Jags after Bentley as well

[AbeBeta]

Just cause he did not give up the sack personally, doesn't mean is did a whole lot to help the play out. Johnson is the smallest big dude I have ever seen. The guy weights 300 lbs damn near and plays like hes at a buck 50. I just dont like Johnson, unless he gets mean and nasty and quits getting blown off the line.

but someone is saying he was getting pushed back into Bledsoe's face on every pass play.

just striving for a bit of accuracy here -- because if he was getting beaten that badly on every pass, you'd expect he would at least occassionally have his guy sack the QB -- I mean Drew ain't exactly elusive back there.

 

[Alexander]

but someone is saying he was getting pushed back into Bledsoe's face on every pass play..

No, that would Rob Petitti.

 

[AbeBeta]

No, that would Rob Petitti.

at least the stats support that claim.

 

[Ashwynn]

but someone is saying he was getting pushed back into Bledsoe's face on every pass play.

just striving for a bit of accuracy here -- because if he was getting beaten that badly on every pass, you'd expect he would at least occassionally have his guy sack the QB -- I mean Drew ain't exactly elusive back there.

Watch him, he gets blown backwards before hes even standing straight up on a lot of plays, Like I said, for a 6'6 - 295lb man or whatever he is, hes the smallest 300 lber I have ever seen. I would much prefer an upgrade at center over any other position on the team, including kicker.

 

[AbeBeta]

Watch him, he gets blown backwards before hes even standing straight up on a lot of plays, Like I said, for a 6'6 - 295lb man or whatever he is, hes the smallest 300 lber I have ever seen. I would much prefer an upgrade at center over any other position on the team, including kicker.

yeah, we'll see -- me, I think it is more about the guys on either side of him not playing well.

 

[Paniolo22]

but someone is saying he was getting pushed back into Bledsoe's face on every pass play.

just striving for a bit of accuracy here -- because if he was getting beaten that badly on every pass, you'd expect he would at least occassionally have his guy sack the QB -- I mean Drew ain't exactly elusive back there.

Actually, the quote was "weekly", NOT on every play, since you're STRIVING for accuracy . Also, just because he gets pushed back into Bledsoe's face, that = sacks? How about pressures? How about bad throws? Bad runs? Come on, read more carefully and stop trying to be a stickler, you're bad at it.

 

[burmafrd]

Yakuza's research of him showed his problems- which is that he is just not strong enough to get the job done. BP has said he is maxed out as regards weight training; so all he can do is improve his technique; which realistically cannot be expected to improve THAT much more then he has now.

 

[AbeBeta]

Actually, the quote was "weekly", NOT on every play, since you're STRIVING for accuracy . Also, just because he gets pushed back into Bledsoe's face, that = sacks? How about pressures? How about bad throws? Bad runs? Come on, read more carefully and stop trying to be a stickler, you're bad at it.

I didn't say it would always equal sacks -- but if he's getting beat so freaking bad you'd at least expect a few. like maybe more than one.

I'm not saying the guy is awesome -- but I just don't see his play as being as bad as everyone here says. but that's just me - someone who actually watches the games.

 

[AbeBeta]

Yakuza's research of him showed his problems- which is that he is just not strong enough to get the job done. BP has said he is maxed out as regards weight training; so all he can do is improve his technique; which realistically cannot be expected to improve THAT much more then he has now.

With all due respect to Yakuza's research, it is very difficult to statistically separate the performance of a center from the guards on either side of him. Yak's data do demonstrate that our interior sucked. Me, I think it works like this -- Johnson's play suffered because the guard play suffered -- the guard play suffered because the tackles couldn't get it done.

Again, I'm not saying Johnson is great -- but I do think he can be a starter in this league if he has better talent around him.

 

[burmafrd]

My big worry about Johnson is getting pushed back into the pocket- that way the QB cannot step up.

 

[Paniolo22]

I didn't say it would always equal sacks -- but if he's getting beat so freaking bad you'd at least expect a few. like maybe more than one.

I'm not saying the guy is awesome -- but I just don't see his play as being as bad as everyone here says. but that's just me - someone who actually watches the games.

Hey, I watch every game, and at least once a game, (hence "weekly") Johnson is pushed back into Bledsoes face causing a bad throw or something else. Again, don't only go by sacks, look at the bad plays. I don't think he is the worst OL we have, BUT, we definitely can use an upgrade.

PS- Someone else who watches, but obviously sees something different.

 

[AbeBeta]

Hey, I watch every game, and at least once a game, (hence "weekly") Johnson is pushed back into Bledsoes face causing a bad throw or something else. Again, don't only go by sacks, look at the bad plays. I don't think he is the worst OL we have, BUT, we definitely can use an upgrade.

PS- Someone else who watches, but obviously sees something different.

Well, I think the part we don't know is why he's getting pushed back. Is it that he sucks? or that the guy to his left was supposed to come on a double team but whiffed?

 

[shnagy]

With all due respect to Yakuza's research, it is very difficult to statistically separate the performance of a center from the guards on either side of him. Yak's data do demonstrate that our interior sucked. Me, I think it works like this -- Johnson's play suffered because the guard play suffered -- the guard play suffered because the tackles couldn't get it done.

Again, I'm not saying Johnson is great -- but I do think he can be a starter in this league if he has better talent around him.

I think this sums up the line perfectly. The O-line did alright until Flo went down, and when the play from the tackles deteriorated, so did everything else. But when it comes to Bentley, I would like to have him. But for the price tag (if he isn't franchised) he is going to carry, no thanks.

 

[Paniolo22]

Well, I think the part we don't know is why he's getting pushed back. Is it that he sucks? or that the guy to his left was supposed to come on a double team but whiffed?

True. I think it's funny that if you look at the guard and center stats, you'll have a combined sack count of about 5. Look at the tackles and it goes up to 25. How much of the 25 were to blame on the G and C?

 

[Rack]

My big worry about Johnson is getting pushed back into the pocket- that way the QB cannot step up.

Johnson's pass blocking is fine. It's his run blocking we have to worry about. A Center is rarely one on one in pass protection anyway. He gets pushed back in the running game.

 

[AbeBeta]

True. I think it's funny that if you look at the guard and center stats, you'll have a combined sack count of about 5. Look at the tackles and it goes up to 25. How much of the 25 were to blame on the G and C?

Most of those 25 looked to me like the tackles got beat one on one. In a few cases the TE blew a chip block, leaving the tackle in a poor position to stop the rusher.

Guards and centers usually have low sack #s - but if our center was getting pushed into the QB you'd expect him to give some up. i mean, where is the DT going on that play?

 

[Paniolo22]

Most of those 25 looked to me like the tackles got beat one on one. In a few cases the TE blew a chip block, leaving the tackle in a poor position to stop the rusher.

Guards and centers usually have low sack #s - but if our center was getting pushed into the QB you'd expect him to give some up. i mean, where is the DT going on that play?

The image I'm projecting is like.....let's see if you can imagine what an Al Johnson Sandwich would look like. Bledsoe as the top bun and the DT as the bottom.

 

[sago1]

We've already discussed the need for Johnson to add weight but Parcells has said Johnson's frame, despite his size, won't allow him to add more weight and keep it on. He struggles to even maintain 305 and I suspect he frequently drops down to 295. He must improve his technique, leverage ability and familiarity with center position. Of course, even if he does that there is no guarantee he will ever be a quality starting NFL center.

I do believe Parcells will attempt upgrade center position. His inserting Gurode for Johnson on numerous occasions shows he clearly wants better play at that position. If we can't sign Bentley, Tennesse Hartwig & Atlanta Michell also FAs and they ranked just below Bentley. Also if Jets indeed must jettison some players to get down to cap, one player may easily be there center, Malawi, who just refused renegotiate his salary. Malawi is coming back from shoulder? injury but came to the Jets when Parcells was there.

 

[AbeBeta]

Who is Malawi? Do you mean Mawae?

 

[Paniolo22]

I do believe Parcells will attempt upgrade center position. His inserting Gurode for Johnson on numerous occasions shows he clearly wants better play at that position. If we can't sign Bentley, Tennesse Hartwig & Atlanta Michell also FAs and they ranked just below Bentley. Also if Jets indeed must jettison some players to get down to cap, one player may easily be there center, Malawi, who just refused renegotiate his salary. Malawi is coming back from shoulder? injury but came to the Jets when Parcells was there.

Just below Bentley may be overstating a bit, but I'd take them anyway. Just not for big money.