Is Jason Garret, Mike Martz Jr.?

[Hostile]

Garrett has one year, sure, I don't see how that affects our being able to discuss him in comparison amongst his peers. Like I said, it was a general discussion, I'm not saying he's going to somehow miraculously become the same person Martz is. It's a discussion on their similarities and differences, nothing more.

Everyone is taking it as an insult. No one has yet to bring up how brilliant Martz was in putting together some of the offenses he has orchestrated, that the comparison could be flattering to Jason.

All anyone remembers are the guys failures. You yourself were quick to bring up the disproportionate pass/run ratio the rams had last year, I'd say that's taking it as an insult.

I meant the Lions, it was a typo. I also didn't say you were insulted, I said people are taking the comparison as being an insult on Garrett.

See your quote above, post #31. Also note that the first mention of "insult" was in a post to me. Can you see where I might get the idea that you think I was insulted?

It's fine if you don't see the correlation. You're still bringing up 60/40 like that is the only comparison to be made, pass to run ratio. Would it be better if I compared Garrett to Andy Reid?

I think it would be better if you compared him to Don Coryell, Norv Turner, Ernis Zampese, or even the Marino era Don Shula. The reason I say that is because Garrett does not run a WCO like Reid and does not seem to run a lot of trips WR sets like Martz. He still uses a FB, and he relies more heavily on the TE. In that regard he even reminds me more of Bill Parcells' Bledsoe era Patriots.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the correlation. It isn't entirely about mix of plays. It's about sets. Garret's influences are some of the names I mentioned above. He has no correlation or influence that I know of to Shula but I see a stronger resemblence to that style of offense than I do to Martz.

I won't disagree with you that his Offense inflates QB stats and that it takes unknown pieces and turns them into household names at that position. However, Romo had already established himself the year before when Garrett was not here and Tony Sparano was calling the plays. To me the difference lies in how the plays are designed. Both like to go deep to their wideouts, but Martz virtually ignores TE, throws a lot to the RBs, and rarely plays a FB. Garrett is the exact opposite in that regard.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I think we'll see more balance this yr due to Houck coaching the OL (which means they will probably be more succesful running on early downs, something we have struggled with the last couple of years under Sparano)...if you are constantly in 2nd and 11 or 2nd and 9, of course you are going to pass more...also, the draft will dictate a little of what happens as well. Should they some how end up with McFadden, you can bet with him and MBIII we'll probably turn into one of the more run oriented teams in the league...play action passing would probably be far more succesful with us...not to mention the time of possession edge we'd likely have every week, which means our defense stays on the field less...

David

You think and I hope!!!... to see more balance.

Last year it was a combination of the O-line, Martziism and not having a good starting RB in Julius.... but if I had to take his side for anything... he didnt get enough carries to get a chance to get going... but when you are running up the butt's of your teammates... I dont blame coaches for pulling the plug on the running game.

 

[TheCount]

See your quote above, post #31. Also note that the first mention of "insult" was in a post to me. Can you see where I might get the idea that you think I was insulted?

Of course I can see where you might get the idea, that's why I set the record straight. I said "Everyone is taking it as an insult.", I should have clarified what "it" meant, I suppose.

I think it would be better if you compared him to Don Coryell, Norv Turner, Ernis Zampese, or even the Marino era Don Shula. The reason I say that is because Garrett does not run a WCO like Reid and does not seem to run a lot of trips WR sets like Martz. He still uses a FB, and he relies more heavily on the TE. In that regard he even reminds me more of Bill Parcells' Bledsoe era Patriots.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the correlation. It isn't entirely about mix of plays. It's about sets. Garret's influences are some of the names I mentioned above. He has no correlation or influence that I know of to Shula but I see a stronger resemblence to that style of offense than I do to Martz.

I won't disagree with you that his Offense inflates QB stats and that it takes unknown pieces and turns them into household names at that position. However, Romo had already established himself the year before when Garrett was not here and Tony Sparano was calling the plays. To me the difference lies in how the plays are designed. Both like to go deep to their wideouts, but Martz virtually ignores TE, throws a lot to the RBs, and rarely plays a FB. Garrett is the exact opposite in that regard.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the comparison was meant as a means to a conversation of how Garrett compares, not to say he IS Martz. Well put.

The throwing to the RB thing is something I expected to see a lot more of last year, especially to JJ since we kept hearing that was one of his strengths. I also expected more screens and draws than I saw.

JJ, however, is no Faulk and I doubt Martz ever had a TE (or the will to find one) of Witten's caliber.

 

[DallasEast]

I meant the Lions, it was a typo. I also didn't say you were insulted, I said people are taking the comparison as being an insult on Garrett.

It's fine if you don't see the correlation. You're still bringing up 60/40 like that is the only comparison to be made, pass to run ratio. Would it be better if I compared Garrett to Andy Reid?

Andy Reid -

1999: 474 passing attempts vs 424 rushing attempts. 53% to 47%.
2000: 575 passing attempts vs 397 rushing attempts. 59% to 41%.
2001: 517 passing attempts vs 455 rushing attempts. 53% to 47%.
2002: 548 passing attempts vs 489 rushing attempts. 53% to 47%.
2003: 484 passing attempts vs 417 rushing attempts. 54% to 46%.
2004: 547 passing attempts vs 376 rushing attempts. 59% to 41%.
2005: 620 passing attempts vs 365 rushing attempts. 63% to 37%.
2006: 544 passing attempts vs 416 rushing attempts. 57% to 43%.
2007: 577 passing attempts vs 421 rushing attempts. 59% to 41%.

 

[Hostile]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, the comparison was meant as a means to a conversation of how Garrett compares, not to say he IS Martz. Well put.

The throwing to the RB thing is something I expected to see a lot more of last year, especially to JJ since we kept hearing that was one of his strengths. I also expected more screens and draws than I saw.

JJ, however, is no fault and I doubt Martz ever had TE (or the will to find one) of Witten's caliber.

I can't even begin to tell you how much I want Garrett to utilize the RBs in his passing game. You must understand that I come from the Landry era where Preston Pearson was almost an automatic first down and Ron Springs was dangerous to defenses every game because we ran such beautiful screens.

If Martz uses Vernon Davis in San Fran-psycho maybe that will be a reason why he hasn't utilized them more to this point. He still rarely uses 2 back sets and a lot more 3 WR sets, especially trips to one side in a 4 WR set.

I like Martz, don't get me wrong. I just think he's become predictable. I don't think Garrett will be. We're one WR opposite TO away from being freaking scary on Offense and I believe we will get that missing piece of the puzzle. Martz has always had amazing WR pairs to work with. Garrett had 1,TO.

I'd like to see Garrett's Offense with one of Martz's former WRs, Roy Williams and then hear Roy's observations.

 

[Boysboy]

Andy Reid -

1999: 474 passing attempts vs 424 rushing attempts. 53% to 47%.
2000: 575 passing attempts vs 397 rushing attempts. 59% to 41%.
2001: 517 passing attempts vs 455 rushing attempts. 53% to 47%.
2002: 548 passing attempts vs 489 rushing attempts. 53% to 47%.
2003: 484 passing attempts vs 417 rushing attempts. 54% to 46%.
2004: 547 passing attempts vs 376 rushing attempts. 59% to 41%.
2005: 620 passing attempts vs 365 rushing attempts. 63% to 37%.
2006: 544 passing attempts vs 416 rushing attempts. 57% to 43%.
2007: 577 passing attempts vs 421 rushing attempts. 59% to 41%.

The Philly media/fans are not only really weird, but very laughable at the same time-in '06 when Reid committed to the run game late in the year with Garcia under center, everyone thought he finally learned his lesson and would continue to do so when McNabb came back.

However-he all but completely abandoned it last year, and despite getting alot of flack for it, all of the attention has turned to "McNabb needs a stud receiver in the passing game", with the run game being nothing more than an afterthought.

 

[joseephuss]

Right on the friggin' :money:

In 2007 we passed 531 times, and ran 419 times. 56% passing, 44% rushing.

Detroit (which was nowhere near as effective throwing) threw the ball 587 times, and ran 324 times. 62% passing, 38% rushing.

I honestly do not see the correlation.

That ranked Dallas 18th in pass attempts and 21st in rushing attempts.

Detroit ranked 4th in pass attempts and 32nd in rushing attempts.

Mike Martz would get away from the running game when he had future Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk in the back field.

Jason Garrett so far does not have the luxury of a running back of that quality.

Garrett is not Martz, Jr.

 

[Hostile]

That ranked Dallas 18th in pass attempts and 21st in rushing attempts.

Detroit ranked 4th in pass attempts and 32nd in rushing attempts.

Mike Martz would get away from the running game when he had future Hall of Famer Marshall Faulk in the back field.

Jason Garrett so far does not have the luxury of a running back of that quality.

Garrett is not Martz, Jr.

Great follow up to the point I was trying to make.