Is Marinelli bringing back the 3-4 defense?

[GoBigD]

I noticed Dallas lined up in a 3-4 defense early in the first quarter. Spencer, Carter, T.McClain, Wilber, T.Crawford, and Mincey all have experience in that scheme. Maybe Marinelli is working into the game plan?

you can do that with a good lb corps

 

[Crown Royal]

WEll...that looks not like I posted it. Sigh.

EDIT: FIxed post, a little elbow grease

 

[Crown Royal]

Man you got me curious on the Tampa concept, so I went and took a look. When I think pure Tampa 2, I think three teams - Tampa with Kiffin (96-2008), Chicago with Lovie (04-12) and Indy with Dungy (2002-2008). Here is how those teams ranked in YPG during those years.

What's interesting is the Indy/Chicago superbowl. Chicago was the better defense by yards, but lost.

That said, your point is solid. If anything, Kiffin was great about yards. Marinelli...eh.



Bold is superbowl appearance:

So yeah, cliffs: Kiffin actually did a good job of keeping yardage down, even toward the end of his tenure.

 

[LatinMind]

I noticed Dallas lined up in a 3-4 defense early in the first quarter. Spencer, Carter, T.McClain, Wilber, T.Crawford, and Mincey all have experience in that scheme. Maybe Marinelli is working into the game plan?

Spencer has been rushing from the stand up alot. And wilber is playing the Sam. As you can clearly see him over the te. That's not a 3-4 set.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's more about allowing Spencer to operate more in his comfort zone of a 2 point stance than it is reverting back to the 3-4. As long as he keeps using bend and not standing up like he started off out the gate I am fine with it. You see that look out of Spencer on the field exclusively but it's been in since he came back.

 

[BlindFaith]

So yeah, cliffs: Kiffin actually did a good job of keeping yardage down, even toward the end of his tenure.

Great work!

 

[BlindFaith]

Actually its a scrappy play by Mincey to hold the OT so the LB can stay clean and make a tackle

So we just chalk it up to everyone did a good job? 5 yard rush. Why not run that play every down? Mincey didnt do anything but try and make himself a speed bump. And Hitchens was late to fill. Thats how the defense should have handled it. That and Wilbur could have forced contain more. But that really didnt look like his first responsibility. They targeted Mincey and won.

 

[itsaboat]

Spencer has been rushing from the stand up alot. And wilber is playing the Sam. As you can clearly see him over the te. That's not a 3-4 set.

Sunday

2012

 

[BlindFaith]

So yeah, cliffs: Kiffin actually did a good job of keeping yardage down, even toward the end of his tenure.

Any scheme can work if you have good players. And of course you mix in looks and take away an opponents strengths. I dont think those Indy teams had stellar talent.

 

[jobberone]

You could call that defensive front more than one thing. And while very similar the two above gifs do not show the same lineup. It's a good disguise because you don't know who is dropping in a pass nor can you predict the Mike reliably. I like it although I'm not crazy about the zero technique esp the top one.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You could call that defensive front more than one thing. And while very similar the two above gifs do not show the same lineup. It's a good disguise because you don't know who is dropping in a pass nor can you predict the Mike reliably. I like it although I'm not crazy about the zero technique esp the top one.

I'm pretty sure that is Brent on the nose in the 2012 pic. Looks more like a 96 than a 97. It speaks well of Marinelli's willingness to work outside of his comfort zone. I cannot help but think that Eberflus plays a part in it.

 

[BAT]

Sunday

2012

Like many have stated, the 4-3 over and the 3-4 (especially the Phillips 3-4) are very very similar in terms of front and gap responsibility. Still believe it was a Wide 9, but whatever it was I am glad that Marinelli is being creative.

 

[theogt]

Like many have stated, the 4-3 over and the 3-4 (especially the Phillips 3-4) are very very similar in terms of front and gap responsibility. Still believe it was a Wide 9, but whatever it was I am glad that Marinelli is being creative.

That's not a 4-3 under front, and it's definitely not a wide 9.

 

[xwalker]

Sunday

2012

Amazingly similar. The primary difference is that the Mincey and J. Crawford are 1 spot or 1/2 gap over from the 2012 counterparts.

If you want to say the the 2012 RDE is at the 5-tech, then Mincey is more at the 4 spot.

If you want to say the the 2012 LDE is at the 4, then Crawford is at the 3.

It would have been harder to double Mincey with the Tackle/Guard is he was outside by the extra 1/2 gap.

 

[jobberone]

I'm pretty sure that is Brent on the nose in the 2012 pic. Looks more like a 96 than a 97. It speaks well of Marinelli's willingness to work outside of his comfort zone. I cannot help but think that Eberflus plays a part in it.

I wasn't talking about who the player was but how they all lined up. Without looking again one was a true 0 and the other a bit shaded. This may mean one gap on the shaded side or it might mean he wants to drive the guy a bit away from that side. Or it might mean someone knows something about the O lineup or just the centers tendencies.

I've never ever bought in to the notion Kiffin/Marinelli are in love with a T2 since they've been here. I've been saying this for years and finally I'm seeing more and more notice most NFL defenses run all kinds of looks presnap and live.

 

[rcaldw]

My favorite part of this is Spencer, taking off to the top backside when he saw that Bortles didn't keep the ball. To see that kind of hustle is great.

 

[xwalker]

My favorite part of this is Spencer, taking off to the top backside when he saw that Bortles didn't keep the ball. To see that kind of hustle is great.

Yes, hustle is a huge part of the Marinelli defensive concept that can't really be seen if X and O discussions like 4-3 vs 3-4 and that type of thing.

For example, a guy like Hayden is not very talented, but he does get out in space and in on the tackle often for a DT. I think that's why Marinelli likes him despite his significant lack of talent. I'm curious how that will work with Josh Brent.

 

[itsaboat]

I'm pretty sure that is Brent on the nose in the 2012 pic. Looks more like a 96 than a 97. It speaks well of Marinelli's willingness to work outside of his comfort zone. I cannot help but think that Eberflus plays a part in it.

It's Brent at the nose with Lissemore at RDE and Coleman at LDE on that play. Whoever is responsible, I think it will be beneficial for Dallas especially with Brent and T.Crawford coming back.

Amazingly similar. The primary difference is that the Mincey and J. Crawford are 1 spot or 1/2 gap over from the 2012 counterparts.

If you want to say the the 2012 RDE is at the 5-tech, then Mincey is more at the 4 spot.
Lissemore

If you want to say the the 2012 LDE is at the 4, then Crawford is at the 3.
Coleman

It would have been harder to double Mincey with the Tackle/Guard is he was outside by the extra 1/2 gap.

I agree. If Mincey was on the outside shoulder of the LT it would have been harder for JAX to double him on that play. The DE placement is slightly different but the look is very similar which is what some people seem to ignore.

My favorite part of this is Spencer, taking off to the top backside when he saw that Bortles didn't keep the ball. To see that kind of hustle is great.

The 3-4 look allows Spencer to read the play easier plus he's already in a good position to contain a QB run

Yes, hustle is a huge part of the Marinelli defensive concept that can't really be seen if X and O discussions like 4-3 vs 3-4 and that type of thing.

For example, a guy like Hayden is not very talented, but he does get out in space and in on the tackle often for a DT. I think that's why Marinelli likes him despite his significant lack of talent. I'm curious how that will work with Josh Brent.

That's what I've noticed this season. Hayden has made a lot of hustle plays tackling guys from behind and dropping into zone coverage. T.McClain was better against the run versus Jacksonville by a good margin but I don't think he has the agility/speed to do the things Marinelli has Hayden do.

 

[xwalker]

I noticed Dallas lined up in a 3-4 defense early in the first quarter. Spencer, Carter, T.McClain, Wilber, T.Crawford, and Mincey all have experience in that scheme. Maybe Marinelli is working into the game plan?

I was curious to know the situation to see if they might have been expecting run or pass. It would be interesting to know what prompted them to use this formation at this point in time.

It was 2nd and 10 with 8:55 remaining in the 1st quarter.

In general, it's probably about equally likely to be run or pass in this situation. I don't remember, but I would guess that Denard Robinson has a tendency to be an outside runner. A 3-4 team would generally go to a 4-man line in obvious passing situations.

This would be better with Josh Brent if he was back to his 2012 form. Back then he was really good at bull-rushing single blocking. With Mincey being a 1/2 gap inside and with a tweener 3-tech/1-tech in T. McClain at the Nose, it doesn't seem like a good run defense formation. I'm guess that they were either expecting a pass or an outside run.

 

[xwalker]

It's Brent at the nose with Lissemore at RDE and Coleman at LDE on that play. Whoever is responsible, I think it will be beneficial for Dallas especially with Brent and T.Crawford coming back.

I agree. If Mincey was on the outside shoulder of the LT it would have been harder for JAX to double him on that play. The DE placement is slightly different but the look is very similar which is what some people seem to ignore.

The 3-4 look allows Spencer to read the play easier plus he's already in a good position to contain a QB run

That's what I've noticed this season. Hayden has made a lot of hustle plays tackling guys from behind and dropping into zone coverage. T.McClain was better against the run versus Jacksonville by a good margin but I don't think he has the agility/speed to do the things Marinelli has Hayden do.

Good work with the Gifs and images. It really makes for a good discussion. I really like discussions where we try to understand things collectively instead of just arguing about issues.

In regards to 3-4, 4-3, under, over, wide-9, etc., it doesn't really matter how it's defined. I'm more interested to know why they used this formation. Did they see an advantage to it or did they just want to give them a different look to mix things up?

Having Spencer standing up and having Wilber on the line would seem to be advantageous for an outside run by the RB or QB.

In regards to Hayden, I've searched for reasons why Marinelli seems to like him. My conclusion is that he gets in on plays from hustling to the outside or down-field. It's surprising to see some of the plays that he gets in on based almost purely on hustle and awareness. He really doesn't have much talent when considering the traditional things that you look for in a DT. He's not overly strong taking on double-teams and he's not really much of a pass-rusher. If Brent gets into just OK football condition, I think he'll easily draw more double-teams than Hayden; however, I question his ability to get outside or down-field the way that Hayden does unless he (Brent) really gets his weight down. Before Garrett said he was around 335, I was already thinking that Marinelli might want him to be a little lighter than he was in 2012 at about 320.