Is it time to stop the running back by committee approach?

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,965
Reaction score
50,816
I don’t think it matters who is the RB. You could install the top five backs in the league and it might garner you an extra 1/10th of a yard average. This is what the run game looks like in McCathy’s pass to run west coast offense. It averaged around 3.8-4 ypc in GB, same as here and as long as it’s hovering around there they’re happy with it. If they were interested in establishing a dominant run game then they would had gone back to the outside zone which is a much better fit for most of our current personnel.
Everyone was banging on the tables wanting to go to a west coast offense for years. Welcome to the run game in McCarthy’s west coast!
It’s the scheme, in this scheme the emphasis in the running game is to run, to run out the clock after building a lead from the passing game!
It matters, and it matters a lot. It will garner you an extra 1 YPC or so, but what really matters is that it makes the run game effective and a threat which makes the passing game work better.

This idea that the RB doesn't matter has already been disproven in a big way, but people keep repeating it so much that for some odd reason they still believe it.
 

Coogiguy03

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,649
Reaction score
21,597
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
I don’t think it matters who is the RB. You could install the top five backs in the league and it might garner you an extra 1/10th of a yard average. This is what the run game looks like in McCathy’s pass to run west coast offense. It averaged around 3.8-4 ypc in GB, same as here and as long as it’s hovering around there they’re happy with it. If they were interested in establishing a dominant run game then they would had gone back to the outside zone which is a much better fit for most of our current personnel.
Everyone was banging on the tables wanting to go to a west coast offense for years. Welcome to the run game in McCarthy’s west coast!
It’s the scheme, in this scheme the emphasis in the running game is to run, to run out the clock after building a lead from the passing game!
I wouldn't even call this a west Coast offense, this is more of a Coast West offense, it has no identity what so ever!!!!
 

kskboys

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,965
Reaction score
50,816
Corey Dillon in 2004 was the only 1000+ yard rusher for New England under BB and Brady when they won the Bowl. RBBC works really well if you have lots of things... well you know that Dallas doesn't have......
No it doesn't. NE used a pounder and a pass catcher. Tandem back system, and the pass catcher was more of a slot type. Plus, NE used the short pass as a running game. Silly to use the best QB in the league as an example. The Chiefs are not the same when Pacheco doesn't play. SF isn't the same when McC is out.
 

thunderpimp91

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,925
Reaction score
19,100
No it doesn't. NE used a pounder and a pass catcher. Tandem back system, and the pass catcher was more of a slot type. Plus, NE used the short pass as a running game. Silly to use the best QB in the league as an example. The Chiefs are not the same when Pacheco doesn't play. SF isn't the same when McC is out.
Yeah RBBC really needs to be defined when it gets used as its taken on a wide variety of meanings. To many people, I think any situation where more than 1 RB is getting consistent work is viewed as RBBC, but the problem is thats almost every team in the league now so the terms do really need to be updated to separate tandem and RBBC.
 

Coogiguy03

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,649
Reaction score
21,597
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Could they be worried about risking injury to Rico as he's been known to have injury issues?
 

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,389
Reaction score
22,782
No argument there, the only bad decision to me is electing to make the same mistakes over and over.
As long as we're not going to try and play smash mouth football I agree Dowdle is the best option. The only way to get the best out of Zeke is to pound the rock and no way in hell McCarthy is calling the game that way. Hell they were up what 24 points on Cleveland and didn't try to pound the rock so I don't expect that to be the strategy anytime soon. I do have to wonder though how much of it is Dak changing the plays because of the defensive looks. Teams used to do that to Romo too.. show a look that they knew would get us to audible away from any run then drop the whole defense into the passing lanes. Dak needs to get better at that chess match with DCs.
 

exciter

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
3,775
It matters, and it matters a lot. It will garner you an extra 1 YPC or so, but what really matters is that it makes the run game effective and a threat which makes the passing game work better.

This idea that the RB doesn't matter has already been disproven in a big way, but people keep repeating it so much that for some odd reason they still believe it.
Again, McCarthy’s backs hovered around 4ypc throughout his tenure in GB.
Pollard went from 5.2 the previous season to 4ypc last season.
Currently they’re running between 3.8-4ypc.
It’s the scheme.
This is what the running game looks like in McCarthy’s offense. He doesn’t run, until he’s got a lead!
 

John813

Well-Known Member
Messages
23,545
Reaction score
36,392
RBBC is only used on a team that has a lack of talent there.

MIA used a tandem RB system, not RBBC. Wilson had 41 total carries last season. Brooks was depth.

Brooks also went on IR.

This year they have Mostert, Achane and Wright. With Wright being a new draftee, I assume the goal was to use all three but Mostert has been out with an injury. So, it's been mainly just Wright/Achane. I expect it to go back to 3 once Mostert is back.
 

Bobhaze

Staff member
Messages
18,377
Reaction score
72,338
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Running back by committee isn't an issue, most teams use multiple backs. The issue is that the backs we have really aren't that good. How many of these guys even make most other rosters coming out of camp?
This ^^^^^. Using a committee of a couple of talented running backs is a good strategy. Using a committee of 2 to however many untalented RBs is a poor strategy.

Apparently we are led by a FO that doesn’t understand that fundamental caveat of the talent requirement.
 

exciter

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
3,775
I wouldn't even call this a west Coast offense, this is more of a Coast West offense, it has no identity what so ever!!!!
Same exact short passing game emphasis west coast he ran in New Orleans, San Fran and Green Bay!
 

thunderpimp91

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,925
Reaction score
19,100
As long as we're not going to try and play smash mouth football I agree Dowdle is the best option. The only way to get the best out of Zeke is to pound the rock and no way in hell McCarthy is calling the game that way. Hell they were up what 24 points on Cleveland and didn't try to pound the rock so I don't expect that to be the strategy anytime soon. I do have to wonder though how much of it is Dak changing the plays because of the defensive looks. Teams used to do that to Romo too.. show a look that they knew would get us to audible away from any run then drop the whole defense into the passing lanes. Dak needs to get better at that chess match with DCs.
Yeah I wish I could really diagnose the issues with the run game. Coming into the year I had concerns about the run game but thought at very least this team could use Zeke early and often to get in some of those body shots to wear down the defense and open up the rest of the playbook. Now granted they are yet to really stick with the run game in any situation as you said they may have the worst numbers in the league running between the Tackles. I'd have to pull the chart back up but I believe the only gap they are averaging more than 4ypc is the B gap off of Zach Martin and that is because of one rush attempt. Even if Zeke has lost a step or two he should still be able to get those consistent 3-4 yard power runs up the gut if the OL is giving him any room at all.

We really need a better well rounded back, the OL doesn't seem to be that great, McCarthy doesn't have a great history with running the ball, and you could be onto something there with Dak checking out of some of these runs too. It really is hard to say X is the problem, lets fix it. With all the presnap motion talk this year I actually think its the run game that would benefit from it. I'd love to see the Cowboys use some late motion to set up wham blocks for Zeke, use the jet motion to move the slot defender away from the play side to help open a gap off tackle, etc.
 

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,389
Reaction score
22,782
Corey Dillon in 2004 was the only 1000+ yard rusher for New England under BB and Brady when they won the Bowl. RBBC works really well if you have lots of things... well you know that Dallas doesn't have......
Because I knew better and I hate blatant falsehoods I went and looked this up. The following is the list of backs who ran for 1000+ yards during the Brady/Belichick Super Bowl runs.

Antowain Smith
Corey Dillon
Benjarvis Green-Ellis
Stevan Ridley
Legarette Blount

The narrative that Brady had no running game and no receivers and basically won all those games by himself is even more brain dead than the whole "Dak loses playoff games" narrative.
 

thunderpimp91

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,925
Reaction score
19,100
This ^^^^^. Using a committee of a couple of talented running backs is a good strategy. Using a committee of 2 to however many untalented RBs is a poor strategy.

Apparently we are led by a FO that doesn’t understand that fundamental caveat of the talent requirement.
My big fear is this is coming from the Cowboys new and improved analytics department, and the strategy wont be changing anytime soon. Devaluing the RB position is one thing, just throwing bodies at it and passing on free agents over minimal amounts of money is a red flag in my mind.
 

Coogiguy03

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,649
Reaction score
21,597
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
My big fear is this is coming from the Cowboys new and improved analytics department, and the strategy wont be changing anytime soon. Devaluing the RB position is one thing, just throwing bodies at it and passing on free agents over minimal amounts of money is a red flag in my mind.
hey the less we run the more we get out of our investment 60 million! 60 million to hand the ball off a lot nope
 

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,389
Reaction score
22,782
Yeah I wish I could really diagnose the issues with the run game. Coming into the year I had concerns about the run game but thought at very least this team could use Zeke early and often to get in some of those body shots to wear down the defense and open up the rest of the playbook. Now granted they are yet to really stick with the run game in any situation as you said they may have the worst numbers in the league running between the Tackles. I'd have to pull the chart back up but I believe the only gap they are averaging more than 4ypc is the B gap off of Zach Martin and that is because of one rush attempt. Even if Zeke has lost a step or two he should still be able to get those consistent 3-4 yard power runs up the gut if the OL is giving him any room at all.

We really need a better well rounded back, the OL doesn't seem to be that great, McCarthy doesn't have a great history with running the ball, and you could be onto something there with Dak checking out of some of these runs too. It really is hard to say X is the problem, lets fix it. With all the presnap motion talk this year I actually think its the run game that would benefit from it. I'd love to see the Cowboys use some late motion to set up wham blocks for Zeke, use the jet motion to move the slot defender away from the play side to help open a gap off tackle, etc.
I think this is the main issue. McCarthy has only slightly more patience with the run than Kellen Moore does. I never believed him when he stated " we are going to run the ball.." because he's never shown that to be his desire at any point in his career. There has been times when he's had to because he was protecting a backup QB but whenever he's had his starter he's aired it out as much as anyone in the league. Oddly enough I do think it's going to get better as the line comes together. I think people greatly underplayed the whole "two rookie starters" thing. The line looks completely discombobulated on most plays and just are not opening up much in the way of holes. To say nothing of the amount of times we've got unblocked defenders in our backfield. Teams have drawn a bead on our run formations and calls so they are run blitzing the hell out of us. I did see signs of life against the Giants though because both Zeke and Dowdle had a couple of nice holes early. But McCarthy's strange rotation seemed to rob them of any chance at establishing a rhythm and getting in sync with the blocking. As I have said many times, if the hole opens a half tick before or after the back looks at the point of attack then it may as well have not opened at all because any decent back is going to go somewhere else if the hole isn't where it was supposed to be when he looks at the point of attack. IMHO that may be the biggest problem we're seeing.. The line and the backs are out of sync.. and the only thing that can fix that is time on task to steal a Garrett-ism.
 

RonnieT24

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,389
Reaction score
22,782
hey the less we run the more we get out of our investment 60 million! 60 million to hand the ball off a lot nope
60 million to win games however the hell you have to should be the mantra. Hand it off, throw it, run it, punt it, whatever it takes.
 
Top