Improving at LG

[CATCH17]

Where are you going with this? Leary was great for us...I acknowledged that what we replaced him with was much worse.

I was using it as an example to help get your point across.

 

[dfense]

LCollins only gave up 5 sacks all year against a Murderer's Row of DEs and OLBs

He was more than capable and you don't take strong RTs and make them OGs

There were plenty, and I mean plenty of times Dak had to bail because the rusher flew right around Collins. Sacks don't tell the whole story. Von Miller beat him for 2 sacks. Kerrigan ran by him all day. He was a much better guard than he is a RT.

 

[CATCH17]

Cooper is fine for another cheap year

Draft an OG/C and groom him for 2019

We have to overcome our coach and one way to do that is with the O-line.

If they try to go cheap they will have another bad season because their system isn't good enough.

WE need an O-line that imposes their will and minimizes the Garrett factor.

 

[condoin125]

I don't know what you were watching this season, but there were times when Cooper was the PFF highest graded player on the field.

That would be awesome if not for the fact that I can easily look this information up (like I just did) and confirm that wasn't true. He was never once the highest graded player for our team, much less even the highest graded player on the field. There was one single game where he even graded in our top five after a game....vs the packers "vaunted D", he was our fifth highest graded player. That was the best he did all year.

 

[Creeper]

I've stated in previous posts that our line this season was drug down by the play at the LG and RT positions. The players we lost there were much better than the guys who filled in those positions this season. For some reason people on this board (and back on DC) have convinced themselves that Collins played well, when in reality he didn't. We don't have to rehash that debate though and I can only hope that we draft a tackle that can push him.

When it comes to LG though, I have to believe that most people realize that Cooper was trash soup in 2017. Many hoped that his play would elevate between Smith and Frederick but that simply wasn't the case....he's a bad player and we get nothing from him at that position. We could draft a Guard but we already know that we need to draft a Tackle (for depth at the very least) and really can't afford to be picking two OL players, much less hope that we can find two good ones in the draft.

So I want to throw a name out there that I'd like us to go after in free agency: Justin Pugh from the Giants. He was a first round pick of theirs in 2013; he started his career with them as a RT where he performed at an okay level before moving to LG. He was much a much better guard for them his first two years doing it (2015 and 2016) and in fact, he graded out better in 2016 as a LG than Leary did for us in 2016. The kicker is that his 2017 was bad....there could be a ton of explanations for this....he did play through injuries, the Oline talent around him regressed (particularly at Center) and the entire Giants team was a shipwreck in 2017.

I think this could benefit us however....I think his poor 2017 could simply be an anomaly and he could return to form. The Giants don't appear interested in keeping him and we could perhaps get him on a decent deal considering his play last season. I especially like his chances to perform well between Smith and Frederick; I'm at least confident that he outperforms Cooper there. He's 27 and I would certainly be interested in getting him on a 3-4 year deal. Thoughts?

I thought it was a mistake to move Collins out to RT. He was good at LG and with time he will get better - or would have gotten better. I think he will improve at RT too. Last year was a new experience for him and while he struggled at times he did not break.

But I believe the Cowboys would be wise to invest again in their offensive line. In fact, they should plan to keep the OL in place even if it means cutting players in skill positions at some point. I keep repeating this but I think dominating the OL and DL makes all the other position players better. I would rather overpay Martin, Smith Frederick and whoever else and have a dominant OL than to overpay guys like Dez and Beasley. Its clear if the Cowboys are going to win anything they are going to have to negate the Philly pass rush and keep the pressure off Dak.

 

[Creeper]

At what cost?

How much can a team spend on one position group? Tyron, Beard, and LC already got contracts and Martin is about to get a BIG ONE.

I like the idea but it needs to come at a YUGE bargain.

If a dominant OL wins games then why worry about the cost? They paid Romo over $100 million. Dez is $16.5 against the cap this year. Perhaps that money is spent more wisely on the guys who protect the QB and open holes for the RBs.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I've stated in previous posts that our line this season was drug down by the play at the LG and RT positions. The players we lost there were much better than the guys who filled in those positions this season. For some reason people on this board (and back on DC) have convinced themselves that Collins played well, when in reality he didn't. We don't have to rehash that debate though and I can only hope that we draft a tackle that can push him.

When it comes to LG though, I have to believe that most people realize that Cooper was trash soup in 2017. Many hoped that his play would elevate between Smith and Frederick but that simply wasn't the case....he's a bad player and we get nothing from him at that position. We could draft a Guard but we already know that we need to draft a Tackle (for depth at the very least) and really can't afford to be picking two OL players, much less hope that we can find two good ones in the draft.

So I want to throw a name out there that I'd like us to go after in free agency: Justin Pugh from the Giants. He was a first round pick of theirs in 2013; he started his career with them as a RT where he performed at an okay level before moving to LG. He was much a much better guard for them his first two years doing it (2015 and 2016) and in fact, he graded out better in 2016 as a LG than Leary did for us in 2016. The kicker is that his 2017 was bad....there could be a ton of explanations for this....he did play through injuries, the Oline talent around him regressed (particularly at Center) and the entire Giants team was a shipwreck in 2017.

I think this could benefit us however....I think his poor 2017 could simply be an anomaly and he could return to form. The Giants don't appear interested in keeping him and we could perhaps get him on a decent deal considering his play last season. I especially like his chances to perform well between Smith and Frederick; I'm at least confident that he outperforms Cooper there. He's 27 and I would certainly be interested in getting him on a 3-4 year deal. Thoughts?

its funny, that there was so much anger/hate and debate about free sucking and now, its Collins sucking. perhaps free wasn't as bad.

I agree that the LG position was a big hole on the OL and flipping between Green and Cooper should tell you everything. With that said, we can't have 5 pro bowlers on the OL. Collins wasn't bad, he was average to above average. good on run plays and gave up some pressure when he lost his technique. keep in mind that was his first year at RT.

we do have have some options in FA and draft. I don't think we should draft a tackle in the 1st round, as there are bigger needs. If a really good one falls to second that we feel can start as RT, then Collins can move to LG, which he played well. if not then in the 3rd or 4th round, we can consider either a LG or RT, depending on who rates/ranks higher on our board. its often easier to find guards in the draft than tackles.

I am not sold on Pugh. he sucked at giants. 1st round pick or not. he was a turnstile and giants biggest problems were their OL this year. so taking somebody else's trash ala Thornton and Carroll is not going to work.

 

[condoin125]

its funny, that there was so much anger/hate and debate about free sucking and now, its Collins sucking. perhaps free wasn't as bad.

I agree that the LG position was a big hole on the OL and flipping between Green and Cooper should tell you everything. With that said, we can't have 5 pro bowlers on the OL. Collins wasn't bad, he was average to above average. good on run plays and gave up some pressure when he lost his technique. keep in mind that was his first year at RT.

we do have have some options in FA and draft. I don't think we should draft a tackle in the 1st round, as there are bigger needs. If a really good one falls to second that we feel can start as RT, then Collins can move to LG, which he played well. if not then in the 3rd or 4th round, we can consider either a LG or RT, depending on who rates/ranks higher on our board. its often easier to find guards in the draft than tackles.

I am not sold on Pugh. he sucked at giants. 1st round pick or not. he was a turnstile and giants biggest problems were their OL this year. so taking somebody else's trash ala Thornton and Carroll is not going to work.

Agree with much of what you said, particularly about Free. Not sure why everyone is so quick to call Pugh trash when he had two good years before this most recent season.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Cooper was average should return on a decent deal and draft one in the mid rounds to groom

 

[Point-of-the-Star]

I agree about guard. They need to move Collins back to guard. He's not a tackle. He gets beat by speed and he has a hard time holding his blocks. Start looking for a real RT.

Totally agree with the OP and this by CC. I'm not that much more than a game by game observer And I got tired of Collins not having a tackle's ability. He's devastating as a guard, especially in the run game. Get him back at guard and let's get a real tackle for the RT position. (Although I still think we need to go D in the 1st 2 rounds).

 

[cern]

cooper improved as the season began to wind down. Collins flat out stepped it up as the season wound down. we lost a good coach in frank Pollack. hope the new guy can do as well.

 

[Nightman]

There were plenty, and I mean plenty of times Dak had to bail because the rusher flew right around Collins. Sacks don't tell the whole story. Von Miller beat him for 2 sacks. Kerrigan ran by him all day. He was a much better guard than he is a RT.

LCollins was 3x better than Doug Free

Getting beat by Von Miller and Kerrigan is OK

Wasting him at LG is stupid and going backwards

 

[Irvin88_4life]

No team is jumping to get Cooper and there's a reason for that...figure it out.

Cooper played very well this season. Not really sure what games you were watching. Other then the Atlanta game Cooper did pretty well. He has blocked 2 guys at once and was good getting to the second level.

Collins went against the best pass rushers in the game and shut them down most of the time.

I'm not against bringing in a LG. The thing is the OL needs chemistry, they need to play together. The starters this season were all 1st round guys. You can't get better then 5 first round picks, again they need to learn to play together and gel. You can't keep rotating guys in and think they will excel

 

[Nightman]

Agree, plus you keep your eyes open for an OG that is cut for cap room. Cooper wasn't trash like the OP claims but I would definitely upgrade from him if the opportunity presented itself.

Also I think Kadeem Edwards could be a sleeper that is on the 53 in 2018 and starts in 2019. Leary was a practice squad guy his first year, OL take time to develop unless you are a physical monster like Tyron or Fred.

LG is a pretty easy position to fill

I am not even sold that CGreen can't compete for snaps...... his disaster at ATL was more about technique and not ability

 

[Irvin88_4life]

LCollins was 3x better than Doug Free

Getting beat by Von Miller and Kerrigan is OK

Wasting him at LG is stupid and going backwards

Collins shut down Miller all game. It wasn't until the end of the game when Miller was coming as hard as he could to get a sack and was having to get a running start to try and beat Collins. Eventually he got 1 sack but Miller tried everything he could to get it

 

[gmoney112]

Meh. Cooper did okay.

I'm all for bringing him back and taking a G that can possibly play Swing Tackle.

I also want to see if the new OL coach can get Green back up to speed.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I've stated in previous posts that our line this season was drug down by the play at the LG and RT positions.

Cooper wasn't as good as Leary but was playing well towards the end of the year.

Collins was at least as good as Free. Did you forget how terrible Doug "The Human Turnstile" Free really was? Collins got better as the year went along also.

Both Cooper and Collins will be fine as starters for the Cowboys. It's the backups where there are big question marks.

 

[Verdict]

I'm really confused...so many on this board have complained about our lack of moves in free agency and many of the same people want the team more "Dak friendly." This could be a free agency move that's not too cap heavy and will help protect Dak and create another running lane for Zeke. One of the reasons our line was the best from 2014-2016 was because we could literally run behind every position on the line. We couldn't do that in 2017....and once teams figure that out it makes your entire run game more predictable.

I don't think anyone is saying we don't want to improve the line. I think they are just daubing Pugh is probably not the right guy to improve it.

 

[Swanny]

No team is jumping to get Cooper and there's a reason for that...figure it out.

Has free agency started?

 

[armadillooutlaw]

I'm up for upgrading LG, especially given how much the offense relies on the running game.
A great LG makes this unit better than the 2014 and 2016 OLs.