I'm just so impressed with Julius Jones...

[ABQCOWBOY]

ABC, would you give your definition of "slot guy"?

Is it the usually small, quick, as opposed to fast, wideout who you feel needs the LOS leeway to cleanly release? Ie Wayne Chrebet type.

Is it simply the guy who lines up in the slot regardless of physical dimensions or skills?

Or the classic third receiver not talented enough to be a split end or flanker?

I think the slot has changed a great deal since the inception of the first 3 wide sets. I don't see the slot WR as the "weak link" WR, per say. I actually see the slot WR as the most versitile WR on the roster in the modern passing game. To completely understand my view on the slot and even the deep WR, you must understand my view of offense.

I believe in balance. I used to think that a good defense, a good kicking game and a healthy power running game could get it done but I no longer subscribe to that. I believe that in todays game, you must have balance. This is not to say that you can not be a power running team or ball control type team. On the contrary. I believe power teams are not teams that run the ball alot but rather teams that run the ball when they have to. I believe that ball control teams are teams that play for down and distance as opposed to outscoring your opponents through offensive production.

In todays NFL, I believe that balance is the key to offensive success. Many believe that balance comes when you run an equivalent of 50% run and 50% pass. That is not what I refere to when I say balance. In my opinion, balance is space. If you can create space, offensively, you have balance.

I have posted this before but IMO, you must be able to create space both vertically and horizontally on the field. This is why I believe speed deep and speed out of the backfield are so critical. With speed to go deep, and speed to the sideline, out of the backfield, I believe that you force defenses into a balanced defensive posture. Balance, defensively negates agressive play, IMO. It forces you to concentrate on areas of the field as opposed to pressure schemes. Essentially, you must have players at positions of need who can make plays. It is my opinion that the majority of teams in the NFL are forced to disguise weak players, through schemes, as opposed to actually matching up effectively all over the field. Defenses gain advantage through the use of key personel with the ability to over match there opponents. If you can create balance, it forces these key players into situations where they must play honestly.

This leads me to the WRs. In a balanced offense, I believe you must have a lead WR (Key) who may not have the break away speed but can work the field. You must have a Deep Threat WR (?) who defenses must respect at all times and a slot WR (Glenn) who has the skills to do a little of both, in a three WR set. Lastly, it's obviously a plus to have a TE who can catch seam routes as well as threaten the short and intermidiate zones. Speed at WR makes a defense play honest with the FS. Speed at RB makes the LBs play hash out as opposed to hash in. Also makes your SS commite to either the TE or run support and gives your QB a much better pre-snap read. The ability of the lead WR and the TE to work the short and intermidiate zones makes your LBs play off the LOS. This effectively balances the OL match-ups. If you can make the LBs respect the intermidiate area of the field and the speed to the outside, it allows your offense to isolate the 4 down lineman and one MLB or, in a 34, 5 defensive personel to the run. This should allow a talented RB and an above average OL to have big success in the running game. Forces your defense to make a decision. Either cheat a man or accept the fact that you can't stop the running game. If they cheat, it exposes a area of the field. This, IMO, is where the slot WR has the most success. A skilled WR will probably be isolated on a FS or a third CB. It forces a man to man coverage or some sort of zone. Either is to the advantage of the slot WR, the TE and or a RB that can catch. It also allows for big YAC play. The slot, to me, is the guy who is both quick and fast. He can catch but his real value is not stretching the field but rather, YAC. He can beat you for the big play but that is not his real value. His real value is making the off CB give ground. When this happens, the Slot guy can make huge plays in your offense. Eventually, the defense will adjust and then, your offense takes advantage of another area of the field.

This also allow for a team to have success with a QB who might not be an Elway. In this offensive scheme, as long as your a good decision maker and you have the ability to make accurate throws, you can be very succesful.

Long winded, I know, but this is an abriviation of what I believe the value of both balance and a slot WR bring.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

When we are running 2 WR instead of the 3 Glenn is still lined up on the outside and is not a slot man. He may line up in the slot when we are running 3. Thing is if I'm going to attack deep I would be more inclined to do so on 1st or 2nd down off the play action. Glenn still fits the bill as a deep threat. I also would not rule about the ability of Cooper and Crayton as 2 guys with the ability to be deep threats.

I agree with you, for the most part but the real question, IMO, is the ability of our WRs to take punishment throught the course of the season. I would like to see Glenn play fewer snaps. I would love to see a nice 3 deep WR corp with Witten and a single back set featuring JJ. I think that this would create maximum pressure on any defense. Toss in a half way mobile QB and I think your unstoppable offensively.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No argument from me. All of the great RBs had a good "stiff-arm" or they wouldn't have gotten a lot of the yards they did. Some were more effective with it than others though and those you named were some of the best ever.

Jim Brown liked to hurt his opponents as did Payton but Brown was bigger and stronger than Walter and in general faced smaller defenders, certainly smaller linemen than Payton. For that reason, I think Payton had a more effective "stiff-arm" than Brown although Brown probably hurt more people with his, if you see what I'm saying.

Emmitt didn't punish guys the way Brown and Payton did as much as just keep them from tackling him. He would lower his head and deliver a good shot on a would-be tackler and was very effective with that but for the most part he just pushed them away.

Campbell was one of my favorite non-Cowboys players ever. I loved watching him run, except against us of course, and he could deliver a nasty shot when he wanted to. My all-time favorite hit was the one he put on Rams LB Isaiah Robertson. They show that one in every show about big hits because he went out of his way to ram his helmet right into Robertson's chest and just crushed him!

No question there Thumper. All of those backs could use that straight arm effectively. I also agree with your take on Sweetness. For his size, he was amazing with his ability to stiff arm.

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree with you, for the most part but the real question, IMO, is the ability of our WRs to take punishment throught the course of the season. I would like to see Glenn play fewer snaps. I would love to see a nice 3 deep WR corp with Witten and a single back set featuring JJ. I think that this would create maximum pressure on any defense. Toss in a half way mobile QB and I think your unstoppable offensively.

I don't see Glenn taking few snaps but I do think we will see more from the younger WR (Cooper and Crayton) I don't think you have to be the fastest man in the NFL to become a true deep threat and I do feel Dallas has the people to provide the deep threat to help spread the defenses out add to that a very good running attack and I think this offense has a real chance to be a top 10 or better offense this season. Myself I don't look at Bledsoe as some broken down QB but I will agree he is more reliant on those around him doing their job for him to have success

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't see Glenn taking few snaps but I do think we will see more from the younger WR (Cooper and Crayton) I don't think you have to be the fastest man in the NFL to become a true deep threat and I do feel Dallas has the people to provide the deep threat to help spread the defenses out add to that a very good running attack and I think this offense has a real chance to be a top 10 or better offense this season. Myself I don't look at Bledsoe as some broken down QB but I will agree he is more reliant on those around him doing their job for him to have success

I don't think you have to be the fastest guy in the league to be a deep threat WR either. I think you have to have good speed. You have to make the FS honor you to the outside or anywhere you go. You have to make him think deep corner. That way, he gives up space. It helps open things up in front of him. Crayton or Cooper might be those guys but they'll have to prove it. At this point, I don't think anybody can say that we have that guy on our roster.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Good stuff.

I think the slot has changed a great deal since the inception of the first 3 wide sets. I don't see the slot WR as the "weak link" WR, per say. I actually see the slot WR as the most versitile WR on the roster in the modern passing game. To completely understand my view on the slot and even the deep WR, you must understand my view of offense.

The 'classic' slot receiver prototype has been undergoing a change, for sure, going from that Chrebet type to a much bigger Joey Porter who is often run out of the slot in Oakland, forcing the Ds to put their best defender on the slot guy, not the split end. Certainly you are correct, imo, that the job desciption has been upgraded. But "toughness" still reigns supreme on that job description. I think slot today, I see Joe Jurevicius.

In todays NFL, I believe that balance is the key to offensive success. Many believe that balance comes when you run an equivalent of 50% run and 50% pass. That is not what I refere to when I say balance. In my opinion, balance is space. If you can create space, offensively, you have balance.

I have posted this before but IMO, you must be able to create space both vertically and horizontally on the field. This is why I believe speed deep and speed out of the backfield are so critical. With speed to go deep, and speed to the sideline, out of the backfield, I believe that you force defenses into a balanced defensive posture. Balance, defensively negates agressive play, IMO. It forces you to concentrate on areas of the field as opposed to pressure schemes. Essentially, you must have players at positions of need who can make plays. It is my opinion that the majority of teams in the NFL are forced to disguise weak players, through schemes, as opposed to actually matching up effectively all over the field. Defenses gain advantage through the use of key personel with the ability to over match there opponents. If you can create balance, it forces these key players into situations where they must play honestly.

'Ownership' of the entire field, from sidelines to seams to mid field is as good a definition of 'balance' as any. Props, ABQ.

This leads me to the WRs. In a balanced offense, I believe you must have a lead WR (Key) who may not have the break away speed but can work the field. You must have a Deep Threat WR (?) who defenses must respect at all times and a slot WR (Glenn) who has the skills to do a little of both, in a three WR set.

Glenn is a burner, ABQ. We won't buy he runs the 4.2 he claimed this spring (but he's never been a chest thumper so I interpet that as his belief he lost no speed to ligament damage). But he is a deep threat, none-the-less. Here in 03 we had Joey, who has even more speed, which led to Glenn being used as more of a slot, and short-intermediate route runner, but no coach he has word under has ever worked him regularly from the slot. Parcells and Carroll had him run the sidelines, his best routes in his own opinion are Zs, and even Mike Sherman, who introduced him to the wco and much more work over the middle, did not assign him regular slot duties.

Perhaps because as Tuna put it, "he lost a bit of his blazing speed over the years, but none of his quickness", we may think he relies now more on quickness than speed. For some routes he does, but he is still one of the fastest wideouts playing today. And to overlook that would be, imho, fatal for us.

Tuna won't tho, because every blasted time the press asks "where's the speed", the immediate answer is Glenn. So knee jerk a Tuna reaction the press has been chiding him for it.

The slot, to me, is the guy who is both quick and fast. He can catch but his real value is not stretching the field but rather, YAC. He can beat you for the big play but that is not his real value. His real value is making the off WR give ground. When this happens, the Slot guy can make huge plays in your offense. Eventually, the defense will adjust and then, your offense takes advantage of another area of the field.

Okay, tho Glenn has never been the first name comes to mind when YAC is mentioned. I still have too much of the old fashioned view of the slot guy, I guess, because it's Key, not Terry, I see as more suitable there. Parcells still has that view too, I suppose, because in three receiver sets last year, I don't think in Terry's six/one half games, I saw him work the slot very much at all.

I certainly buy your take on the value of a slot guy who is both quick and fast, but Glenn to me lacks the toughness to excel from that position in anything like a full time basis. That's why Bill keeps him out of it, I reckon, unless like in 03, you got a one dimensional Joey, and AB who is learning routes, and a QB who absolutely needs some veteran security underneath. That's not the case now. We got the primo possession type in Key, who can open things up underneath like Terry never could IF there is that deep thad out there keeping them, honest. And of course we have Jason.

Terry may end up doing what he did in '03, when there was a faster (but less quick and more straight line runner on the roster in Joey) but since he is the faster receiver we have right now, (unless Crowder catches) on, I think his quickness will have to be sacrificed to his speed this season. His diverse skills will help us anywhere on the field, including those essential intermediate open up the field routes, but I would be shocked to see Bill have the team's fastest wideout doing what Key is better suited for...playing what is ultimately a possession, over a deep-field role.

We have only one player who can really keep that box from being stacked on JJ. I doubt he's working the slot this year.

Great stuff there, ABQ!

We shall see!

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I agree with you, for the most part but the real question, IMO, is the ability of our WRs to take punishment throught the course of the season. I would like to see Glenn play fewer snaps.

ABQ, where do you think he would be taking less punishment?

Racing down the sidelines a la Gallowaste, or out of the slot?

It isn't fewer snaps he would benefit from, as much as the type of routes.

That's keeping in mind Terry's injury last year was the same one that occured to both Dan Campbell and the Browns/Broncos Courtney Brown, it wasn't the amount of time on the field that made him susceptible, it was just accursed luck.

He needs to be on the field, as much as possible, and I'd be saying that even if he weren't my favorite player.

 

[dargonking999]

ABQ, where do you think he would be taking less punishment?

Racing down the sidelines a la Gallowaste, or out of the slot?

It isn't fewer snaps he would benefit from, as much as the type of routes.

That's keeping in mind Terry's injury last year was the same one that occured to both Dan Campbell and the Browns/Broncos Courtney Brown, it wasn't the amount of time on the field that made him susceptible, it was just accursed luck.

He needs to be on the field, as much as possible, and I'd be saying that even if he weren't my favorite player.

i agree, Glenn is the most sure thing we have of a downfield threat when healthy, everybody else is ? marks, i'd rather see him playing every down, and showing his great conditioning, then him sitting on the sideline hampering are down field game

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good stuff.



The 'classic' slot receiver prototype has been undergoing a change, for sure, going from that Chrebet type to a much bigger Joey Porter who is often run out of the slot in Oakland, forcing the Ds to put their best defender on the slot guy, not the split end. Certainly you are correct, imo, that the job desciption has been upgraded. But "toughness" still reigns supreme on that job description. I think slot today, I see Joe Jurevicius.



'Ownership' of the entire field, from sidelines to seams to mid field is as good a definition of 'balance' as any. Props, ABQ.



Glenn is a burner, ABQ. We won't buy he runs the 4.2 he claimed this spring (but he's never been a chest thumper so I interpet that as his belief he lost no speed to ligament damage). But he is a deep threat, none-the-less. Here in 03 we had Joey, who has even more speed, which led to Glenn being used as more of a slot, and short-intermediate route runner, but no coach he has word under has ever worked him regularly from the slot. Parcells and Carroll had him run the sidelines, his best routes in his own opinion are Zs, and even Mike Sherman, who introduced him to the wco and much more work over the middle, did not assign him regular slot duties.

Perhaps because as Tuna put it, "he lost a bit of his blazing speed over the years, but none of his quickness", we may think he relies now more on quickness than speed. For some routes he does, but he is still one of the fastest wideouts playing today. And to overlook that would be, imho, fatal for us.

Tuna won't tho, because every blasted time the press asks "where's the speed", the immediate answer is Glenn. So knee jerk a Tuna reaction the press has been chiding him for it.



Okay, tho Glenn has never been the first name comes to mind when YAC is mentioned. I still have too much of the old fashioned view of the slot guy, I guess, because it's Key, not Terry, I see as more suitable there. Parcells still has that view too, I suppose, because in three receiver sets last year, I don't think in Terry's six/one half games, I saw him work the slot very much at all.

I certainly buy your take on the value of a slot guy who is both quick and fast, but Glenn to me lacks the toughness to excel from that position in anything like a full time basis. That's why Bill keeps him out of it, I reckon, unless like in 03, you got a one dimensional Joey, and AB who is learning routes, and a QB who absolutely needs some veteran security underneath. That's not the case now. We got the primo possession type in Key, who can open things up underneath like Terry never could IF there is that deep thad out there keeping them, honest. And of course we have Jason.

Terry may end up doing what he did in '03, when there was a faster (but less quick and more straight line runner on the roster in Joey) but since he is the faster receiver we have right now, (unless Crowder catches) on, I think his quickness will have to be sacrificed to his speed this season. His diverse skills will help us anywhere on the field, including those essential intermediate open up the field routes, but I would be shocked to see Bill have the team's fastest wideout doing what Key is better suited for...playing what is ultimately a possession, over a deep-field role.

We have only one player who can really keep that box from being stacked on JJ. I doubt he's working the slot this year.

Great stuff there, ABQ!

We shall see!

Now this is interesting. I don't see KJ as a guy who will ever produce a lot of YAC but as the tough, make the catch, move the chains guy. I agree with your assesment of Glenn's speed. I think he does have plenty of it left but I just think it would be a waste to watch him at the deep guy. Could he do it? Yeah, I think he probably could. The real question would be, can any of the other guys play the slot? To me, tough is not punishing, per say, but able to make the tough catch in traffic. To be sure, the slot guy is going to see there share of LBs and safeties. On the other hand, because of this, there also going to see the most favorable match ups as well. I guy like Glenn could create horror for DCs on inside out routes and quick slants IMO. The thing that Glenn can do that makes him an effective Slot WR, IMO, is create space for himself in either deep or short routes. This is not easy to do. Hines Ward is another guy who does this well. Deep guys create space deep but not short. Short guys, just the reverse. It's hard to find guys who can do it in either pattern and actually catch the ball.

 

[dargonking999]

Now this is interesting. I don't see KJ as a guy who will ever produce a lot of YAC but as the tough, make the catch, move the chains guy. I agree with your assesment of Glenn's speed. I think he does have plenty of it left but I just think it would be a waste to watch him at the deep guy. Could he do it? Yeah, I think he probably could. The real question would be, can any of the other guys play the slot? To me, tough is not punishing, per say, but able to make the tough catch in traffic. To be sure, the slot guy is going to see there share of LBs and safeties. On the other hand, because of this, there also going to see the most favorable match ups as well. I guy like Glenn could create horror for DCs on inside out routes and quick slants IMO. The thing that Glenn can do that makes him an effective Slot WR, IMO, is create space for himself in either deep or short routes. This is not easy to do. Hines Ward is another guy who does this well. Deep guys create space deep but not short. Short guys, just the reverse. It's hard to find guys who can do it in either pattern and actually catch the ball.

and thats the thing with Glenn, he has great hands i still remember that play in 2003 when he caught that off thrown pass from QC, and then turned the DB around and dove into the endzone, Glenn has the ablity to get behind a defender and catch the ball as well as do the quick slants, and catch the ball, I think we need to use all of his ablities because it makes him harder to cover when your not sure if he's gonna burn you deep or kill you on a quick slant.

 

[JDSmith]

I personally think that Terry Glenn is an outstanding receiver. But I also believe he needs to see less action. I believe that for all of Glenn's amazing athletic ability, he just wasn't given the gift of durability. I'm not basing that on last year's injury, but on his body of work throughout his NFL career. Terry Glenn just has a tough time staying healthy and playing a complete season. I think that he'd be amazing as a slot receiver because he'd have to take less snaps and he'd still have plenty of chances to make plays because of the mismatch his skills can create in the slot. That's why I wanted us to draft Mike Williams. We didn't, so unless something miraculous happens and someone like Crayton wins the number 2 job Terry will be out there every down - at least until he breaks, and if he doesn't that would probably be even more miraculous than Crayton stepping up and taking his spot.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Now this is interesting. I don't see KJ as a guy who will ever produce a lot of YAC but as the tough, make the catch, move the chains guy.

The change in slot receviers over the last few years has been from small to bigger. Joey Porter bigger. Jurevicious bigger. The former is going to get more YAC than the latter, but the common denominator is size. Size and baddass toughness.

I agree with your assesment of Glenn's speed. I think he does have plenty of it left but I just think it would be a waste to watch him at the deep guy.

Then who would be our deep guy? A more limited route runner with less speed and nowhere near the hands.

Could he do it? Yeah, I think he probably could.

Well, it's what he is, and if he can't do it, we're in trouble.

The real question would be, can any of the other guys play the slot? To me, tough is not punishing, per say, but able to make the tough catch in traffic. To be sure, the slot guy is going to see there share of LBs and safeties. On the other hand, because of this, there also going to see the most favorable match ups as well. I guy like Glenn could create horror for DCs on inside out routes and quick slants IMO.

A twice concussed, "fragile" boned receiver with a rep for not being able to play thru pain (granted, that's more an old rap than a new) is not my ideal in that position. I suspect the more likely horror we see is what Pete Carroll saw when (was it LB Chad Brown?) literally picked TG up, drove him head first into the ground, breaking his collar bone and ending his season.

In 03, Bill did have to work T out of the slot, but how good was he then at it? Not very, imho. I think he moved the chains well enough, had 39 I think, receptions for first downs, but I didn't see him taking it to the house, or racking up long gains after the catch. Bottom line was we had to bring in Key. Now that we've got Key, and traded Galloway because he duplicated Terry's skills, we're going to do what didn't work before? And do it minus Joey's speed?

If the issue is no one else can do it, as in 03, fine. But its not. And we know from 03, Terry is wasted in that role.

The thing that Glenn can do that makes him an effective Slot WR, IMO, is create space for himself in either deep or short routes. This is not easy to do. Hines Ward is another guy who does this well.

Yep, both T and Ward can do that. But one's BIG and arguably the best blocking, meanest wideout alive, and one is known as "she". LOL

I'm not saying Glenn should catch any breaks because he is a wuss. He needs to earn his paycheck too, but Bill has worked it (Joey for Key) so Terry can stay as far away from those linebacker match ups as Bill can get him.

Hallelieyuh! (sic)

Maybe it's ME, ABQ. Maybe I'm blinded by fear, but I have no reason to think that sans Galloway's speed in the outside, Glenn is going to be any more effective in those match ups than he was in 03. The boy did NOT amass remarkable YAC...he moved he chains. Sorta. Now if we want to, lmao, bring up the Q factor, fine (cringe), but Beldsoe ain't any underneath specialist either.

We've got Jason Witten and Keyshawn Johnson to match up with backers. And Glenn is smaller than any other receiver we've got, with a history of injuries. Any space he creates in the short field Key and Jason can do better, imo, and if 03 is any example, with just as much YAC.

I for one am TIRED of seeing Terry taking out of his game because other "people can't do it", specially because other BIGGER people CAN do it, and can do it better.

Nothing sets my teeth on edge like the words 'slot' and 'Glenn' in the same sentence, lol. But I see your points, ABQ. I just don't see, based on his underneath perfomance in Green Bay and here, that Terry can get us enough slot YAC to offset his loss in the deep game.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The change in slot receviers over the last few years has been from small to bigger. Joey Porter bigger. Jurevicious bigger. The former is going to get more YAC than the latter, but the common denominator is size. Size and baddass toughness.



Then who would be our deep guy? A more limited route runner with less speed and nowhere near the hands.



Well, it's what he is, and if he can't do it, we're in trouble.



A twice concussed, "fragile" boned receiver with a rep for not being able to play thru pain (granted, that's more an old rap than a new) is not my ideal in that position. I suspect the more likely horror we see is what Pete Carroll saw when (was it LB Chad Brown?) literally picked TG up, drove him head first into the ground, breaking his collar bone and ending his season.

In 03, Bill did have to work T out of the slot, but how good was he then at it? Not very, imho. I think he moved the chains well enough, had 39 I think, receptions for first downs, but I didn't see him taking it to the house, or racking up long gains after the catch. Bottom line was we had to bring in Key. Now that we've got Key, and traded Galloway because he duplicated Terry's skills, we're going to do what didn't work before? And do it minus Joey's speed?

If the issue is no one else can do it, as in 03, fine. But its not. And we know from 03, Terry is wasted in that role.



Yep, both T and Ward can do that. But one's BIG and arguably the best blocking, meanest wideout alive, and one is known as "she". LOL

I'm not saying Glenn should catch any breaks because he is a wuss. He needs to earn his paycheck too, but Bill has worked it (Joey for Key) so Terry can stay as far away from those linebacker match ups as Bill can get him.

Hallelieyuh! (sic)

Maybe it's ME, ABQ. Maybe I'm blinded by fear, but I have no reason to think that sans Galloway's speed in the outside, Glenn is going to be any more effective in those match ups than he was in 03. The boy did NOT amass remarkable YAC...he moved he chains. Sorta. Now if we want to, lmao, bring up the Q factor, fine (cringe), but Beldsoe ain't any underneath specialist either.

We've got Jason Witten and Keyshawn Johnson to match up with backers. And Glenn is smaller than any other receiver we've got, with a history of injuries. Any space he creates in the short field Key and Jason can do better, imo, and if 03 is any example, with just as much YAC.

I for one am TIRED of seeing Terry taking out of his game because other "people can't do it", specially because other BIGGER people CAN do it, and can do it better.

Nothing sets my teeth on edge like the words 'slot' and 'Glenn' in the same sentence, lol. But I see your points, ABQ. I just don't see, based on his underneath perfomance in Green Bay and here, that Terry can get us enough slot YAC to offset his loss in the deep game.

Two things I see as positive, for Glenn, about the slot. One would be that I don't see him playing as many downs and I think that would be a positive thing for him. Two, I think the slot is often used as a TE in three receiver sets. I would not use the slot in that way. Slot receivers don't neccesarily have to be run in on the LBs or safties. I would actually use a three WR set along with the TE and single back set. I think that JJ is going to be the type of back that can run out of a single back offense. In this offensive set, the TE and KJ would freeze the LBs. It would not be difficult for Glenn to run buy these guys if this set. I just don't think that Glenn, in the slot, neccesarily translates into punishing contact.

As for 2003, I don't really think you can go to school on any of our WRs from that season. Don't want to turn this into QC thread but basically, I just think there was to many things going in different directions for anybody to get a decent read on what our offense could or couldn't do.

Basically, I don't see size as the commen denominator in the slot because of what I believe Witten and JJ will be able to do. I see his versatility paying big dividends for him. I do, however, understand your reluctance to play him there. Your idea of what a slot receiver should do is much more like Oaklands, Minnesota's or Cincy's use of it. I see it much more like Tampa Bays, the Rams or San Francisco used to run. I don't think Slot has to translate into injury. I think much of it has to do with the patterns you run out of the slot.

I also think that a more limited guy is what we need as the deep WR. I mean, his primary job is to stretch. I think the ideal guy has to be able to catch the deep ball well. I think he has to adjust well to the ball but I don't think he has to be a guy who can work underneith or middle in as well. I think that guy is what he is.

Either way, one thing is sure, we're going to need three guys who can play WR. I hope someone else steps forward.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Two things I see as positive, for Glenn, about the slot. One would be that I don't see him playing as many downs and I think that would be a positive thing for him.

Bill knows he has to keep T involved, and involve him early, hence that play card Collingsworth claimed Tuna has bolded GLENN at the top, reminding him to get the ball out to Terry early.

However, he has also said he likes to 'rest' him near the end of games if he possible can. That has to be about extending the shelf life, and rotational freshness plays a role at wide out like any other position.

I don't fault anyone who wants to see T play less, (even those who don't like my boy cuz he's a "retread" and Crayton or Morgan, et al, more. It's imperative to develop our young receivers. I have zero prob with seeing Glenn get fewer snaps. Zero. As long as they don't come from "there". And as long as when he's out there, he is running routes that maximize his talents.

Two, I think the slot is often used as a TE in three receiver sets. I would not use the slot in that way. Slot receivers don't neccesarily have to be run in on the LBs or safties. I would actually use a three WR set along with the TE and single back set. I think that JJ is going to be the type of back that can run out of a single back offense. In this offensive set, the TE and KJ would freeze the LBs. It would not be difficult for Glenn to run buy these guys if this set. I just don't think that Glenn, in the slot, neccesarily translates into punishing contact.

Sure, just about any route can be run out of the slot. Not necessarily over the short to intermediate middle or a crossing pattern.

As for 2003, I don't really think you can go to school on any of our WRs from that season. Don't want to turn this into QC thread but basically, I just think there was to many things going in different directions for anybody to get a decent read on what our offense could or couldn't do.

With Terry, it's not just 03 but Green Bay, with no less than Brett Favre. Glenn is simply not a wco, horizontal field stretching, possession, YAC amassing receiver.

Basically, I don't see size as the commen denominator in the slot because of what I believe Witten and JJ will be able to do. I see his versatility paying big dividends for him. I do, however, understand your reluctance to play him there. Your idea of what a slot receiver should do is much more like Oaklands, Minnesota's or Cincy's use of it. I see it much more like Tampa Bays, the Rams or San Francisco used to run. I don't think Slot has to translate into injury. I think much of it has to do with the patterns you run out of the slot.

Yup, like the patterns Paul Hackett managed to get Wayne Chrebet's brains scrambled with. I KNOW Bill ain't letting THAT happen.

I also think that a more limited guy is what we need as the deep WR. I mean, his primary job is to stretch. I think the ideal guy has to be able to catch the deep ball well. I think he has to adjust well to the ball but I don't think he has to be a guy who can work underneith or middle in as well. I think that guy is what he is.

ABQ, if I had reasonable faith Morgan, (already injured) had the consistant hands, and the body control to make just the occasional Glenn type reception downfield (you know the kind that "make the amazing look routine" or however they put it in the Year in Review), I'd be for it. Or if Crayton had the speed. But none of our deep receivers except Terry are going to command
the respect...the double teams, and the defensive coordinators scheming to stop them. I don't go for the idea just the threat of the deep ball keeps them honest if the receiver scares no one because he can't hang on, or can't toe the sidelines, or misjudges balls, lacks vertical leap, etc. There is an very important set of skills involved in vertical reception, and maybe the predominance of the wco in one form or another is making us forget that.

(And I am willing to admit there is one skill in that set T lacks..the ability to fight for the long ball and win most of the battles ,but as we saw in the Cleveland game last year, racing downfield with a db alongside him, Glenn is smart and sneaky..thru expericene he has learned the subtle push off that gets the OTHER guy flagged. I don't wanna lose that...I wanna see Skins fans posting on game day "that little cheater!" again. )

I look at it like the Larry to RT thing. Sure, Terry could probably work slot duties well enough. But like LA's move to tackle, the fall off at LG would more than prohibit whatever small advantage he would mean over Vollers, Tucker or the kids at that position, what we'd lose deep (geez T can be just plain spectacular) I doubt would be compensated for by the amount of YAC Glenn would get out of the slot.

Either way, one thing is sure, we're going to need three guys who can play WR. I hope someone else steps forward.

For sure, and I enjoyed the conversation, ABQ.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

and thats the thing with Glenn, he has great hands i still remember that play in 2003 when he caught that off thrown pass from QC, and then turned the DB around and dove into the endzone, Glenn has the ablity to get behind a defender and catch the ball as well as do the quick slants, and catch the ball, I think we need to use all of his ablities because it makes him harder to cover when your not sure if he's gonna burn you deep or kill you on a quick slant.

Another (near) perfect post.

But this one gets an "A" for content as well.

 

[jobberone]

But you know, and this might sound stupid, Julius looks faster than what a regular-sub 4.40 guy looks if you know what I mean.

There are probably 1 or 2 guys on every team that can run a 4.3 or better but Julius seems to use his speed better if that makes sense.

I agree. I call it football speed. It's speed on the field with pads. I know what you mean. Makes plenty of sense.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

This is a very good thread to read.

If I had to pick one Dallas player that I liked "potentially" it would be Jones. Many people may say Witten, but I will stick with Jones.

He has a lot of the attributes that many of you guys/gals have pointed out.

He also has a coach that will drive him to be the best he can be, and instill the discipline to drive himself game in and game out.

He was a great pick up for the Cowboys and it is nice to see so many of you appreciate his talents.

There are 2 very good RBs in the NFC East, one pretty good, and one system. IMO.

EDIT: That said, the Commanders hopefully will find a way to shut him down.

 

[JDSmith]

This is a very good thread to read.

If I had to pick one Dallas player that I liked "potentially" it would be Jones. Many people may say Witten, but I will stick with Jones.

He has a lot of the attributes that many of you guys/gals have pointed out.

He also has a coach that will drive him to be the best he can be, and instill the discipline to drive himself game in and game out.

He was a great pick up for the Cowboys and it is nice to see so many of you appreciate his talents.

There are 2 very good RBs in the NFC East, one pretty good, and one system. IMO.

EDIT: That said, the Commanders hopefully will find a way to shut him down.

They did a great job against him last year. You didn't win the game but that was only because of a fluke (Testaverde actually made a positive play when we needed it most desperately - that's about as flukey as anything I've seen). But making the JJ highlights I didn't have many clips I could use from the game against you. The one play I was going to use as a terrific run ended with Taylor stripping the ball just short of the goal line and the Skins recovering. :bang2:

 

[Cowboys&Caps]

yea he is spectacular, could be our ticket back to the top if he stays healthy... and we have a superb offensive line infront of him now so we are looking pretty good in the run game.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

The one play I was going to use as a terrific run ended with Taylor stripping the ball just short of the goal line and the Skins recovering. :bang2:

I cant bring that up on a Cowboys board, now can I ?

And I hope for more of the same. Depends on the Commanders secondary.