I'm so tired of hearing how "dirty" RW is...

[EMMITTnROY]

Isn't the horse-collar tackle rule known as the Roy Williams rule?


Which is why Roy is widely regarded as overrated because people claim he's the best safety in the league; he isn't.

As for Yakuza's stats, they only paint a general picture of Roy's coverage. Would need some more info to take them at face value.

who do you think is better? please don't say Sean Taylor..

most people say Ed Reed.. OK..

Roy and Reed entered the league the same year..

1st year: Roy was better, finished second or third in DROY voting..
2nd year: Roy was better, finished second in DPOY voting..
3rd year: Reed was better, won DPOY
4th year: Roy was better, Reed hardly did anything, even when he wasn't hurt..

Roy has been better 3 out of their 4 years.. Roy has been to 3 Pro Bowls, Reed has been to 2 Pro Bowls.. Overall stats through 4 years are very close, but most of Reed's came in one banner year.. Roy has been very consistent.. Reed has missed games due to injury, Roy has not.. and Reed benefited from playing in a very very good defense and was allowed to just sit back in centerfield.. Roy's surrounding cast should be much better this year, and I think you will see the evidence in his numbers.. he won't have to watch out for other player's backs this year..

1. Roy
2. Reed
3. Dawkins
4. Polomalu

that's the cream of the crop right there.. next in line is Taylor, Harrison, Wilson, Sharper, Sanders..

 

[DallasDomination]

He's not dirty. But I honeslty feel He plays with a bully like mentality on the field. He hurt a couple players but that's just the name of Football.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

I for one have never considered Roy Williams "dirty;" he's just not a great tackler. He pulls guys down from behind because he's out of position alot.

And he's strong enough to do it!

 

[apickmans]

Especially from E-Girls and Foreskins fans. Just because he injures a few guys on what at the time was a legal move doesnt make him dirty. He is an elite defensive playmaker. For reference all you high and mighty Skins fans, I give you the saint Sean Taylor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXTiD83Irwk


Sean Taylor leads with his helmet at the 0:23 mark, throws a late forearm into TO's chest at the 0:31 mark, horsecollars a player at the 0:39 second mark, hits Terry Glenn helmet to helmet at the 1:40 mark, leads with his helmet at the 1:47 mark, horsecollars a player at the 2:53 mark, clothslines a player at the 3:01 mark, pulls Chris Henry down by the neck while he is in midair at the 3:22 mark, pulls McNabb down by the facemask at the 3:46 mark, pulls a player down by the head at the 4:13 mark, and gives Nate Burleson a late hit at the 4:35 mark

And that's just the first half of the video

HH, cmon man....this is bad even for you. I looked at the highlighted times and either you are really old and have bad vision or are a really big hater, maybe both. I'm also really glad you didnt comment on the 2nd half. Who know if there would of been enough space on this board for your thread.

0:23- It is a bad angle but taylor extends his arms as hes pushing Anquan Boldin for the hard tackle after he hits him with his shoulder.
0:31-Taylor throws a cheapshot to TO's chest or face..cant really tell. Its dirty and i know it, never said it wasnt.
0:39-Taylor does grab the player from the collar but does not leave his feet and drag the player down...usually that is what causes the player to become injured from the horse collared tackles.
1:40- youre reaching with this one too. Shawn Springs takes Glenn's legs from underneath him as taylor is going for the tackle. Taylor's helmet barely even touches Glenn's helmet on this play. If you wanna complain, at least complain that the hit was prob. a little late.
1:47: Hey another clip of Taylor when he was in Miami The receiver turned right into Taylor! what did you want taylor to do....turn his body away from the receiver and then make the tackle????
2:53: Ok that is a horse tackle...maybe taylor was pretending to be Williams on that play.
3:01- Taylor hits Rudi Johnson mostly with his shoulder. Look at the 2nd replay...its fast but you can catch it.
3:22 If youre gonna complain at least use the right players...85 is Chad Johnson. In that play it happens very fast also...HAHA midair, are you serious HH....johnson is running to catch the ball and Taylor brings him with around the collarbone/neck area.
3:46: This is another one where i question your vision HH. Taylor clearly grabs mcnabb by the shoulder pads. Wont go more in depth about this one cuz its so clear.
4:13: Pulls a player down by the head!?!? what!? When he is getting up u can clearly see Taylor has Moss by the shoulder pads. Unless Taylor has more than 2 arms, to do what you said he did is impossible.
4:35: HH, are you crazy?? Burleson is still inbounds when taylor barely hits him.

I'm sorry i had to do this but somebody had to. I'm starting to get the feeling that you dont like Taylor very much HH.

 

[The30YardSlant]

HH, cmon man....this is bad even for you. I looked at the highlighted times and either you are really old and have bad vision or are a really big hater, maybe both. I'm also really glad you didnt comment on the 2nd half. Who know if there would of been enough space on this board for your thread.

0:23- It is a bad angle but taylor extends his arms as hes pushing Anquan Boldin for the hard tackle after he hits him with his shoulder.
0:31-Taylor throws a cheapshot to TO's chest or face..cant really tell. Its dirty and i know it, never said it wasnt.
0:39-Taylor does grab the player from the collar but does not leave his feet and drag the player down...usually that is what causes the player to become injured from the horse collared tackles.
1:40- youre reaching with this one too. Shawn Springs takes Glenn's legs from underneath him as taylor is going for the tackle. Taylor's helmet barely even touches Glenn's helmet on this play. If you wanna complain, at least complain that the hit was prob. a little late.
1:47: Hey another clip of Taylor when he was in Miami The receiver turned right into Taylor! what did you want taylor to do....turn his body away from the receiver and then make the tackle????
2:53: Ok that is a horse tackle...maybe taylor was pretending to be Williams on that play.
3:01- Taylor hits Rudi Johnson mostly with his shoulder. Look at the 2nd replay...its fast but you can catch it.
3:22 If youre gonna complain at least use the right players...85 is Chad Johnson. In that play it happens very fast also...HAHA midair, are you serious HH....johnson is running to catch the ball and Taylor brings him with around the collarbone/neck area.
3:46: This is another one where i question your vision HH. Taylor clearly grabs mcnabb by the shoulder pads. Wont go more in depth about this one cuz its so clear.
4:13: Pulls a player down by the head!?!? what!? When he is getting up u can clearly see Taylor has Moss by the shoulder pads. Unless Taylor has more than 2 arms, to do what you said he did is impossible.
4:35: HH, are you crazy?? Burleson is still inbounds when taylor barely hits him.

I'm sorry i had to do this but somebody had to. I'm starting to get the feeling that you dont like Taylor very much HH.

Wow...just....wow....

 

[apickmans]

Wow...just....wow....

exactly what i said when i first read your post followed by "holy crap hes actually serious" . Look I would love to have some unbiased fan from another team check out the clips, but i doubt that will happen.

 

[illone]

If you're so sick of hearing about it then why bring it up?

HAHA.

 

[superpunk]

exactly what i said when i first read your post followed by "holy crap hes actually serious" . Look I would love to have some unbiased fan from another team check out the clips, but i doubt that will happen.

Your boy Taylor is just as dirty as Roy.

Which, in effect, means neither is a dirty player.

Hope that was "followable."

 

[Yakuza Rich]

As for Yakuza's stats, they only paint a general picture of Roy's coverage. Would need some more info to take them at face value.

I don't understand your point. Both Joyner and PFP chart every single of play of every single game of every safety that played last year. PFP is saying that when it comes to Roy's coverage, he finished 6th among safeties that had at least 40 passes thrown his way. And according to Joyner, Roy did very well on deep passes and when you look at all of his passes he defensed (short, intermediate, and long) he finished 14th overall in coverage for all safeties.

I'll admit that there are flaws to both of their books, but generally they give a good ballpark of what's going on. It certainly beats the "I've seen Roy in coverage and he sucks. HTTR!" line.

Rich............

 

[apickmans]

Your boy Taylor is just as dirty as Roy.

Which, in effect, means neither is a dirty player.

Hope that was "followable."

Superpunk,

Yeah Taylor can be dirty sometimes, i agree. Both play with a mean streak that I love.....I just thought it was crazy how HH can give so much false information in one post. Thats all. I could easily look up a RW highlight film and say 0:35 Roy led with his helmet blah blah when it prob. was just a good hard hit etc.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

I don't understand your point. Both Joyner and PFP chart every single of play of every single game of every safety that played last year. PFP is saying that when it comes to Roy's coverage, he finished 6th among safeties that had at least 40 passes thrown his way. And according to Joyner, Roy did very well on deep passes and when you look at all of his passes he defensed (short, intermediate, and long) he finished 14th overall in coverage for all safeties.

I'll admit that there are flaws to both of their books, but generally they give a good ballpark of what's going on. It certainly beats the "I've seen Roy in coverage and he sucks. HTTR!" line.

Rich............

OK, so one says 6th and one says 14th.. that averages out to 10th.. out of 64 starting safeties in the league.. Which means that Roy is in the top 15% in the NFL as far as pass coverage goes for safeties.. and as far as tackling, intimidation, and run stopping go? he is number 1 out of 64 starting safeties in the league.. which would put him in the top 1%..

 

[superpunk]

Superpunk,

Yeah Taylor can be dirty sometimes, i agree. Both play with a mean streak that I love.....I just thought it was crazy how HH can give so much false information in one post. Thats all. I could easily look up a RW highlight film and say 0:35 Roy led with his helmet blah blah when it prob. was just a good hard hit etc.

No doubt.

But if you can recognize that, HH's post probably wasn't meant for you. It was meant for those misguided souls who actually believe Roy is a dirty player.

It was random, no doubt, though.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

OK, so one says 6th and one says 14th.. that averages out to 10th.. out of 64 starting safeties in the league.. Which means that Roy is in the top 15% in the NFL as far as pass coverage goes for safeties.. and as far as tackling, intimidation, and run stopping go? he is number 1 out of 64 starting safeties in the league.. which would put him in the top 1%..

That averages out to 10th, but both utilize a different set of equations.

PFP uses "stop rate." I can't remember the exact definition, but it's basically saying something to the affect that if a pass is thrown to a receiver that is your responsiblity and you hold that pass to a certain amount of yards, you are either successful or non successful.

Like I said, I can't remember the exact definition, but it would be something to the affect that if receiver A catches a 5 yard pass on first down and that's Roy's responsibility, it would be considered a successful stop by Roy since the receiver needed to get 6 yards for it to be successful. Again, that's not the exact definition, but it's similar to that.

Joyner looks at things like completion % allowed, yards allowed per passing attempt and does it from a perspective on deep, short, and intermediate. He'll also look at things like "tight coverage" where a defensive player may be right on the receiver and things like coverage where the receiver may have 2-3 steps on the defender.

So I wouldn't necessary label Roy in the top 15% by just averaging the two rankings since they use different equations. I would say that both of them show that Roy's coverage is at least pretty solid and not even remotely as bad as it's said to be.


Rich.........

 

[sacase]

I for one have never considered Roy Williams "dirty;" he's just not a great tackler. He pulls guys down from behind because he's out of position alot.

OMFG, must you lie to yourself to make your boy Bang Bang seem so much better? I am tired of hearing this out of position crap, infact please quit parroting ART, he will embarrass you. Roy has been consitantly called one of the best tacklers in the NFL, he is no more out of position than any other player in the NFL. But hey, I guess you get all pro honors by being a poor tackler and being out of position alot.

 

[apickmans]

No doubt.

But if you can recognize that, HH's post probably wasn't meant for you. It was meant for those misguided souls who actually believe Roy is a dirty player.

It was random, no doubt, though.

Well I saw it as an attempt to make Taylor seem like nothing but a dirty player by making up stuff that doesnt happen on his highlight clip. I mean HH didnt even comment on the 2nd half of the video! haha.

 

[superpunk]

Well I saw it as an attempt to make Taylor seem like nothing but a dirty player by making up stuff that doesnt happen on his highlight clip.

What do you think we see on the lame-*** attempts to make Roy seem like a dirty player?

See the point?

 

[redskins1]

my take on sean and roy,roy is known for big hits and so is sean..roy's big hits come against players in awkward position and cant protect themselves..sean on the other hand has more hits face to face with the ball carriers and knocks the hell out of them...and there is a reason roy makes alot of tackles with the horse collar move,he takes bad angles and ends up chasing..just my take!!!

 

[superpunk]

my take on sean and roy,roy is known for big hits and so is sean..roy's big hits come against players in awkward position and cant protect themselves..sean on the other hand has more hits face to face with the ball carriers and knocks the hell out of them...and there is a reason roy makes alot of tackles with the horse collar move,he takes bad angles and ends up chasing..just my take!!!

Your take is worthless.

Thanks for contributing to the thread, though....

 

[random Cs]

who do you think is better? please don't say Sean Taylor..

Sean isn't better.. yet.

IMO, Adrian Wilson is the best SS in the game, playing behind one of the worst D-Line's in the game.

I don't think there's any argument that Roy and Polamalu don't play on the same level. Stats don't paint the picture and Polamalu has such free reign in that defensive scheme, he's around every play.

Ed has health issues, so I dunno about him anymore.

I don't understand your point. Both Joyner and PFP chart every single of play of every single game of every safety that played last year. PFP is saying that when it comes to Roy's coverage, he finished 6th among safeties that had at least 40 passes thrown his way. And according to Joyner, Roy did very well on deep passes and when you look at all of his passes he defensed (short, intermediate, and long) he finished 14th overall in coverage for all safeties.

I'll admit that there are flaws to both of their books, but generally they give a good ballpark of what's going on. It certainly beats the "I've seen Roy in coverage and he sucks. HTTR!" line.

Rich............

I said it gives a ballpark. I don't know what "stop rate" or "succesful deep pass defense" really means. For all I know, it gives credit to a safety for a poorly thrown deep pass. Not to mention how many of those passes were Patrick Ramsey throwing to Rod Gardner, or McNabb going to deep to whatever scrub receiver playing #1 for Philly.

 

[redskins1]

superpunk,thanks for your unsolicited comment!!!!