Is Travis Frederick Struggling in Camp?

[Stash]

I've heard that Martin and Smith have been dominant. I haven't heard much of anything regarding Frederick except for when players have giving him issues. I'd love to see the positive reports about him, which was the point of this thread as opposed to everyone going into high alert defense mode.

It's simply a result of Cowboy-on-Cowboy reports. If one of them is reportedly doing well, there's a perception that the guy they made the play against isn't.

I look at it this way, Frederick is well-established as one of the best at his position. He hasn't suddenly lost it. But conversely, it's nice to see that what was a questionable group of interior defensive linemen is making plays against arguably the league's best offensive line

 

[gimmesix]

I keep hearing reports of him getting jobbed by a bunch of no-namers...

I would think OL vs. DL drills are toughest on centers because the defensive lineman has the freedom to try anything since he doesn't have to worry about either guard. It's essentially one-on-one blocking with no restrictions for the DT.

What makes Frederick one of the top center is that he can match power for power, which means that DTs can't just drive him back into the quarterback like they can with some centers one-on-one. In a box with all five offensive linemen in there, there isn't enough room to try to maneuver around the center like these DL can do in these drills, so they either have to take on Frederick's strength, stunt, loop or get caught up in a combo block.

In other words, the fleeter-footed OL are going to look better in this drill than a heavier-footed OL like Frederick, but it's no cause for alarm. (And it also probably means that players like Price and Woods aren't as good as they might look because of it. Individual drills can make some players look like stars because they focus on certain skills and not others.)

 

[Galian Beast]

I would think OL vs. DL drills are toughest on centers because the defensive lineman has the freedom to try anything since he doesn't have to worry about either guard. It's essentially one-on-one blocking with no restrictions for the DT.

What makes Frederick one of the top center is that he can match power for power, which means that DTs can't just drive him back into the quarterback like they can with some centers one-on-one. In a box with all five offensive linemen in there, there isn't enough room to try to maneuver around the center like these DL can do in these drills, so they either have to take on Frederick's strength, stunt, loop or get caught up in a combo block.

In other words, the fleeter-footed OL are going to look better in this drill than a heavier-footed OL like Frederick, but it's no cause for alarm. (And it also probably means that players like Price and Woods aren't as good as they might look because of it. Individual drills can make some players look like stars because they focus on certain skills and not others.)

I'd agree with you, but I've never seen reports of any struggles before for him and he is usually mentioned as one of the top players on the team. I haven't seen him have any standout days, while Martin and Smith have.

 

[visionary]

I keep hearing reports of him getting jobbed by a bunch of no-namers...

They're that good

 

[ScipioCowboy]

ROFL. You must have never really seen the 92/93 unit play. This unit is very good & with Connor Williams may be better than ever but Eric Williams by himself made that unit better. If he doesn't get injured, he is probably universally recognized as the greatest RT of all time. What he did against the best of the best was ridiculous.

Between he & Gogan there was a fear factor that was equal to another player.

I did see it...and not through a lens of nostalgia.

Smith > Tuinie
Williams < Nate
Fred > Step
Martin > Gogan/Gesek
Collins < Williams

I mean, you’re free to appeal to some unquantifiable fear factor, but in terms of sheer talent, the current line is better than any other than the 1995 unit.

 

[gimmesix]

I'd agree with you, but I've never seen reports of any struggles before for him and he is usually mentioned as one of the top players on the team. I haven't seen him have any standout days, while Martin and Smith have.

Martin and Smith are both very agile offensive linemen, so defensive linemen cannot outmaneuver them. The only "struggles" we've seen with Frederick are on some of these one-on-one drills, which again do not play to his strengths. These need to be taken with a grain of salt. If he struggles in team drills, then there's cause for concern ... and I have not heard of him having any struggles there.

We tend to get too caught up in drills, when they can favor certain players. For instance, Cole Beasley is almost impossible to cover one-on-one on the short routes, so he's mostly looked great in camp facing that kind of coverage (except when he's tried to get over the top because he doesn't have the speed for it). Beasley's numbers were down last year because teams didn't cover him one-on-one, and we didn't try to make them pay for it by going over the top with him ... because he doesn't have the speed for it.

 

[1972COWBOY]

Travis doesn't want to hurt anyone !!!!!

 

[diefree666]

On a player by player comparison, yes; however, as a unit the 1992/1993 OLines were dominant.

Also the current unit lacks the Erik Williams fear factor. IMO EW in 92/93 (pre car wreck) was the most dominant and feared OL in NFL history. He was the best player at his position on those teams. None of Emmitt, Aikman, Irvin or Haley were consensus #1 rated at their position but most people including John Madden rated EW as the best.

EW had 3 Pro Bowl and 2 All-Pro selections AFTER the car wreck but he was never remotely close to the same player.

Many Cowboys fans think Larry Allen was the most feared but LA just bullied people because it was fun. EW was an angry player that literally wanted to kill the opponent.

disagree. it was noted around 1999 and on until his injury that DTs consistently ASKED to be put on the injured list prior to playing against LA so that when they got wiped they could say they were injured.

 

[McKDaddy]

I did see it...and not through a lens of nostalgia.

Smith > Tuinie
Williams < Nate
Fred > Step
Martin > Gogan/Gesek
Collins < Williams

I mean, you’re free to appeal to some unquantifiable fear factor, but in terms of sheer talent, the current line is better than any other than the 1995 unit.

I agree the "fear factor" is only subjectively quantifiable ... but real nonetheless.

As for math, I wouldn't disagree too much with your summary above except that Martin is at best equal to Gogan which would give each unit two wins & a draw. However if you quantify your "greater thans", the amount that the 93 unit is greater than the current unit is the larger #. Again, largely due to E Williams.

The 93 unit was pure power with good mobility for their size. Step being the only finesse player. They just mauled people in an era where the defenders were much larger across the line as well. The current unit is a more athletic looking group but without the raw strength across the board. To date, those 90's units were the best O line in history. Current unit may very well be the best line of this era but to suggest they are better than the 90's units would mean they are the best ever. I don't think that is a correct assessment.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I agree the "fear factor" is only subjectively quantifiable ... but real nonetheless.

As for math, I wouldn't disagree too much with your summary above except that Martin is at best equal to Gogan which would give each unit two wins & a draw. However if you quantify your "greater thans", the amount that the 93 unit is greater than the current unit is the larger #. Again, largely due to E Williams.

The 93 unit was pure power with good mobility for their size. Step being the only finesse player. They just mauled people in an era where the defenders were much larger across the line as well. The current unit is a more athletic looking group but without the raw strength across the board. To date, those 90's units were the best O line in history. Current unit may very well be the best line of this era but to suggest they are better than the 90's units would mean they are the best ever. I don't think that is a correct assessment.

Gogan was never regarded as the best guard in the game.

 

[McKDaddy]

Gogan was never regarded as the best guard in the game.

Perhaps not in official accolades but the testimony of all who played with & against is pretty conclusive that no one volunteered to face him. When HOFers & other highly respected players talk about how they dreaded facing him & to hold their own was an accomplishment it speaks volumes.

Same for Larry Allen. When you listen to what everyone says and conversely won't say, it is the ultimate vote of respect by those who truly know how good they were.

We may disagree on this subject but the fact that the current group allows us to even have this debate is good news, right?

 

[America's Cowboy]

A couple of clips showed him getting beat.

From there, people have spun it to he's really struggling at camp and even Marinelli, himself, bull rushed him into the QB.

And then that's why you get questions from others wondering if he's struggling. It's the danger of the media posting a random clip on twitter

Disagree. It's Frederick's technique and reluctance to fire out and stay low, instead of standing up, that have him getting beat. If that doesn't concern anyone, it should. The Oline goes according to how the Center goes. Plus, the fastest path to the QB/RB is through the Center.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

I'd agree with you, but I've never seen reports of any struggles before for him and he is usually mentioned as one of the top players on the team. I haven't seen him have any standout days, while Martin and Smith have.

Still have not seen any reports of him struggling.

 

[xwalker]

disagree. it was noted around 1999 and on until his injury that DTs consistently ASKED to be put on the injured list prior to playing against LA so that when they got wiped they could say they were injured.

That concept started with Erik Williams but the media just didn't pick up on it.

Not sure if you think you are telling me something I didn't know. Everyone at CZ knows about Allen-itis where players faked injury to avoid facing him.

All good Cowboys fans should have seen this multiple times:

 

[lukin2006]

Travis should be the least of our worries ... actually our o-line is the least of my worries. He's a vet, he'll be ready for Carolina on opening day.

 

[CouchCoach]

He's a vet with nothing to prove and a smart one, going all out the first week of camp for vets is dumb. If he showed up in shape, no one is concerned about him.

 

[plasticman]

Perhaps the "cup half full" question is, "Are the DT''s improving?".

That's the thing about training camp. If one player is being dominated doesn't that imply his opponent is dominating?

 

[Ren]

Not worried he's one of the most consistent players on this team he's not going to suddenly be bad

 

[Rockport]

I keep hearing reports of him getting jobbed by a bunch of no-namers...

Geez.

 

[Galian Beast]

Does this still belong in the drama zone?