Is this years team right back to 2014 status?

[Galian Beast]

2014 DEs not here any longer were Mincy & Selvie.

We have upgraded the middle with Thornton and a health Crawford. I do not believe that the defense will be worse in 2016, in fact I think it will be an improvement from the 19th ranked defence in 2014.

He doesn't want to admit that what we have now is better than Selvie and Mincey.

 

[CowboyRoy]

2014 DEs not here any longer were Mincy & Selvie.

We have upgraded the middle with Thornton and a health Crawford. I do not believe that the defense will be worse in 2016, in fact I think it will be an improvement from the 19th ranked defence in 2014.

I will give you Thorton is an upgrade for sure. Now if Lawrence can play, he is an upgrade over Selvie, but missing 4 games is huge. Mincy to Gregory is a downgrade in my opinion because of the experience. Mincy was solid. And one more joint and Gregory is toast. Depth is certainly a big problem for this 2016 squad.

 

[CowboyRoy]

He doesn't want to admit that what we have now is better than Selvie and Mincey.

I will take Lawrence over Selvie and Mincy over Gregory. But the fact that both are out the first 4 games tips the scales. And then we have the issue of backups.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Are you really arguing that Seattle won a title with a dynamic passing game? That team won with Lynch and defense.

Dallas has an infinitely better passing game than Seattle with Romo right now. And yes, Elliott just made it even better because he's an excellent pass protector and receiver.

Read his words.

You pass more effectively than your opponent..
The Seahawks did that by making your passing efficiency horrendous.

This is a quite rudimentary concept.

 

[Eddie]

So ... 2014 is the pinnacle which we are trying to emulate?

 

[Denim Chicken]

I will give you Thorton is an upgrade for sure. Now if Lawrence can play, he is an upgrade over Selvie, but missing 4 games is huge. Mincy to Gregory is a downgrade in my opinion because of the experience. Mincy was solid. And one more joint and Gregory is toast. Depth is certainly a big problem for this 2016 squad.

As far as I know Mincy is still a FA. We could have him back if we thought he was an upgrade.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Are you really arguing that Seattle won a title with a dynamic passing game? That team won with Lynch and defense.

Dallas has an infinitely better passing game than Seattle with Romo right now. And yes, Elliott just made it even better because he's an excellent pass protector and receiver.

Seattle has had one of the most efficient passing games in the league for several years now. Last year they led the league, by a lot, in passer rating (not a perfect measure, but certainly indicative). In the year they won the SB, they were 5th. In 2014, the Cowboys led the league, and Seattle was 8th. And their defense is consistently extremely effective against the pass. "Passing more effectively than the other team" is exactly what they do, and how they win.

 

[CowboyRoy]

As far as I know Mincy is still a FA. We could have him back if we thought he was an upgrade.

Obviously you dont see our starters being suspended for 4 games as a problem? Are you taking that into account or glossing over that one?

 

[JD_KaPow]

Read his words.

You pass more effectively than your opponent..
The Seahawks did that by making your passing efficiency horrendous.

This is a quite rudimentary concept.

This is true, but they ALSO did it by passing really effectively themselves. Not passing a ton, but passing really well when they do throw the ball.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Obviously you dont see our starters being suspended for 4 games as a problem? Are you taking that into account or glossing over that one?

No, its obviously and issue and not ideal, but it happened do we have to deal.

I think we'll be OK. We don't have a superstar at DE, but we have a rotation and a stronger middle that will assist the outside. Our secondary will be better than last year with OScan back and Jones on year two. Once Dlaw and Gregory come back the rotation improves.

The DE depth chart looks like
DeMarcus Lawrence(SUS), 3rd
Randy Gregory(SUS), 2nd
Benson Mayowa, 4th
David Irving,2nd
Charls Tapper, Rookie
Ryan Russell, 2nd
Michael McAdoo, 6th
Caleb Azubike, UDFA

 

[waldoputty]

I am of the rare opinion that Zeke makes us a superbowl contender, as long as Romo is healthy.
Not sure if good enough to beat Carolina.

QB - health concern but looked really good before injury in 2015
TB - Zeke has been burst and fumbles less. Defenses have to pick their poison once again. Backups are better and proven.
TE - Witten about the same.
WR - Same if Dez fully recovers. Have hope for Butler.
OL - Better than 2014 with Collins. Depth is slight concern at T
Overall - More explosive and dominant if Romo stays healthy!

DE - Better than 2014 even with no Hardy. Mayowa = Mincey? Much better if Randy plays to ability. Would be playing with handicap first 4 games though but easier schedule.
DT - Much better with Thornton a big improvement over golden cock and drafted Collins.
LB - Better
S - Better with Jones
CB - About the same or slightly worse.
Overall - Better players with potential for much better if Randy or some other DE steps up.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No, its obviously and issue and not ideal, but it happened do we have to deal.

I think we'll be OK. We don't have a superstar at DE, but we have a rotation and a stronger middle that will assist the outside. Our secondary will be better than last year with OScan back and Jones on year two. Once Dlaw and Gregory come back the rotation improves.

The DE depth chart looks like
DeMarcus Lawrence(SUS), 3rd
Randy Gregory(SUS), 2nd
Benson Mayowa, 4th
David Irving,2nd
Charls Tapper, Rookie
Ryan Russell, 2nd
Michael McAdoo, 6th
Caleb Azubike, UDFA

OK? Yah, that doesnt give me any level of confidence. Everyone knew that pass rush and DE was our most pressing need and we havent done anything about it. Therefore, its still pressing. And both Lawrence and gregory are one more failed drug test away from a year long suspension. Once that happens their careers are all but over. I dont see Gregory lasting. I have more hope in Lawrence.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I am of the rare opinion that Zeke makes us a superbowl contender, as long as Romo is healthy.
Not sure if good enough to beat Carolina.

QB - health concern but looked really good before injury in 2015
TB - Zeke has been burst and fumbles less. Defenses have to pick their poison once again. Backups are better and proven.
TE - Witten about the same.
WR - Same if Dez fully recovers. Have hope for Butler.
OL - Better than 2014 with Collins. Depth is slight concern at T
Overall - More explosive and dominant if Romo stays healthy!

DE - Better than 2014 even with no Hardy. Mayowa = Mincey? Much better if Randy plays to ability. Would be playing with handicap first 4 games though but easier schedule.
DT - Much better with Thornton a big improvement over golden cock and drafted Collins.
LB - Better
S - Better with Jones
CB - About the same or slightly worse.
Overall - Better players with potential for much better if Randy or some other DE steps up.

Im really trying not to peg you as a homer. Offense I agree if we stay healthy. Defense is not better in my opinion. Its worse.

 

[waldoputty]

Im really trying not to peg you as a homer. Offense I agree if we stay healthy. Defense is not better in my opinion. Its worse.

LOL, which defense position would you say we are worse?
Even at DE, I still say we are equal or slight better than 2014.
I guess we may be slightly worse at CB if Scandrick does not come back the same way.

We made big upgrades in 2015 and kept those upgrades other than Hardy...

 

[waldoputty]

I put the 2014 and 2016 DL side-by-side for comparison.
DT is much better with Thornton instead of Golden Cock. Irving is good addition if he is not moved to DE. This is not counting our 3rd rounder Collins stepping up.
DE is slightly better even if Gregory is out for year. Demarcus Lawrence was out most of 2014. If Gregory shapes up and play to ability, could be significantly better. I suspect Mincey = Mayowa. Jack Crawford was not bad last year.

2014

• DT - Tyrone Crawford, Nick Hayden, Terrell McClain, Henry Melton, Ben Bass, Ken Bishop, Davon Coleman
• DE - DeMarcus Lawrence (mostly out), Jeremy Mincey, George Selvie, Caesar Rayford, Kenneth Boatright

2016

• DT - Tyrone Crawford, Cedric Thornton, Terrell McClain, Malliek Collins, David Irving
• DE - DeMarcus Lawrence (out 1st 4 games), Randy Gregory (out 1st 4 games), Benson Mayowa, Jack Crawford, Charles Tapper, Ryan Russell

 

[CowboyRoy]

LOL, which defense position would you say we are worse?
Even at DE, I still say we are equal or slight better than 2014.
I guess we may be slightly worse at CB if Scandrick does not come back the same way.

We made big upgrades in 2015 and kept those upgrades other than Hardy...

Ok, lets start with baby steps here:

-do you agree that during the first 4 games we are worse off on the Dline?
-do you agree that both defenses are NOT GOOD?

 

[NEODOG]

Our defense sucks!

Yup..... Within our division is a slew of capable WR's now

 

[chagus]

In 2014 Romo was coming back from off season surgery and his heath was in question. We went on to establish a dominate running game with Murray and really form a team identity, ultimately wining the division and ending one game out from the NFC championship. We were ranked 7th in offense and 19th in defense.

In 2015 we lost our captain and the ship sank. Our running game arguably suffered from the lack of a complete back, while still being top 5 due to the best OL in football. We all know the story. Offense ranked 22nd, defense ranked 17th.

Now in 2016, we again see Romo returning from off season surgery. We again have our bell cow RB to enjoy our dominate OL. Our defense, while still a work in progress, should be again mediocre. Obviously Romo's heath is paramount, but keeping faith that he stays upright, 2016 is shaping up to look a lot like 2014. If we can keep Romo healthy and find a way to move the defense from mediocre to good (like top 15) then this team has every chance of being a contender, just like they were in 2014.

 

[waldoputty]

Ok, lets start with baby steps here:

-do you agree that during the first 4 games we are worse off on the Dline?
-do you agree that both defenses are NOT GOOD?

I am just comparing defense of 2016 to 2014.
The 2014 team almost made it to NFC championship game.
If we had Zeke instead of Murray, we may have made it.

Now 2014 defense may not be good enough because Cam may have changed the competitive landscape.
Thank god they did not get a 1st/2nd round WR.

Regarding 1st 4 games, actually we did not have Lawrence for basically the 1st 10 games of 2014.
So we are really only missing Randy - who was not there in 2014 either.
I think we can plug in the other DEs (Irving, Tapper, Mayowa, Crawford, Russell) for the 1st 4 games and be roughly the same as 2014.

I agree that 2016 defense is not good.
How bad is hard to say.
Lets hope Randy grows up and plays to his ability.

 

[DFWJC]

They were both stars in college at Ohio State. Byars was drafted #10 overall. Was considered a smart, tough player who wasn't going to wow you with athleticism. Zeke is practically the same guy. They are almost the same exact height except Byars had about 15 pounds on him.




YR

I don't see the similarities you speak of other than versatility.
They sure don't remind of each other as runners, and definitely not size-wise either.

Where I do agree, is I don't see Zeke as any sort of transcendent player.
His rarity is that he is very good at all phases of the position...and great at pass blocking. He's not rare as a runner though. Not imo.
In any case, I think he does upgrade a run game that was already going to be good.