I'm so tired of hearing how "dirty" RW is...

[The30YardSlant]

Especially from E-Girls and Foreskins fans. Just because he injures a few guys on what at the time was a legal move doesnt make him dirty. He is an elite defensive playmaker. For reference all you high and mighty Skins fans, I give you the saint Sean Taylor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXTiD83Irwk


Sean Taylor leads with his helmet at the 0:23 mark, throws a late forearm into TO's chest at the 0:31 mark, horsecollars a player at the 0:39 second mark, hits Terry Glenn helmet to helmet at the 1:40 mark, leads with his helmet at the 1:47 mark, horsecollars a player at the 2:53 mark, clothslines a player at the 3:01 mark, pulls Chris Henry down by the neck while he is in midair at the 3:22 mark, pulls McNabb down by the facemask at the 3:46 mark, pulls a player down by the head at the 4:13 mark, and gives Nate Burleson a late hit at the 4:35 mark

And that's just the first half of the video

 

[dargonking999]

hey havnet you heard, RW is still dirty just not as dirty as Taylor.

 

[JohnLockesGhost]

I for one have never considered Roy Williams "dirty;" he's just not a great tackler. He pulls guys down from behind because he's out of position alot.

 

[DallasEast]

Last night, I remember Matt McCoy (sp?) for the Eagles tackling the Raider quarterback (I believe it was Toupiousa (sp?)) five yards out of bounds. Of course, that drew a flag, but I also thought he horse-collared him during the tackle. Neither Michaels or Madden commented on it, but it looked like it to me.

Some players will seem to play dirty to some and other players won't. It happens. Unfortunately for Roy, he's being watched very closely at every tackle and hit he's going to make over the next few years.

 

[dargonking999]

I for one have never considered Roy Williams "dirty;" he's just not a great tackler. He pulls guys down from behind because he's out of position alot.

or maybe its because other guys arent doing there job, and Roy williams has to go catch these people, and the last time i checked it aint easy taking someonee down from behind.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

One look at Roy Williams' tackles stats and especially a look into how many of his tackles are made close the line of scrimmage would indicate he's a superb tackler.

The NFL is a fine happy league. They've never been afraid to fine players and are known for going overboard on it. Despite that, Roy has been fined only once, on a play that he didn't even get flagged for the hit (against Lav Coles).

What's sad is that the horse collar was legal when Roy did it to the players that got injured and it was a widely used form of tackling around the league. Even still, the horse collar has generally resulted in a low rate of injuries in NFL games. Outside of Steve Smith getting hurt by a horse collar in 2004, I can't really think of another player that got hurt by a horse collar that wasn't applied by Roy.

And as far as Roy "being out of position" a lot, these two independent game charting sources completely disagree:

"No one expects Roy Williams to be great in coverage but the best measure of his coverage skills might be how he did against deep passes. Williams was solid on these passes, with a 70% success rate and a #14 ranking in the overall safety metric. Not great numbers, but not a bad tradeoff for the upside Williams gives the team against the run.” - KC Joyner (http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums...ht=vela+joyner)


"Roy Williams does not deserve all of the criticism he receives for his poor pass coverage. His Stop Rate of 43% ranked 6th among all safeties involved in at least 40 passing plays. Williams' biggest problem in pass coverage is that he gets little help from Keith Davis" - 2006 Pro Football Prospectus


Rich.........

 

[daboys79]

It's only a horse collar when Roy does it.

 

[theebs]

I for one have never considered Roy Williams "dirty;" he's just not a great tackler. He pulls guys down from behind because he's out of position alot.

LOL

Excuse me?

Where does this perception come from. Some people need to watch more football before making statements like this.

 

[Hoods]

I for one have never considered Roy Williams "dirty;" he's just not a great tackler. He pulls guys down from behind because he's out of position alot.

That would be your safety.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

And as far as Roy "being out of position" a lot, these two independent game charting sources completely disagree:

"No one expects Roy Williams to be great in coverage but the best measure of his coverage skills might be how he did against deep passes. Williams was solid on these passes, with a 70% success rate and a #14 ranking in the overall safety metric. Not great numbers, but not a bad tradeoff for the upside Williams gives the team against the run.” - KC Joyner (http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums...ht=vela+joyner)


"Roy Williams does not deserve all of the criticism he receives for his poor pass coverage. His Stop Rate of 43% ranked 6th among all safeties involved in at least 40 passing plays. Williams' biggest problem in pass coverage is that he gets little help from Keith Davis" - 2006 Pro Football Prospectus


Rich.........

well, well, well.. it looks like Roy is actually GOOD in pass coverage after all.. not horrible.. not below average.. not average.. not decent.. but good.. he is a PLUS against the pass, not a minus.. I have been saying this forever.. I hope that these stats start getting more and more ink.. I hate all the "roy sucks in coverage" and "roy is overrated" crap that we have to read all the time.. He is the best safety in the league, period..

oh, and he isn' a dirty player at all.. he is just an incredible tackler that punishes people.. completely different things.. Roy is actually all class..

 

[dargonking999]

LOL

Excuse me?

Where does this perception come from. Some people need to watch more football before making statements like this.

Commanders fan, come on now

 

[Yakuza Rich]

LOL

Excuse me?

Where does this perception come from. Some people need to watch more football before making statements like this.

I think it comes from the Green Bay game in 2004 where Dixon fouled up (big surprise!) causing Roy to foul up and of course Collinsworth blamed Roy and then Ditka later on in the highlights said Roy was way out of position. It's like the Washington game where supposedly Roy is supposed to abandon his responsibilities of covering Cooley and because John Madden said Roy was supposed to play deeper than the deepest, everybody took that to be the gospel and ran with it.


Rich.........

 

[dargonking999]

I never knew that the run stopping SS< is suppose to be the deepest guy, i could have sworn the duty was for the FS

 

[Yakuza Rich]

well, well, well.. it looks like Roy is actually GOOD in pass coverage after all.. not horrible.. not below average.. not average.. not decent.. but good.. he is a PLUS against the pass, not a minus.. I have been saying this forever.. I hope that these stats start getting more and more ink.. I hate all the "roy sucks in coverage" and "roy is overrated" crap that we have to read all the time.. He is the best safety in the league, period..

I posted these stats over at ExtremeSkins and of course the reply is "that's wrong...I've seen Roy in coverage and he sucks", etc.

When it comes to coverage, I usually like to combine both Joyner's and PFP books to get an idea of how somebody is really doing. I don't think Roy is great in coverage, but from reading these it's pretty safe to say he's pretty solid. Now if we can only get things set up where we could possibly use him as a LB in the nickel and get a true FS to play alongside him.

Rich........

 

[trickblue]

I posted these stats over at ExtremeSkins and of course the reply is "that's wrong...I've seen Roy in coverage and he sucks", etc.

When it comes to coverage, I usually like to combine both Joyner's and PFP books to get an idea of how somebody is really doing. I don't think Roy is great in coverage, but from reading these it's pretty safe to say he's pretty solid. Now if we can only get things set up where we could possibly use him as a LB in the nickel and get a true FS to play alongside him.

Rich........

I don't believe it, so it can't be true... HTTR...

:redhomer:

 

[AbeBeta]

Especially from E-Girls and Foreskins fans. Just because he injures a few guys on what at the time was a legal move doesnt make him dirty. He is an elite defensive playmaker. For reference all you high and mighty Skins fans, I give you the saint Sean Taylor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXTiD83Irwk


Sean Taylor leads with his helmet at the 0:23 mark, throws a late forearm into TO's chest at the 0:31 mark, horsecollars a player at the 0:39 second mark, hits Terry Glenn helmet to helmet at the 1:40 mark, leads with his helmet at the 1:47 mark, horsecollars a player at the 2:53 mark, clothslines a player at the 3:01 mark, pulls Chris Henry down by the neck while he is in midair at the 3:22 mark, pulls McNabb down by the facemask at the 3:46 mark, pulls a player down by the head at the 4:13 mark, and gives Nate Burleson a late hit at the 4:35 mark

And that's just the first half of the video

If you are tired of it, why bring it up -- wouldn't that simply spark more conversation about Roy being dirty?

 

[superpunk]

I don't believe it, so it can't be true... HTTR...

GD double agents.

People read one article about Roy being "overrated", or hear one blurb on TV about him screwing up a coverage, and all of a sudden it's gospel. For some reason, other SS's recieve less attention that way. Drawback of playing for the Cowboys. Guys like Troy P., Taylor, Reed, Dawkins get beat every bit as much, but not as much is made of their bad plays.

It's easy to be lazy and just believe what you hear.

 

[theebs]

You know what I get a chuckle out of. The giants whined about williams horse collaring shockey in the game at texas stadium then during the game in NY he tackled barber from behind and the whole bench went crazy and coughlin and barber were screaming at williams.

Then in the second half glenn picked off manning and burress horse collared aaron glenn almost exactly the way williams tackled owens and not one giant made a peep. None of the announcers made a peep, and I certainly didnt see barber or coughlin jumping up and down. Funny thing too is that glenn got hurt on that play and hobbled around the rest of the month. But no one ever brought it up and they never showed it again.


I put the video up not too long ago somewhere, but I cant find it right now. I am on my laptop and cant put the clip up till later.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

You know what I get a chuckle out of. The giants whined about williams horse collaring shockey in the game at texas stadium then during the game in NY he tackled barber from behind and the whole bench went crazy and coughlin and barber were screaming at williams.

Then in the second half glenn picked off manning and burress horse collared aaron glenn almost exactly the way williams tackled owens and not one giant made a peep. None of the announcers made a peep, and I certainly didnt see barber or coughlin jumping up and down. Funny thing too is that glenn got hurt on that play and hobbled around the rest of the month. But no one ever brought it up and they never showed it again.


I put the video up not too long ago somewhere, but I cant find it right now. I am on my laptop and cant put the clip up till later.

that's right!! I remember watching that game and saying that same thing to my brother!

 

[random Cs]

Isn't the horse-collar tackle rule known as the Roy Williams rule?

well, well, well.. it looks like Roy is actually GOOD in pass coverage after all.. not horrible.. not below average.. not average.. not decent.. but good.. he is a PLUS against the pass, not a minus.. I have been saying this forever.. I hope that these stats start getting more and more ink.. I hate all the "roy sucks in coverage" and "roy is overrated" crap that we have to read all the time.. He is the best safety in the league, period..

oh, and he isn' a dirty player at all.. he is just an incredible tackler that punishes people.. completely different things.. Roy is actually all class..

Which is why Roy is widely regarded as overrated because people claim he's the best safety in the league; he isn't.

As for Yakuza's stats, they only paint a general picture of Roy's coverage. Would need some more info to take them at face value.