It's time for a brutally honest roster talent evaluation

[TwistedL0g1k]

I can evaluate the results over the last 24 years:

6 head coaches
21 starting QBs
1 GM

Our GM sucks.

Garrett this, Garrett that, I don't know if half of this board is in denial or just rationalizing, but things weren't going along smoothly before Garrett. This trend predates him by over a decade.

I've lost track of how many "windows" we've allegedly had but I do know the Titans accomplished more in the last 10 days than the Cowboys have done this century.

No one other than Jerry Jones would hire Jerry Jones to be his GM.

And especially this:

No one other than Jerry Jones would hire Jerry Jones to be his GM.

 

[visionary]

Do you understand the difference between a fan posting online and an NFL Owner who has been in the league for 30 years?

Do you understand that fans like you have been coming up with one excuse after another to excuse 23 years of Jerry and 10 years of Garrett’s trash?

 

[Kaiser]

Whatever you want to believe

I believe your answer would defeat your premise.

 

[stilltheguru]

I have been saying this for some time. You have to self evaluate. You have to compare the value of the player vs the value of the cap. You also have to consider what your opportunity cost is for keeping the player.

Cooper is a good example of that. He may be the best we have but he’s not a top 5 player so you shouldn’t pay him as if he is. He is probably a 10-20 WR. Davante Parker is every bit as good as him and he just extended for $10m per year. Why pay Cooper $20m per?

Witten is the feel good story and a hall of famer that makes us appreciate greatness. But Tony Dorsett was great at one time too and that doesn’t mean he should still be a cowboy. This nostalgia has to go. Him and Lee have been here far too long.

Tyron Smith MAY still have something left in the tank and he is good value, but if you wait until he has nothing left you will take a cap hit and get nothing for him. Same with Zac Martin.

Tyrons days are numbered. If you can flip Tyron for a first (and maybe a 4th) then do it and get something out of him. The breakdown is coming.

Do the same with Martin. Neither one are as dominant as they were. If Creed Humphries is the best player on your board when you draft you pull the trigger, trade FredBeard for a first and move on.

NE is the BEST at not falling in love with a player. Even Brady was on the hit list. The only reason he is still with the Patriots is Kraft. Turns out The Hoodie was right, Brady fell off the cliff this year and Garroppolo is one game from the SB.

100 percent

 

[blueblood70]

It really doesn't support Jerry's point of view at all.

And this improvement from 2010-2020 is overstated. We have two playoff wins in those 10 years. In fact, you can argue this franchise is no further than either of Wade Phillips' teams that won 13 and 11 games in two of his 3.5 seasons here in 2007 and 2009.

It's also not just the first five years post Jimmy. If you give Jimmy credit for 1995 (since he built the team Switzer won with), the Cowboys made the playoffs 3 times in the next five years (1996-2000). The next five years after that (2001-2005)? We made the playoffs once. The fact he kept Garrett longer than he should have is another strike against this concept that he's learned and was a competent GM.

He's a mediocre GM. History has proven that. However, if what is being reported is true about McCarthy being given way more leeway here (like being able to pick his own staff, etc.) then maybe Jerry is seeing the light and letting people better equipped to make certain decisions actually make those decisions. Maybe the realization that he won't live forever has made him desperate and he knows he has to give up some of his powers.

PS - I am not sure what you mean when you said "we are not part of that list". Yes we are. It's a grouping of the last teams to play in a conference title game. That's simply a fact. 26 other teams in the NFL have made a conference title game since we last did. We absolutely are part of that list. Also, if you look at our 4 playoff wins since 1995? We rank in the bottom of the league there as well. You can deny it all you want but this franchise has been WAY CLOSER to the ineptitude of the Skins and Browns and Bengals than we are to the successes of the Pats or Steelers or Packers over the last two decades.

blah blah blah Jerry in the HOF he still owns the team, he still will be GM and either live with it or all you are doing is arguing an unwinnable point..

if you hate it so much move on to another team you have 26 to chose from, I choose this one and The jonses brought 3 SB wins in 30 years one more then the 30years prior..

it hasn't been fun at times but we have an ownership that will not change themselves out so we can b happy a new staff was hired..

 

[Verdict]

Do you understand that fans like you have been coming up with one excuse after another to excuse 23 years of Jerry and 10 years of Garrett’s trash?

Resistance is futile. Assimilation is inevitable.

 

[Sydla]

blah blah blah Jerry in the HOF he still owns the team, he still will be GM and either live with it or all you are doing is arguing an unwinnable point..

if you hate it so much move on to another team you have 26 to chose from, I choose this one and The jonses brought 3 SB wins in 30 years one more then the 30years prior..

it hasn't been fun at times but we have an ownership that will not change themselves out so we can b happy a new staff was hired..

As expected you have no real factual retort.

He's in the Hall of Fame because he's an owner of a three time SB champ team and his contributions to the league in the form of marketing and revenue generation. Using his Hall of Fame entry as some sort of proof he's a good football man or has acumen as a GM, as some have tried, is kind of preposterous.

 

[blueblood70]

As expected you have no real factual retort.

He's in the Hall of Fame because he's an owner of a three time SB champ team and his contributions to the league in the form of marketing and revenue generation. Using his Hall of Fame entry as some sort of proof he's a good football man or has acumen as a GM, as some have tried, is kind of preposterous.

I do hes in the HOF and his ownership includes being agm, hes put the talent on thefield and that talent with coahcig has failed him/.. he cant control the playoff failures of players

Romo bobbled snap in 2003 caused BillP to retire early which we let Peyton walk as we didnt know this was going to happen so suddently, set us back

then 2007 is the Crayton debacle

2014 GB you have Murray fumble Baily miss 2 FGs and the Dez no catch play

2016 Rogers made a ridiculous play, tam played well just came up shrt..

its hard to blame jerry for those misfortunes, the teams were good enough talent wise, just had worst luck..

again i realize he kept garett a bit longer and that was a tough one but 3 divsions in 6 years with opootunitys in the playoffs..it simply didnt come together but his ownership and as a GM in title he is resonbibe for the 3 superbowls..jimmy ouldnt have been here if not for Jerry

it is what it is..

I say hes a lot better and its ti e to stop looking backl on the [past and keeping spewing the OMG its been 25years narrative.. we know but its not all his doing or undoing..

 

[DuncanIso]

I have been saying this for some time. You have to self evaluate. You have to compare the value of the player vs the value of the cap. You also have to consider what your opportunity cost is for keeping the player.

Cooper is a good example of that. He may be the best we have but he’s not a top 5 player so you shouldn’t pay him as if he is. He is probably a 10-20 WR. Davante Parker is every bit as good as him and he just extended for $10m per year. Why pay Cooper $20m per?

Witten is the feel good story and a hall of famer that makes us appreciate greatness. But Tony Dorsett was great at one time too and that doesn’t mean he should still be a cowboy. This nostalgia has to go. Him and Lee have been here far too long.

Tyron Smith MAY still have something left in the tank and he is good value, but if you wait until he has nothing left you will take a cap hit and get nothing for him. Same with Zac Martin.

Tyrons days are numbered. If you can flip Tyron for a first (and maybe a 4th) then do it and get something out of him. The breakdown is coming.

Do the same with Martin. Neither one are as dominant as they were. If Creed Humphries is the best player on your board when you draft you pull the trigger, trade FredBeard for a first and move on.

NE is the BEST at not falling in love with a player. Even Brady was on the hit list. The only reason he is still with the Patriots is Kraft. Turns out The Hoodie was right, Brady fell off the cliff this year and Garroppolo is one game from the SB.

disagree with all this.

the time to rebuild the OL is 3-4 seasons from now.

 

[cowboyec]

DE.....you can NEVER have enough....and if Quinn leaves....it becomes a important need.
I do like Joe Jackson and Im hangin' in there with Armstrong.
but you can never have enough good,solid DEs...not just sack masters....but ones who play the run just as hard.....or study tape of Too Tall and GET THEIR HANDS UP TO KNOCK DOWN THE PASS.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Mike McCarthy is a good hire. He gives us a realistic chance to maximize the talent we have, but perhaps more importantly, he gives us the opportunity to have a fresh set of eyes to evaluate this team’s roster. This team needs a really good offseason to evaluate its talent and upgrade where needed.

One of the weaknesses of our organization the last two decades is too often having a rosy estimate of our talent. The best NFL GMs are willing and able to look at players critically and determine how much tread is on the tire of a player and their true value in a hard salary cap.

I’m of the opinion that most of us as fans, and sadly even the Jones power brokers, tend to overvalue our talent. That’s normal for fans. It’s not normal for a good front office.

With that in mind, here are some positions and roster spots (in no particular order) I believe need some real scrutiny:

• LT- Truly one of the 3 most important positions on a team includes LT. From 2011-2018, Tyron Smith was one of the best players in the NFL and perhaps even the best player on the Cowboys roster. But back and knee injuries have made Ty Smith a lot more human. We need to consider that his days as a top LT are winding down.

• Safety- a no brainer. We haven’t had great talent at this position for too long. It’s time for this team to invest in a premium draft pick at a long time position of need.

• DT- a close second to safety in obvious need. Another position where we have settled for mid-late round draft picks or cheap retreads. It’s past time to address this position early in the draft.

• WR- Amari Cooper is a great talent and he certainly helped this team for two years. But I don’t believe in investing huge cap space on a position that is one of the easiest to find talent. Michael Gallup’s emergence also makes giving huge cap dollars to Cooper less attractive. I favor moving on from him and saving some cash.

• LB- I still believe a healthy LVE is a great talent. I’m a little concerned about Jaylon after his big contract but he’s still certainly a talent. This team still needs LB talent. We should probably say goodbye to Sean Lee though. Love the guy and what he has meant to this team. But it’s better to cut a guy a year early than too late.
  
  
• Guard- I’m not convinced that Connor Williams is a starter. He’s ok at best. Maybe Connor Macgovern is an upgrade and Williams just becomes a decent backup. But this position needs to be addressed.
  
  
• TE- Jason Witten needs to go. He’s a HOFer but he’s done. We need another TE probably from the draft to complement the emergence of Blake Jarwin.

There are probably more positions of need not mentioned above. But it’s certainly clear this team needs upgrades at multiple positions. In general, I would say the defense has the most glaring needs. But I also hope Coach Mac is able to bring a more discerning eye on this roster. And that we can stop being married to a player too long because “we love them”.

Tyron looked healthier than 2017 and 2018. He missed games this year, but there weren't from chronic back issues, but just injuries. He may have a big setback, but I don't think he's a near term replacement unless you're planning rebuild.

I'm more worried about Jaylon. He's the guy on the field whose health looks clearly off, and unlike Tyron, he appears to be getting chronically worse. And LVE can play, but already a couple of fused disks, with known spinal narrowing and a little vertigo to top it off. Those two guys were supposed to be our all star anchors on the defense as far as the eye can see, but now, there's serious doubt about both.

That's another reason to keep Lee. You get rid of guys early, but Lee already took a pay cut, and at that price, he represents value.

Safety and DT clear are clear near term needs.

DT in particular. We've got Woods and the overpriced and now chronically injured Crawford. Apparently missing on Hill is brutal. We could take DTs with our first two picks and still be undermanned.

Irving Gone. Taco should be giving us strong rotational pass rush from DT too. Gone. Gregory. Who knows? We could draft a DE too. The Dline Whisperer ain't looking so great anymore.

So much bad news in 2019 for the defensive roster in 2020. Add to it our kajillion dollar man having a clear drop in performance this year, and that's *with* a double digit sack RDE opposite him.

Witten needs to go. Under 5 yards per target in the second half of the season. Gots to go.

And Jarwin is not the future either, unless we can extend him cheap this offseason. At best he'll be an average player hitting free agency in 2021, and we don't sign those.

It's absurd how much we used two TE sets the last couple of years when we've had *nothing* on the roster. Maybe McCarthy will move to 3 WR as more of a standard. Maybe 4 after Jarwin leaves.

I can't see us moving on from Cooper. Even though the draft pick is sunk cost, Jerry would lose too much face by letting Cooper walk.

 

[Bobhaze]

You are ducking my question. Name one HOF voter that says Jerry knows nothing about football and the football side had zero to do with his HOF election. Because that was the claim several others have made in this thread and you are backing up.

Well, there’s Rick Gosselin in his Dallas MN article from 2017 that I referenced earlier. (Obviously I can’t post the link) Gosselin is a local reporter who votes for the HOF. He made it clear in his headline why JJ made the HOF: “Cowboys Owner Jerry Jones earned Hall of Fame jacket by changing the way the NFL does business”.

Gosselin supported JJs election to HOF but he’s made it clear it was for his “business contributions”. And I agree JJ deserved to go in as a “contributor”.

 

[Sydla]

I do hes in the HOF and his ownership includes being agm, hes put the talent on thefield and that talent with coahcig has failed him/.. he cant control the playoff failures of players

Romo bobbled snap in 2003 caused BillP to retire early which we let Peyton walk as we didnt know this was going to happen so suddently, set us back

then 2007 is the Crayton debacle

2014 GB you have Murray fumble Baily miss 2 FGs and the Dez no catch play

2016 Rogers made a ridiculous play, tam played well just came up shrt..

its hard to blame jerry for those misfortunes, the teams were good enough talent wise, just had worst luck..

again i realize he kept garett a bit longer and that was a tough one but 3 divsions in 6 years with opootunitys in the playoffs..it simply didnt come together but his ownership and as a GM in title he is resonbibe for the 3 superbowls..jimmy ouldnt have been here if not for Jerry

it is what it is..

I say hes a lot better and its ti e to stop looking backl on the [past and keeping spewing the OMG its been 25years narrative.. we know but its not all his doing or undoing..

This is pretty ridiculous.

He's not in the Hall of Fame for his GM work. Stop.

It's been 24 years since we played in a SB. 24. We've made the playoffs less than half those years. We have 4 playoff wins total. You can't seriously sit there and blame all that futility just on the players. He's made mistakes in player personnel. He's also shown himself to be a horrible judge of coaching talent as well, which is precisely another key responsibility of a GM. Dave Campo? Chan Gailey? Garrett for a decade?

He's a mediocre GM, at best, when you look at the entire landscape, all that fell under his control and the overall results over the last two decades. Again, we've performed in the BOTTOM THIRD OF ALL NFL FRANCHISES in terms of conference champ game appearances, playoff appearances, playoff wins over those 24 years. How anyone can sit there and suggest that Jerry has done a good job as GM building this franchise is beyond me when you look at our postseason record when Jerry has had all the control himself is bizarre.

 

[buybuydandavis]

• LT- Tyron is going to continue to wear down and thus a swing tackle must be kept. But you aren't replacing him without using a top 10 pick. Connor Williams may well be the back up LT next year. He has the quickness but will need even more strength and lots of technique work. Can CWill do the job the 3-4 games a year you project Tyron likely misses? I am guessing yes
• Guard- I really like the DAL OG depth so am willing to shift CWill outside and leave McGovern to battle Looney and others inside.

Best case scenario is McGovern winning LG, with Williams being our backup G/T on game day. Unlike most, I think Williams is an ok starting LG, is probably a better T, and would be an asset to our jumbo packages. They should see if he can catch a 3 yard pass.

 

[buybuydandavis]

but try to develop jarwin into a flex te moved around a lot in motion type

That's what he did in college. FB/TE/WR. Disappointing we didn't try him more that way, particularly with Olawale being such a flop.

 

[kskboys]

And you claimed Jerry is in the HOF only because of "business contributions", which is laughable.

Why would you say that? I'm really not understanding your line of thought here. Jerry made the HOF for his contributions, not as a GM. His contributions are that he showed the NFL how to make tons of money.

Exactly how is that not business contributions?

 

[kskboys]

He was the GM for a team that won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.

That alone is basically a qualifier.

Since that's not why he got in, I guess the rest of the NFL doesn't agree w/ you.

 

[kskboys]

Please name them, with their comments that Jerry knows nothing about the football side. I'll wait.

You are seriously going through life w/ blinders on not to know this.

 

[CowboyFanInLexKy]

Agreed with everything. Our whole D-line is in need. I like Quinn, but he's getting old. We need a young DE to compliment D-Law. We need 2 stuffing DT's. Woods was good every 3 games (not counting his games where he was injured). CB. We have 3 FA CB's. I want to tag Byron as he might be better at tracking the ball under a new defensive scheme, but I'm not sure.

We have lot of evaluating to do. I also want faster players. If you look at the Chiefs and 49ers, a lot of their players have bursts and speed. Our players are slow in comparison. We need to pay attention in the combine and observe the speed of players in positions we need.

I was going to reply to the OP and then I read what you just said. I can't add anything to it. You nailed it perfectly.

 

[Bobhaze]

blah blah blah Jerry in the HOF he still owns the team, he still will be GM and either live with it or all you are doing is arguing an unwinnable point..

if you hate it so much move on to another team you have 26 to chose from, I choose this one and The jonses brought 3 SB wins in 30 years one more then the 30years prior..

it hasn't been fun at times but we have an ownership that will not change themselves out so we can b happy a new staff was hired..

Why do we so often end up with this response? Can’t we still be Cowboys fans with different opinions w/out being asked to “move on to another team”? Blue I don’t think you mean what this sounds like- but that’s insulting to even suggest to a fellow fan that they take their fandom elsewhere if they have a certain opinion. Differing opinions shouldn’t lead to calls to move on to another team. I think you’re better than that.