claims was telling ref something, the coach, the coaches in the booth. NONE of them and they all heard the same announcement.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They couldn’t both be eligible. If 70 were declared eligible it would be a flag illegal touching, illegal formation.

I think two players can be eligible, but can't be on the same side of the line, because in that case as you said it would be illegal formation.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If not the officials messed up by declaring 70 instead; if not then the Lions messed up.

Both sides are going to deny they are to blame, the only people that know for sure are Taylor Decker, Dan Skipper, and Brad Allen. I think all of them think they didn't make a mistake, to be honest.

the coach and player of course will deny it. but 68 did say, I did what the coaches told me to do. he didn't say I told the ref I was eligible. if the Lions think that they were wronged, then they would file a complaint with the NFL office. they haven't.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It was the Ref that screwed this up. the Lions had used #70 several times during the game as an eligible player. You see this often on FG/XP. They were planning on muscle memory to kick in for the cowboys and they would just assume #70 was the eligible number, as he had been all game in various situations. You can clearly see that #68 made the motion to declare himself eligible and #70 did not. However, the muscle memory kicked in on the Ref and he announced #70 as eligible instead of #68. I do not know if the coaches can hear the announcement on the PA system at all, so they may not have heard the announcement. I have often seen a coach asking, which number was it, after a penalty because he didn't hear the Ref announce it. So its easy to see how they would not have known which number was announced. The problem is that the Ref only alerted the Defense in regards to #70, so 68 was not in the coverage scheme which is why he was open. It is hard to say if that screw up costed them anything. and they failed the next 2 attempts anyway. The nfl should just have players that have non-eligible numbers wear a pull over jersey in red or something and then there is no need to report or be announced.

but the ref announced it. why didn't any of the Lions, the QB, the player who was supposed to be eligible as you said, the coach. none of the coaches. the coaches in the booth. NOBODY said or did anything.

it wasn't clear that 68 did the motion to declare himself. he was standing next to the ref with another OL man. so were both telling the ref they are eligible. then 70 runs in late and motions. the ref makes the announcement.

the coaches can hear the PA system. the players can hear the PA system. you want to tell me there were 20 people from Lions who didn't hear and none of them did anything!!! seriously.

no, the Lions tried to trick the cowboys and hope the refs get confused. and it didn't work. not dirty perhaps, but difintley unsportsman like.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They had 3......68 was the third

you can have two eligible but not on the same side of the line.

 

[droopdog7]

what was 68 telling ref? did he say #70 was going to be eligible player? 70 came in and pointed to himself. the ref announced 70. if that's false then why didn't the lions say anything. NONE of them. QB, #68 who everyone claims was telling ref something, the coach, the coaches in the booth. NONE of them and they all heard the same announcement.

Obviously we’ll never know for sure what was said, though that leads me to another question. Can/does one player walk over to the ref to tell them that another player is eligible? Probably no rule against it, but I wonder what is customary for a guy to tell the ref himself?

You do have to believe that one or two things happened. Either the person(s) talking to the ref said the wrong thing or the ref heard the wrong thing, What is also clear is that the lions were absolutely trying to create some uncertainty in the minds of the cowboys and it backfired.

As for the announcement of the eligible receiver, I am not sure at what point that happened. Obviously the lions might have missed it (on them) but even if they heard it, seems about the only option would have been to call a timeout because you probably can’t correct while the clock is running because the refs heard what they heard.

 

[Kwyn]

They had 3......68 was the third

I don’t think anyone has argued that Sewell reported or attempted to report. He was there likely to add to the confusion. They could have had two report is all I’m saying, if they had done it right and had the ref understood clearly, which he did not.

They just got too tricky.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

but the ref announced it. why didn't any of the Lions, the QB, the player who was supposed to be eligible as you said, the coach. none of the coaches. the coaches in the booth. NOBODY said or did anything.

it wasn't clear that 68 did the motion to declare himself. he was standing next to the ref with another OL man. so were both telling the ref they are eligible. then 70 runs in late and motions. the ref makes the announcement.

the coaches can hear the PA system. the players can hear the PA system. you want to tell me there were 20 people from Lions who didn't hear and none of them did anything!!! seriously.

no, the Lions tried to trick the cowboys and hope the refs get confused. and it didn't work. not dirty perhaps, but difintley unsportsman like.

I don’t think it was unsportsmanlike or dirty. Not even a little. It’s called a trick play for a reason. I am 100% certain that the players did what they were told to do. I am 100% certain that Detroit went over this play with some of the officials prior to the game, that happens even at HS level pre games. I am certain that it all backfired on the Lions as the Ref got confused. It’s a win for the Boys so I am happy it happened. But don’t pretend if the roles where reversed, we as a fan base wouldn’t be just as pissed as the lions fans are. Teams do all kind of things through out a game to gain any advantage they can. This is all this was. Didn’t work. On to Washington.

 

[Kwyn]

the illegal formation nullifies everything else. We won the game. NEXT.

Actually, the illegal formation would not have been a good call if 68 had been officially reported correctly.

The issue is that they got too fancy and then, after the reset when they should have kicked the PAT they got dumb.

Of course, if they didn’t call the tripping penalty at the other end, it’s possible the Lions don’t even get in scoring position.

 

[Kwyn]

Obviously we’ll never know for sure what was said, though that leads me to another question. Can/does one player walk over to the ref to tell them that another player is eligible? Probably no rule against it, but I wonder what is customary for a guy to tell the ref himself?

You do have to believe that one or two things happened. Either the person(s) talking to the ref said the wrong thing or the ref heard the wrong thing, What is also clear is that the lions were absolutely trying to create some uncertainty in the minds of the cowboys and it backfired.

As for the announcement of the eligible receiver, I am not sure at what point that happened. Obviously the lions might have missed it (on them) but even if they heard it, seems about the only option would have been to call a timeout because you probably can’t correct while the clock is running because the refs heard what they heard.

You actually have to report yourself. We tried to have Dak report on behalf of someone earlier in the year and then were flagged when the play went off.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Obviously we’ll never know for sure what was said, though that leads me to another question. Can/does one player walk over to the ref to tell them that another player is eligible? Probably no rule against it, but I wonder what is customary for a guy to tell the ref himself?

You do have to believe that one or two things happened. Either the person(s) talking to the ref said the wrong thing or the ref heard the wrong thing, What is also clear is that the lions were absolutely trying to create some uncertainty in the minds of the cowboys and it backfired.

As for the announcement of the eligible receiver, I am not sure at what point that happened. Obviously the lions might have missed it (on them) but even if they heard it, seems about the only option would have been to call a timeout because you probably can’t correct while the clock is running because the refs heard what they heard.

He doesn't have to or probably can't do that. The player to be eligible has to check in with ref and motion himself. He could have told the ref, 70 is going to come in and declare himself eligible. Another lineman standing there as well. 70 motioned but didn't go to the ref and directly talk to him. The ref looked at him and acknowledged specially when he announced it, it confirms he is the eligible player. nobody on Detroit side reacted.

Which leads me to believe that all of that was done to confuse the cowboys and the refs

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don’t think it was unsportsmanlike or dirty. Not even a little. It’s called a trick play for a reason. I am 100% certain that the players did what they were told to do. I am 100% certain that Detroit went over this play with some of the officials prior to the game, that happens even at HS level pre games. I am certain that it all backfired on the Lions as the Ref got confused. It’s a win for the Boys so I am happy it happened. But don’t pretend if the roles where reversed, we as a fan base wouldn’t be just as pissed as the lions fans are. Teams do all kind of things through out a game to gain any advantage they can. This is all this was. Didn’t work. On to Washington.

maybe not dirty, but certainly unsportsmanlike. if the purpose is to confuse the opponent and the officials then yeah. I doubt if they told the officials this is how they were going to do it. probably just that they will have a few eligible players.

 

[RonnieT24]

Still not clear. If both 70 and 68 were eligible like the lion claim they should have been, then no violation?

In other words, were the lions wrong regardless, or only because of the miscommunication with who was eligible? This is the important part that is basically yes or no.

Yes there would have been because 58 lined up outside of 70 and both were on the line. Furthermore if you look at where the wide receiver's foot is at the top of the picture it's even with the linemen's feet so HE is covering up 58 who is covering up 70. There could have been about 5 flags on that play.

 

[Cowboys22]

the coach and player of course will deny it. but 68 did say, I did what the coaches told me to do. he didn't say I told the ref I was eligible. if the Lions think that they were wronged, then they would file a complaint with the NFL office. they haven't.

Exactly. 68s job was to very meakly say report while 70 was running in hand jesturing to make Dallas think he was reporting while 58 was also over by the refs and lined up in the slot initially. All part of designed deception in which they had told the refs before the game about the play. They were supposed to ignore 70s hand jesture but Allen wasn’t in the pregame meeting so he saw 70 jesturing and announced him. Once Detroit let that stand and snapped the ball, it became illegal touching and illegal formation. The only ones that did anything wrong on the play was Detroit and they got what they deserved. On to Washington.

 

[DuncanIso]

I know this has been beaten to death but could someone explain the rule if this was also an illegal formation? I thought I heard Aikman say that their was more than one penalty on this play besides the illegal touch. He said that if he was eligible that he wasnt covered up by a WR. Can anyone explain if this was a penalty as well?
Thanks

It was legal.

Jumbo formation.

 

[RonnieT24]

It was legal.

Jumbo formation.

No it wasn't. If all three guys reported as is being posited here then 58 lining up outside of 70 made it an illegal formation.

 

[toto1939]

Detroit did not get screwed by the refs. Everyone heard 70 eligible including Detroit and Detroit did nothing to correct the refs, hoping that the refs would make another screwup and allow the 2 point conversion with a player that the Cowboys didn't know was eligible (68 wasn't as far as the refs were concerned which is maybe why the Cowboys didn't cover him)