Infatuated with some plausible creativity that could emerge with this RB cmte and this OC/HC

[_sturt_]

It's the off-season of the off-season, of course, which means it's the time, if ever you're going to talk about nerdy things like offensive formation possibilities... mere possibilities... then this is that time.

So, for what it's worth... probably nothing... here's my vision of a new package that McCarthy could plausibly introduce this season, given the stable of RBs that we have, and their somewhat differentiated skill sets.

https://fortheblogy.com/inside-penn-states-playbook-diamond-formation/

Once you read, or at least scan that link... give some specific attention to the part that reads, "As it turns out, having a pocket full of “Aces” offered Yurcich play-calling options out of Diamond that were simply off the table at Oklahoma State. Within a limited 6-game trial run, it feels as if Yurcich only scratched the surface of what Diamond can do to opposing defenses when your entire Diamond backfield is filled with versatile athletes."

So, making application to our situation, I'm seeing a pocket full of aces.

Dare to imagine with me the idea of running this or very similar with a base of Rico as the head of the diamond, Zeke as the cowboy back to one side, and Luepke to the other side. All three are capable blockers. All three have been legitimate ball carriers.

Then, building on that, you've got some intriguing alternatives to that base.

Deuce can be the head of that diamond, and you can push Rico forward to a cowboy position, or not.

CeeDee can be the head of the diamond, or you can also position CeeDee at a cowboy position, either to flare out for a pass play, or to take an inside sweep handoff... or to act as a decoy for something completely different, perhaps a screen to the other side.

Trey Lance can be the head of the diamond, for any number of Taysom Hill-like possibilities.

Or, for 3rd and 1, your jumbo package can be Zeke as the head of the diamond, with Luepke paired with, say, TJ Bass as cowboy backs.

For those who mainly just want to see what I'm talking about, not necessarily read... here are a few clips...



Fun to think about, anyway. Again, just some stray thoughts for a lazy off-season Sunday afternoon.

 

[Rockport]

It's the off-season of the off-season, of course, which means it's the time, if ever you're going to talk about nerdy things like offensive formation possibilities... mere possibilities... then this is that time.

So, for what it's worth... probably nothing... here's my vision of a new package that McCarthy could plausibly introduce this season, given the stable of RBs that we have, and their somewhat differentiated skill sets.

https://fortheblogy.com/inside-penn-states-playbook-diamond-formation/

Once you read, or at least scan that link... give some specific attention to the part that reads, "As it turns out, having a pocket full of “Aces” offered Yurcich play-calling options out of Diamond that were simply off the table at Oklahoma State. Within a limited 6-game trial run, it feels as if Yurcich only scratched the surface of what Diamond can do to opposing defenses when your entire Diamond backfield is filled with versatile athletes."

So, making application to our situation, I'm seeing a pocket full of aces.

Dare to imagine with me the idea of running this or very similar with a base of Rico as the head of the diamond, Zeke as the cowboy back to one side, and Luepke to the other side. All three are capable blockers. All three have been legitimate ball carriers.

Then, building on that, you've got some intriguing alternatives to that base.

Deuce can be the head of that diamond, and you can push Rico forward to a cowboy position, or not.

CeeDee can be the head of the diamond, or you can also position CeeDee at a cowboy position, either to flare out for a pass play, or to take an inside sweep handoff... or to act as a decoy for something completely different, perhaps a screen to the other side.

Trey Lance can be the head of the diamond, for any number of Taysom Hill-like possibilities.

Or, for 3rd and 1, your jumbo package can be Zeke as the head of the diamond, with Luepke paired with, say, TJ Bass as cowboy backs.

Fun to think about, anyway. Again, just some stray thoughts for a lazy off-season Sunday afternoon.

I like the idea of getting Lance involved. At 6’4”, 226 he’s got the size and quickness. Might as well make use of him while he’s here.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

RB is probably the weakest position on the team. Why would you want to put that many backs out there in that case?

You want to get your best players on the field. If anything, we'd want to put more WRs or TEs out there instead.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The only thing that's going to emerge is 3 yard gut dives. Kyle Shanahan would struggle to assemble a good run game with this offense.

 

[_sturt_]

Knew there'd be some RB hate.... hehe... but yeah, if one subscribes to the idea of "scheming WRs open," then on rationally ought to be able to subscribe to the idea of scheming RBs to have more success than they would otherwise. Think of it this way, if nothing else. There remain a handful of college teams that feature this or something like this, and even if we agree that RB is a weakness (we don't), those teams don't need the very best RBs to be productive on offense because the scheme itself forces defenses to defend things they're not used to defending.

No, our current weakest position is either 1-tech or left tackle, where we have no proven starting-caliber NFL assets in place. That's just a fact.

 

[jazzcat22]

RB is probably the weakest position on the team. Why would you want to put that many backs out there in that case?

You want to get your best players on the field. If anything, we'd want to put more WRs or TEs out there instead.

The only thing that's going to emerge is 3 yard gut dives. Kyle Shanahan would struggle to assemble a good run game with this offense.

Actually we do not know how this offense will be yet. The RB’s may surprise is along with the emergence of the young new OL.

It is easy to say this team sucks than to imagine it can be good like it has been one of the top offenses in the NFL.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Actually we do not know how this offense will be yet. The RB’s may surprise is along with the emergence of the young new OL.

Zeke and Rico Dowdle are not surprising anyone.

 

[Risen Star]

This RB situation is no different than the slop they tried to get by with at WR before trading for Amari Cooper.

It will be completely blown up after the season.

 

[Coogiguy03]

We do this and you take play makers off the field. This reminds me of the formation we had when we had line man in the back field and they went out for passes

 

[Chasing6]

Zeke and Rico Dowdle are not surprising anyone.

Hunter will be a surprise. Though it may take our coaches to week 10 to figure it out.

 

[_sturt_]

Rico Dowdle

I get the Zeke skepticism.

I don't get the Rico skepticism.

I'm left to chalk it up to just a general skepticism of anyone who hasn't been a #1 starter in a bell-cow RB room.

Rico is good. He deserves this opportunity he's going to get.

 

[_sturt_]

We do this and you take play makers off the field. This reminds me of the formation we had when we had line man in the back field and they went out for passes

Don't go overboard. This is just one package to spring on defenses that they're not used to seeing. But it is a durable set that you can do a lot of things out of.

Also, don't discount the idea that you can motion out of it and motion into it, and again just by having it exist, you force a defense to have to think out there, not just play on instinct.

As for playmakers, even if we were to do this exclusively... and no one's saying we would, again... you still have two receiver slots, and as far as I'm aware we only have 3 guys that would qualify at this point in time as playmakers. And again again... you can line up CeeDee back there on occasion... and I didn't say this, but certainly you can line up Fergy back there just as easily on occasion.

If McCarthy calls me and asks my input, I'm telling him we're going to run this 2-3 series per game, but not 100% just this in any of those. This isn't the fastball that you use throughout the game. This isn't the slider that you use to keep them off your fastball even. This is more like that knuckleball that more than keeps them off your fastball or your slider.

 

[plasticman]

When the luster and anticipation of a new season meets up with regular season game #1, we are back to the reality of a simple statement. They are what they are.

This RB squad is absolutely pathetic. Dowdle would have to be the 2nd coming of Priest Holmes and there is an exponentially fractional probability of that.

 

[DandyDon52]

I get the Zeke skepticism.

I don't get the Rico skepticism.

I'm left to chalk it up to just a general skepticism of anyone who hasn't been a #1 starter in a bell-cow RB room.

Rico is good. He deserves this opportunity he's going to get.

Rico has always been fairly good, but he is #2 by decree of JJ. Elliot will get most of the carries.
The run offense will be designed for zeke, and probably the same ol stuff we have seen last 4 years lol.

Play calling is also a issue, it matters WheN they call a run,and mike will still be the guy calling them ,
so dont look for any new innovation lol.

 

[CWR]

I get the Zeke skepticism.

I don't get the Rico skepticism.

I'm left to chalk it up to just a general skepticism of anyone who hasn't been a #1 starter in a bell-cow RB room.

Rico is good. He deserves this opportunity he's going to get.

Rico has some pop to him and could be a good rb. However, he has always had trouble with injuries and if history is any indicator we won't be able to count on him.

I have more of a problem with how we approached the position this offseason, than the actual players we have. The process sucked and we shouldn't have put ourselves in this position.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I'm looking for this offense to be as close to the West Coast as we have seen. RB(s) impact could be a combination of touches and/or carries. Look for MM to use a boatload of various players, packages, and combinations. A recent stat ( thread above) showed we lined up with 3+ WRs 68.8% of the time last season. That's 4 or more WRs nearly 70% of our offense. I am sure it wasn't 4 positional WRs all the time but RBs and/or TEs in WR formations. But it still shows MM's tendency to spread the offense using all sorts of players and packages.

Don't forget, up until that trainwreck against the Packers, this offense was nearly unstoppable.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Don't go overboard. This is just one package to spring on defenses that they're not used to seeing. But it is a durable set that you can do a lot of things out of.

Also, don't discount the idea that you can motion out of it and motion into it, and again just by having it exist, you force a defense to have to think out there, not just play on instinct.

As for playmakers, even if we were to do this exclusively... and no one's saying we would, again... you still have two receiver slots, and as far as I'm aware we only have 3 guys that would qualify at this point in time as playmakers. And again again... you can line up CeeDee back there on occasion... and I didn't say this, but certainly you can line up Fergy back there just as easily on occasion.

If McCarthy calls me and asks my input, I'm telling him we're going to run this 2-3 series per game, but not 100% just this in any of those. This isn't the fastball that you use throughout the game. This isn't the slider that you use to keep them off your fastball even. This is more like that knuckleball that more than keeps them off your fastball or your slider.

It would be cool, but we'd use it only on teams we're REALLY trying to beat, not the teams we look over

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Zeke and Rico Dowdle are not surprising anyone.

Zeke has NEVER surprised anyone. But he is going to contribute....book it.

 

[thunderpimp91]

If teams like Indiana and Maryland were on the schedule I'd be all for it. I simply don't see it working out well against NFL defenses though. The Cowboys basically ran this a few years ago when they introduced the Hulk package, and that worked with decent amount of success. Replacing better blockers with skill players typically wont work at this level. You really don't see many 2RB packages these days, moving to 3 doesn't seem like a great idea IMO. I could see some value in this package if you wanted to run it maybe 1-2 times per game. As the year goes on you could start to play off of it if there is any sort of success, and possibly be able to catch a matchup issue in the receiving game as you motion a player out, but I think that is about it.

What I think might be more realistic for the Cowboys to do is use a similar formation, but with TEs on the field, or possibly Luepke if he is able to make the roster this season. The Cowboys have the bodies to do something like this but in the NFL this is more of a power formation, where as in college it could be ran as more of a combo of power & finesse plays. This is the type of formation in the NFL that you hit teams with power run,run,run,run,run....play action to sneak a TE out for a pass uncovered. This with a bunch of finesse and misdirection is likely only going to work once or twice before teams catch on, and honestly may get blown up several times unless your Oline is top tier.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

If teams like Indiana and Maryland were on the schedule I'd be all for it. I simply don't see it working out well against NFL defenses though. The Cowboys basically ran this a few years ago when they introduced the Hulk package, and that worked with decent amount of success. Replacing better blockers with skill players typically wont work at this level. You really don't see many 2RB packages these days, moving to 3 doesn't seem like a great idea IMO. I could see some value in this package if you wanted to run it maybe 1-2 times per game. As the year goes on you could start to play off of it if there is any sort of success, and possibly be able to catch a matchup issue in the receiving game as you motion a player out, but I think that is about it.

What I think might be more realistic for the Cowboys to do is use a similar formation, but with TEs on the field, or possibly Luepke if he is able to make the roster this season. The Cowboys have the bodies to do something like this but in the NFL this is more of a power formation, where as in college it could be ran as more of a combo of power & finesse plays. This is the type of formation in the NFL that you hit teams with power run,run,run,run,run....play action to sneak a TE out for a pass uncovered. This with a bunch of finesse and misdirection is likely only going to work once or twice before teams catch on, and honestly may get blown up several times unless your Oline is top tier.

Its my uneducated opinion that we are one of the worst teams in the league at presnap motion, as well as pre throw routes, i.e. pick routes?
I think jet sweep was/is one of the few we run.