IMO best value with a top four pick New Years Eve before combine

[Killerinstinct]

I don't think you are as privy to their thoughts as you think you are. To rule something out as a zero percent chance, really shows that it's your bias and thoughts that are creating this, not theirs. I do agree that Jerry believes that we are closer to a SB than we actually are, but I don't think Jason's seat is as hot as some here think. Yes, another 4-5 win season would likely be the end of his tenure here, but none of the none QB prospects in this draft would have made a difference. Not Bosa, Tunstil, Ramsey, Hargroves, Smith or Myles. Maybe we'd have 5 wins and be going for 6 with one of the LBers, but that's about it. And I'm not even saying definitely Goff or Lynch would have been able to step in as the back-up QB this year, all I'm saying is if the both QBs grade out roughly the same, or if the 2nd QB has roughly the same grade as the remaining players on the board, you take him and don't give it a second thought.

OK let's expand it a little bit. You have your group evaluating the plan. Who would that consist of?

Jerry, Stephen, Jason, Mcclay, Lineham, Marinelli, position coaches.

Who is standing on the table saying, "we have to take the qb?"

Is he still standing on the table when the 1st QB is taken arguing that they should take the 2nd one at no 4?

Jerry and Stephen are both going to be arguing for a trade down to add more impact players when there are so many holes to fill.
Jason is going to be advocating for a player that is going to help now.
Lineham is going to be advocating for an offensive player that is going to help now.
Marinelli is going to be advocating for a defensive player that is going to help now.
Position coaches are going to be pointing out the merits of players at their particular positions.
Mcclay isn't going to want a player at no 4 that makes no impact.

Who is going to be screaming, we have to take the rookie QB at no 4 to groom? Especially knowing they would still need to bring in a veteran that could play if Romo go's down.
By the time the draft comes around they will have already signed a veteran backup or traded for one and some will be saying Moore or Showers is the guy they can groom.

Others will say we can get a qb to groom in later rounds.

Others will say Romo is still under contract for 3 more years and by the time his contract is up we will have wasted most of the rookie contract for a highly drafted QB.

It's not my bias that leads to this line of thinking. It is just putting myself in the other peoples shoes.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

OK let's expand it a little bit. You have your group evaluating the plan. Who would that consist of?

Jerry, Stephen, Jason, Mcclay, Lineham, Marinelli, position coaches.

Who is standing on the table saying, "we have to take the qb?"

Is he still standing on the table when the 1st QB is taken arguing that they should take the 2nd one at no 4?

Jerry and Stephen are both going to be arguing for a trade down to add more impact players when there are so many holes to fill.
Jason is going to be advocating for a player that is going to help now.
Lineham is going to be advocating for an offensive player that is going to help now.
Marinelli is going to be advocating for a defensive player that is going to help now.
Position coaches are going to be pointing out the merits of players at their particular positions.
Mcclay isn't going to want a player at no 4 that makes no impact.

Who is going to be screaming, we have to take the rookie QB at no 4 to groom? Especially knowing they would still need to bring in a veteran that could play if Romo go's down.
By the time the draft comes around they will have already signed a veteran backup or traded for one and some will be saying Moore or Showers is the guy they can groom.

Others will say we can get a qb to groom in later rounds.

Others will say Romo is still under contract for 3 more years and by the time his contract is up we will have wasted most of the rookie contract for a highly drafted QB.

Again, I don't think Jason's seat is as hot as most here want it to be. If a QB fits the criteria I mentioned earlier, he will stand on the table for a QB. We know as recently as 2011, he was prepared to take Andy Dalton, only to see him go a few picks before we picked in round 2. Obviously not the same situation, because we're talking 4th pick vs, 42nd or so, but Andy Dalton was not the prospect that either of these two QBs are. Goff and Lynch both will be gone within a few picks of 4, barring one of them having a horrible showing at a pro day or something along those lines.

Lineham may as well, not sure, but mainly because I don't think his seat is all that hot. Besides, rookie QBs often buy a coaching staff more time.

And McClay will be interested in taking the best prospect, which again, if the 2nd rated QB meets the criteria I said earlier, that elevates them to that spot

It's not my bias that leads to this line of thinking. It is just putting myself in the other peoples shoes.

people you have never met, let alone discussed this draft with, correct?

 

[Killerinstinct]

Again, I don't think Jason's seat is as hot as most here want it to be. If a QB fits the criteria I mentioned earlier, he will stand on the table for a QB. We know as recently as 2011, he was prepared to take Andy Dalton, only to see him go a few picks before we picked in round 2. Obviously not the same situation, because we're talking 4th pick vs, 42nd or so, but Andy Dalton was not the prospect that either of these two QBs are. Goff and Lynch both will be gone within a few picks of 4, barring one of them having a horrible showing at a pro day or something along those lines.

Lineham may as well, not sure, but mainly because I don't think his seat is all that hot. Besides, rookie QBs often buy a coaching staff more time.

And McClay will be interested in taking the best prospect, which again, if the 2nd rated QB meets the criteria I said earlier, that elevates them to that spot



people you have never met, let alone discussed this draft with, correct?

"Besides, rookie QBs often buy a coaching staff more time"

This is the key and the line of thinking a new coach and staff can have. Garret and Linehams seats may not be hot yet but if they don't make huge strides next year, their seats will be burning and they both know it. Neither of them are looking 3 or 4 years down the road thinking man this rookie qb just might help us some day.

No, I have never had the opportunity to discuss the draft with any of them but that doesn't mean I can't put myself in their shoes and think the way they would.

Again, they are likely to add a veteran QB prior to the draft even happening. Trade or F.A. or whatever. I am sure they will all convince themselves that the new QB will give them a chance to win now if Romo is out.

So now they are preparing for the draft and looking for ways to help the team. How many of them are looking years down the line when they think they can win now?
Ironically Jerry will probably be the only one advocating to draft a QB at all and I know he wont want to do it with pick no 4. He definitely wont want to do it if the no 1 QB is already gone.

I really don't see it happening. Especially while Romo still has 3 years left on his contract.

2017 draft with a mid to late 1st rd pick when Romo only has 2 years left. Maybe? If the backup they bring in isn't looking great and if they don't think they have a QB to groom at that point.

The incentive and desire to win now is too strong and too many livelihoods are dependent upon it.

There are too many plug and play players that are going to be available at 4 to pass up plus I really believe Jerry and Stephen are going to want to turn pick 4 into multiple players. Not one that they hope is contributing in a few years.

 

[fivetwos]

I refuse to even think about a top 5 pick because I'm expecting they win on Sunday.

I hear you. I feel it coming. Cant even suck correctly.

 

[fivetwos]

Goff is going first overall. Not to Tennessee, but whoever they trade the pick to, probably SF.

Bosa will go 2nd. Tunesil 3rd. After that who knows...and I see a significant drop between 3 and 4.

We need to somehow end up at 3 after Sunday, not 4.

The next players look to be Ramsey and Smith, and they seem like 8-12 type players, not top 5.

 

[MrPhil]

No way Cleveland passes on a QB.

The best we can hope for is Tennessee falls in love with Tunsil which means the draft falls like this

1. Tenn- Tunsil
2. Cle- QB1
3. SD- Bosa (will not trade down with SF with him on the board)
4. Dal- QB2

Those are the top 4 players imo

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Goff is going first overall. Not to Tennessee, but whoever they trade the pick to, probably SF.

Bosa will go 2nd. Tunesil 3rd. After that who knows...and I see a significant drop between 3 and 4.

We need to somehow end up at 3 after Sunday, not 4.

The next players look to be Ramsey and Smith, and they seem like 8-12 type players, not top 5.

Tennessee won't be able to trade the pick. 5 is too far to move up for the 49ers, they can't afford to give up the future #1s that will make it worth it. If there was only 1 QB worth taking, they'd have a shot, but I think CLE will stay put and take the best QB on the board.

 

[VACowboy]

OK let's expand it a little bit. You have your group evaluating the plan. Who would that consist of?

Jerry, Stephen, Jason, Mcclay, Lineham, Marinelli, position coaches.

Who is standing on the table saying, "we have to take the qb?"

...snip...

It's not my bias that leads to this line of thinking. It is just putting myself in the other peoples shoes.

• McClay is a scout. I think he advocates for the best player on his board, whoever that is. If he believes the remaining QB is a franchise player, he'll be standing on the table.
• I think Steven is most interested in the overall health of the organization, which could definitely mean Goff or Lynch, IMHO.
• I think Goff or Lynch being "the second best QB" will have zero effect on whether the Cowboys draft him or not. Either the Cowboys believe the guy is the best pick for the team, all things considered, or they don't.
• I like Goff, but I don't see a big difference between he and Lynch as far as their ability to succeed at the next level. Neither one is John Elway or Troy Aikman, but they aren't Christian Ponder and Blake Bortles, either.
• Right now, I don' think anything is 100%. There's nothing rational that I'd bet my house the Cowboys won't do in late April.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

• McClay is a scout. I think he advocates for the best player on his board, whoever that is. If he believes the remaining QB is a franchise player, he'll be standing on the table.
• I think Steven is most interested in the overall health of the organization, which could definitely mean Goff or Lynch, IMHO.
• I think Goff or Lynch being "the second best QB" will have zero effect on whether the Cowboys draft him or not. Either the Cowboys believe the guy is the best pick for the team, all things considered, or they don't.
• I like Goff, but I don't see a big difference between he and Lynch as far as their ability to succeed at the next level. Neither one is John Elway or Troy Aikman, but they aren't Christian Ponder and Blake Bortles, either.
• Right now, I don' think anything is 100%. There's nothing rational that I'd bet my house the Cowboys won't do in late April.

only thing I disagree with id your knock on Bortles. He and Ponder do not belong in the same sentence.

 

[VACowboy]

only thing I disagree with id your knock on Bortles. He and Ponder do not belong in the same sentence.

Fair enough.

To clarify, I think Goff and Lynch are a step below Luck as prospects and a step above Bortles.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Fair enough.

To clarify, I think Goff and Lynch are a step below Luck as prospects and a step above Bortles.

I don't think either compare to Luck, but Bortles was a pretty good prospect.

 

[VACowboy]

I don't think either compare to Luck, but Bortles was a pretty good prospect.

I think Bortles compares most closely to Lynch: big guy, big arm, very athletic. Goff is smaller and less athletic, but looks like the more gifted passer to me.

Would you pick Bortles at #4? I'm not sure I would.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I think Bortles compares most closely to Lynch: big guy, big arm, very athletic. Goff is smaller and less athletic, but looks like the more gifted passer to me.

Would you pick Bortles at #4? I'm not sure I would.

yea, I would

 

[sureletsrace]

"Besides, rookie QBs often buy a coaching staff more time"

This is the key and the line of thinking a new coach and staff can have. Garret and Linehams seats may not be hot yet but if they don't make huge strides next year, their seats will be burning and they both know it. Neither of them are looking 3 or 4 years down the road thinking man this rookie qb just might help us some day.

No, I have never had the opportunity to discuss the draft with any of them but that doesn't mean I can't put myself in their shoes and think the way they would.

Again, they are likely to add a veteran QB prior to the draft even happening. Trade or F.A. or whatever. I am sure they will all convince themselves that the new QB will give them a chance to win now if Romo is out.

So now they are preparing for the draft and looking for ways to help the team. How many of them are looking years down the line when they think they can win now?
Ironically Jerry will probably be the only one advocating to draft a QB at all and I know he wont want to do it with pick no 4. He definitely wont want to do it if the no 1 QB is already gone.

I really don't see it happening. Especially while Romo still has 3 years left on his contract.

2017 draft with a mid to late 1st rd pick when Romo only has 2 years left. Maybe? If the backup they bring in isn't looking great and if they don't think they have a QB to groom at that point.

The incentive and desire to win now is too strong and too many livelihoods are dependent upon it.

There are too many plug and play players that are going to be available at 4 to pass up plus I really believe Jerry and Stephen are going to want to turn pick 4 into multiple players. Not one that they hope is contributing in a few years.

Just because QB Bob is more highly ranked than QB Joe on the media's board doesn't mean that he is on the Cowboys board.

If Goff gets taken before the Cowboys pick, they might be fine with that, because they might have Lynch ranked as their #1 QB.

If that makes sense.