Improving Witten's Production

[OmerV]

Or making the Cowboys offense more dynamic?

No, it would not make the offense more dynamic. You have him catching 43% more passes than the player with the most catches in the NFL last year, and double the catches of most top NFL WR's. The guy is a RB, and very close to the best in the NFL, but you want minimize his impact as a runner and make him the most used receiver in the NFL.

Zeke's ability to catch passes is a bonus, and one we should take advantage of, but the reality is we have other players who can catch passes too, but there is nobody on the team that can come even remotely close to him as a RB. As a runner he brings an element to the offense very few teams have.

 

[Bleu Star]

No, it would not make the offense more dynamic. You have him catching 43% more passes than the player with the most catches in the NFL last year, and double the catches of most top NFL WR's. The guy is a RB, and very close to the best in the NFL, but you want minimize his impact as a runner and make him the most used receiver in the NFL.

Zeke's ability to catch passes is a bonus, and one we should take advantage of, but the reality is we have other players who can catch passes too, but there is nobody on the team that can come even remotely close to him as a RB. As a runner he brings an element to the offense very few teams have.

Do you know how difficult it is to deal with yet another receiving threat out of the backfield? One of Zeke's caliber? Defensive coordinators hope we don't so that. Believe that they seriously don't want to see us doing that.

 

[Sarek]

How early would you want a TE? 2nd rd?

Not sure, i don't know the draft well enough to say, but it seems pretty evident that one is needed who can contribute now.

 

[SoupcanSam]

Not sure, i don't know the draft well enough to say, but it seems pretty evident that one is needed who can contribute now.

I believe the cowboys should atleast go with the experiment of splittng snaps with witten and gathers before drafting a TE. No shame to witten but it's time to see what we have.

The cowboys have definitly not put the time in exploring the rest of the depth at the position while finessing witten the last few years.

It's time now.

 

[OmerV]

Do you know how difficult it is to deal with yet another receiving threat out of the backfield? One of Zeke's caliber? Defensive coordinators hope we don't so that. Believe that they seriously don't want to see us doing that.

Do you know how difficult it is to defend against a team that can run the ball down your throat and control the tempo of the game. Do you know how much that kind of running game opens up passing opportunities?

Do you know how much less effective on a per catch basis Zeke would be if they threw to him 43% more than the next closest guy in the entire league, and twice as often as most top recievers, and opposing defenses knew to game plan for it? A big reason a receiver out of the backfield is effective is defensive game plans focus on other receivers and the running game. In other words, part of why it can be highly effective is it is a wrinkle to the offense that opposing defenses aren't always ready for.

You need to understand what you are talking about. You aren't talking about Zeke being another receiving threat out of the backfield, you are talking about Zeke catching more than twice as many passes as anyone else. You are talking about him being THE receiving threat - the #1 receiver, and that wouldn't be remotely as productive as you think.

Dak completed 308 passes last year. If Zeke were to catch 10 passes a game (160 receptions) that would be 52% of all receptions going to a Zeke. You are talking about Zeke getting a majority of both the carries and the receptions, so you are suggesting severely limiting what opposing defenses would have to game plan for.

 

[Bleu Star]

Do you know how difficult it is to defend against a team that can run the ball down your throat and control the tempo of the game. Do you know how much that kind of running game opens up passing opportunities?

Do you know how much less effective on a per catch basis Zeke would be if they threw to him 43% more than the next closest guy in the entire league, and twice as often as most top recievers, and opposing defenses knew to game plan for it? A big reason a receiver out of the backfield is effective is defensive game plans focus on other receivers and the running game. In other words, part of why it can be highly effective is it is a wrinkle to the offense that opposing defenses aren't always ready for.

You need to understand what you are talking about. You aren't talking about Zeke being another receiving threat out of the backfield, you are talking about Zeke catching more than twice as many passes as anyone else. You are talking about him being THE receiving threat - the #1 receiver, and that wouldn't be remotely as productive as you think.

Dak completed 308 passes last year. If Zeke were to catch 10 passes a game (160 receptions) that would be 52% of all receptions going to a Zeke. You are talking about Zeke getting a majority of both the carries and the receptions, so you are suggesting severely limiting what opposing defenses would have to game plan for.

Ok Jesus. 5 to 8 passes. But do it and become more dynamic with him.

 

[Bleu Star]

Do more...

 

[OmerV]

Ok Jesus. 5 to 8 passes. But do it and become more dynamic with him.

Not even 5 to 8 ... maybe 3-5 receptions, and his carries can't be limited to 15 because that would severely diminish the running game. Zeke's value is in making the running game tick, and the receiving is a supplement, not the other way around.

 

[Bleu Star]

Not even 5 to 8 ... maybe 3-5 receptions, and his carries can't be limited to 15 because that would severely diminish the running game. Zeke's value is in making the running game tick, and the receiving is a supplement, not the other way around.

5-8

 

[OmerV]

5-8

8 receptions per game would still give him 128 - 16 more receptions than the next closest guy last year, and still dramatically more than any other receiver on the Cowboys (or any other team). Hell, even 5 receptions per game would likely make him the top receiver on the Cowboys, and on many other teams. 5 is about a top end - that would be a big time supplement to his 22-24 carries per game.

LaVeon Bell is the prototype for the kind of player you are wanting Zeke to be - the dual threat guy - and in his peak years he has 75-85 receptions, not 128, and certainly not 160. You are going way beyond the realm of reality.

 

[Bleu Star]

8 receptions per game would still give him 128 - 16 more receptions than the next closest guy last year, and still dramatically more than any other receiver on the Cowboys (or any other team). Hell, even 5 receptions per game would likely make him the top receiver on the Cowboys, and on many other teams. 5 is about a top end - that would be a big time supplement to his 22-24 carries per game.

LaVeon Bell is the prototype for the kind of player you are wanting Zeke to be - the dual threat guy - and in his peak years he has 75-85 receptions, not 128, and certainly not 160. You are going way beyond the realm of reality.

18 carries & 8 receptions on avg. I'm straight.

 

[OmerV]

18 carries & 8 receptions on avg. I'm straight.

I disagree completely, but that's at least closer to reality than 15 and 10. In no way does it make sense to use one of the best runners in football to catch more passes than anyone else in the NFL.

 

[Bleu Star]

I disagree completely, but that's at least closer to reality than 15 and 10. In no way does it make sense to use one of the best runners in football to catch more passes than anyone else in the NFL.

Well you know how it is on message boards. Opposing views never mesh.

 

[OmerV]

Well you know how it is on message boards. Opposing views never mesh.

Opposing views never mesh anywhere.

 

[Captain-Crash]

what's this obsession with Rico. he's behind hanna, swaim and jarwin.. sheesh... the legend of Rico.......... heck go ahead and put him in the ROH and HOF... SHEESH

 

[Bleu Star]

Opposing views never mesh anywhere.

We can always provide some level of hope.

 

[glimmerman]

Just get these WR open and everyone’s production can pick up. Hard for production to pick up when you are a security blanket. Being the last emergency pass option is not gonna get us points.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Witten is an older player and having watched Popovich manage older players well beyond their years I have become a big proponent of the less is more school of thought with aging athletes.

Witten should sit out series and rotate. I think we would get similar or better production and allow others to contribute improving the net for the position.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Zeke wasn't a high target back in college and he hasn't exactly demonstrated that he has the route running chops of other elite pass catching backs. We threw the ball to Murray a ton because we knew he was good in that capacity.

Maybe we should acknowledge that so far this coaching staff and the Alabama coaching staff both didn't think throwing to Zeke was particularly productive and go from there?

 

[OmerV]

We can always provide some level of hope.

I'll just say one more thing for you to consider - not entirely different than I've said before, but a little different approach.

Consider that there is a point of diminishing returns .... that more of something isn't always better, especially if it takes away from something else.

POINT A: Running 24+ times a game Zeke can absolutely dominate a game. The more you take away from that, the less ability he will have to dominate games.

POINT B: Let's say Antonio Brown, who is either the best or at least one of the best WR's in football, is also very good at running reverses (he is), so, the Steelers decide to start running reverses 7-8 times a game instead of 1-2 times a game, and naturally the opposing defense begins to recognize it more quickly, and in subsequent games the opposing defense actually game plans for it. No more element of surprise, no more running a play the opposing defense hasn't game planned for ..... and now the results on each end around aren't so good anymore, and in fact, the defense starts to meet the receiver in the backfield before he ever gets a chance to get to the outside. Then there's the issue of Antonio Brown being gassed on plays they might need him as a receiver, or possibly getting hurt, or just losing some focus on what his primary talent is - which is getting open and catching passes.

Same applies to an elite RB catching passes. With a moderate number of catches, each reception is very productive because it is a supplement to the RB's efforts, rather than the focus of it. But if used to often teams come to recognize what the Cowboys are doing, and game plan for it, the opportunity for big plays will diminish, and the possibility the opposing defense will recognize it and make a big play of their own is increased. Again - a point of diminishing returns.

And like with the Antonio Brown example, the guy needed to carry the running game for the team will sometimes be gassed, and he may have more difficulty getting into the flow of the running game, which is important as most runners will tell you the more they run the ball and see the blocking and defense the better feel they have for what they need to do. The result is you will have turned Zeke into a jack of all trades, master of none. He currently is a master as a ball carrier.