Is Zeke a top 3 running back?

[G2]

Street you of all people should know better than to use a bulk stat like that.
Yoi thought Zeke played well in 2017?

He did play well. He averaged 100 yards per game.
He averaged the same ypc as last season.
He also had more TDs that all of last season. (5 games less)

The running game team-wide was more productive in 2017 than last season by over 200 yards without Elliott for 6 games.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

He did play well. He averaged 100 yards per game.
He averaged the same ypc as last season.
He also had more TDs that all of last season. (5 games less)

The running game team-wide was more productive in 2017 than last season by over 200 yards without Elliott for 6 games.

He did not average the same ypc as last season:
2017 ypc
Zeke 4.1
2018 Zeke- 4.7
Morris- 4.8

For reference, 4.1 yards per attempt is lower than replacement level

Exavtly! That's a knock on Zeke to have your rushing attack be more potent without you for 6 games than with you.

 

[mcmvp]

Same story at other positions not just RB.

Perhaps, but not to the same degree. Especially when you consider the avg RB career span. They are due for their big pay day just a year or two before they typically fall off a cliff in production. That is not the case for all positions. Linemen can play even better during their second contracts for example. So no, it's not exactly the same with every position

 

[mcmvp]

That's a knock on Zeke to have your rushing attack be more potent without you for 6 games than with you.

Not really. If looked at in a vacuum, I suppose it could look that way. If defenses were playing the Cowboys differently because they knew they were not going to be facing Zeke, which I'm sure they were, then it really doesn't tell you much.

 

[G2]

He did not average the same ypc as last season:
2017 ypc
Zeke 4.1
2018 Zeke- 4.7
Morris- 4.8

For reference, 4.1 yards per attempt is lower than replacement level

Exavtly! That's a knock on Zeke to have your rushing attack be more potent without you for 6 games than with you.

I misspoke, you are correct on the ypc.
Moot point really, because he still played well regardless.

 

[G2]

Not really. If looked at in a vacuum, I suppose it could look that way. If defenses were playing the Cowboys differently because they knew they were not going to be facing Zeke, which I'm sure they were, then it really doesn't tell you much.

I don't like to compare unequal sample sizes because generally the more games you play, the more watered down the percentages can become. 6 games isn't fairly compared to 10 IMO.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Not really. If looked at in a vacuum, I suppose it could look that way. If defenses were playing the Cowboys differently because they knew they were not going to be facing Zeke, which I'm sure they were, then it really doesn't tell you much.

Alfred Morris saw 8 defenders or more in the box at a higher clip than Zeke did in 2017.
38% compared to 35%

So yeah, looks even worse.

Tells you a lot

 

[G2]

Alfred Morris saw 8 defenders or more in the box at a higher clip than Zeke did in 2017.
38% compared to 35%

So yeah, looks even worse.

Tells you a lot

But with 4 less games. Not really an accurate way to compare.

 

[mcmvp]

Alfred Morris saw 8 defenders or more in the box at a higher clip than Zeke did in 2017.
38% compared to 35%

So yeah, looks even worse.

Tells you a lot

Good info...then yes, that would tell you a little more. Not sure if it tells you ‘a lot’. We are still talking about a rather small sample size.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

But with 4 less games. Not really an accurate way to compare.

6 games compared to 10 isn't much of a difference.

It's the best way to compare.

 

[G2]

6 games compared to 10 isn't much of a difference.

It's the best way to compare.

Lol, what? No it's not the best way at all.

Agree to disagree, this friendly debate has shifted into silly mode.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Lol, what? No it's not the best way at all.

Agree to disagree, this friendly debate has shifted into silly mode.

If it's not the best way, then what is Street?

 

[ThatJerryKid]

Terrific, but reminds you of Barry Sanders? LOL As if that is some kind of insult. Hilarious.

Correct, i would take Zeke over Barkley and Sanders. Because of the reason that I stated.

 

[G2]

If it's not the best way, then what is Street?

Simple. The equal amount of games. Look, Morris was a very good option and did a great job when Elliott was out, but he's not on Elliott's level.

A fair comparison would be to compare their first 3 seasons, since Elliott is still playing. And even that isn't comparing the same number of games played.
It's also worth noting that this was by far Morris' 3 best seasons. Just rushing though, passing yardage isn't even close.

Elliott has:
86 more rushing yards.
The same number of TDs

In 8 less games!

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Simple. The equal amount of games. Look, Morris was a very good option and did a great job when Elliott was out, but he's not on Elliott's level.

A fair comparison would be to compare their first 3 seasons, since Elliott is still playing. And even that isn't comparing the same number of games played.
It's also worth noting that this was by far Morris' 3 best seasons. Just rushing though, passing yardage isn't even close.

Elliott has:
86 more rushing yards.
The same number of TDs

In 8 less games!

So you think that using bulk stats from their first three years, when they played in different times and with different supporting casts is better than using an efficiency stat from the same year and the same supporting cast?

We will have to disagree.

Games played does not matter at all, it's about attempts. Morris only had 8 more attempts despite the 6 less games for Zeke.

So Zeke only provided 86 more rushing yards, no more TDs, on 8 less attempts than a player of Alfred Morris' level. This despite walking into the best supporting cast a runner has seen in many many many years.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

That's one game; you could take Zeke's one playoff game vs the Rams and prove he sucks as well. Look at the bigger picture.

He's incapable

He even says Barkleys only big run was in the 4th quarter, but in the game script he posted on Barkley's very first run of the game in the 1st quarter he busted it for 26 yards lol.

I wouldn't waste my time with that guy.

You're right Barkley is a stud, luckily he plays the least important position.

 

[aria]

I’ve said several times I think Zeke is top 3, probably top 2 but I think Barkley is better. What I want to know is how do the people who throw around Zeke’s total rushing yards as the definitive answer to why he’s the best completely ignore how he had a much better O line than Barkley, fumbled the ball 6 times compared to Barkley’s ZERO, had more carries than Barkley hence the most yards and averaged less yards per carry than Barkley?

Anyone who has watched Barkley has seen what he has to work with compared to Zeke, if it were the other way around and Zeke had a better ypc average and less total yards behind a horrendous O Line then the some of you would be using the O line as the main excuse (justifiably so) as to why Zeke is actually the best but his numbers don’t reflect that. Why doesn’t that excuse apply to Barkley?

Why is it every time Zeke has a bad game (see Denver), the Rams, etc then the O line gets all the blame, it’s never Zeke’s fault, but when Barkley is still averaging more yards per carry and barely had less total yards compared to Zeke then the pitiful Giants O line never comes up as a deciding factor?

I’d like someone to answer this instead of ignoring it every time I bring it up, just like ignoring the difference in O lines, fumbles and ypc.

 

[gjkoeppen]

My only question on those backs listed ahead of Elliott is how is it that none of them led the league in rushing 2 out of the last 3 seasons and Elliott did yet they are listed ahead of Elliott? They are RUNNING BACKS and that means their PRIMARY job is to run. Yes they have to block on occasions and they need to catch passes but they're not called blocking backs or pass catching backs but running backs. Are receivers judged by the rushes they may make or the passes they catch and the yards they get?

 

[aria]

My only question on those backs listed ahead of Elliott is how is it that none of them led the league in rushing 2 out of the last 3 seasons and Elliott did yet they are listed ahead of Elliott? They are RUNNING BACKS and that means their PRIMARY job is to run. Yes they have to block on occasions and they need to catch passes but they're not called blocking backs or pass catching backs but running backs. Are receivers judged by the rushes they may make or the passes they catch and the yards they get?

Is this a joke? Ever hear of attempts? I’ll clarify. Zeke had the most attempts, and a better O line, then any other back in 2016 and 2018. Barkley had less attempts, a much worse O line and more yards per carry.

How do you completely ignore the difference in O lines and attempts? I could also mention the fact that Zeke had 6 fumbles last year which led the league but I won’t because homers don’t like to acknowledge that either.

 

[G2]

Is this a joke? Ever hear of attempts? I’ll clarify. Zeke had the most attempts, and a better O line, then any other back in 2016 and 2018. Barkley had less attempts, a much worse O line and more yards per carry.

How do you completely ignore the difference in O lines and attempts? I could also mention the fact that Zeke had 6 fumbles last year which led the league but I won’t because homers don’t like to acknowledge that either.

Lol, but you did mention it