Jahmyr Gibbs at WR vs Zay Flowers

[cnuball21]

Everyone always thinks they're gonna throw to that cool new web-back RB. But how many teams actually do?

IMO, it's more of a QB thing than an offensive scheme thing, or an RB talent thing. IE, Tom Brady loved throwing wheel routes to running backs. You give him Kevin Faulk or James White, he's a happy man. But if the best you've got is Leonard Fournette, he's still willing to target the hell out of Leonard Fournette. And an RB knocked in college for his receiving ability winds up with 70 catches.

On the other hand, you give Patrick Mahomes a 1st round receiving back in CEH, and Mahomes is just gonna ignore him and keep hunting for big plays downfield. That's his style.

Heck, Joe Burrow just walked into a Bengals offense with Mixon and threw him 60 receptions last year. It's wasn't all CEH generating those college numbers.

I have no hard data on this, but I would love for PFF or Football Outsiders or someone to commission a study. Do RB catches correlate more closely with the player's talent, or with the QB's history of targeting his backs?

Anyway, dragging it back to the Cowboys. Looking it up, we target our backs at a league average rate, and I've never really seen Dak as favoring his running backs. I just don't think we're the right team to get the most out of Gibbs.

Outside of Gibbs having 0 chance of being as good a value of Flowers…this is also an important point.

 

[Pass2Run]

Cool. And he caught 44 balls total. How many were from the slot?

TP was a freaking WR in college and we barely throw him the ball. You think Gibbs is going to come in here and be better value than a legit 1st round WR prospect like Flowers ? He’s a good pass catching complimentary back.

It’s a hard, firm heck no.

If he's a feature back, and I think you're over-estimating TP vs Gibbs in the passing game...

Gibbs might even be better than Bijan, because he's a more complete back, although Bijan is obviously the safe pick, and compliments Pollard rather well. But so would Gibbs, Abinikanda, Evans, Brown, McBride, maybe even McIntosh, Johnson.

Gibbs is a great back. But IMO, you get your WR, so you have that handled when Cooks departs. We thought we didn't need Lamb when he came along, but it turns out we did.

You can also get out from under Gallup, even though he's my favorite player. Have to cut bait.

Not crapping on picking Gibbs. I would be happy if they went with Gibbs for the fact he's a good player.

I'll never have anything against that.

 

[cnuball21]

If he's a feature back, and I think you're over-estimating TP vs Gibbs in the passing game...

Pretty big if when we’re talking about taking a 199 pound RB who’s never rushed for 1K+ yards in the 1st round and giving him more snaps than someone who was arguably a top 5 RB in football last year.

 

[Mr_437]

It's Gibbs for me because he can contribute in the run and pass. Gibbs will be a nightmare for LBs because his cuts on his routes are sharp.

Side note: That diagram with the RB receptions is a good post...Eric Gray is looking like a solid RB the more I watch him. I like his jukes n hands, a little slower than I prefer but he makes up for in elusiveness.

 

[xwalker]

If he's a feature back, and I think you're over-estimating TP vs Gibbs in the passing game...

Gibbs might even be better than Bijan, because he's a more complete back, although Bijan is obviously the safe pick, and compliments Pollard rather well. But so would Gibbs, Abinikanda, Evans, Brown, McBride, maybe even McIntosh, Johnson.

Gibbs is a great back. But IMO, you get your WR, so you have that handled when Cooks departs. We thought we didn't need Lamb when he came along, but it turns out we did.

You can also get out from under Gallup, even though he's my favorite player. Have to cut bait.

Not crapping on picking Gibbs. I would be happy if they went with Gibbs for the fact he's a good player.

I'll never have anything against that.

College Stats
Player: Catches / Yards
Pollard: 104 / 1292
Gibbs: 103 / 1212

 

[Pass2Run]

Look closer. He's right....Gibbs has a WR aspect to his game. So, yeah, you could have Gibbs and Pollard in at the same time. lol

 

[America's Cowboy]

Yeah, his receiving ability is why I think there's a chance, he has a better career than Robinson. I mean, he would be a good fit. Not sure what the Cowboys would do there, but I'd trust them if they went for that.

Is he better than Felix Jones?

I think likely if he can stay healthy in the NFL. We need guys who can get open in the passing game, and he would be a nice security blanket. It's the one part of his game that is stronger than Bijan's.

Look at his run at 4:47... Wow.

Gibbs has some Marshall Faulk in him for sure...And I see the receiving ability, to where you could actually line him out wide, likely in the slot, or motioning out from the backfield, or around, etc.

He's a nice piece to move around on the offense.

But you know the Cowboys . . . can he block?

Agreed on Jahmyr Gibbs. Disagree what you said about Bijan Robinson. Look at their film and stats (both run and pass).

Jahmyr Gibbs

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4429795/jahmyr-gibbs



Bijan Robinson

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430807/bijan-robinson



Bijan Robinson is a beast who can do it all both with the run and pass. Jahmyr Gibbs is just as good. These 2 are the closest to all around RBs. I would take Bijan Robinson first though because of his bigger size (3 down RB), but Jahmyr Gibbs is not that much smaller. He has the muscle and girth to withstand being used full time.

If Robinson is long gone by the time the Cowboys draft at #26, I would not mind at all if they used the pick on Gibbs.

 

[Brooksey]

Flowers in round one, I’m happy.
Gibbs in round 2-3, I’m happy.
Gibbs in round 1 would be a colossal F-up!

He's a late one early two... so not really

 

[Pass2Run]

College Stats
Player: Catches / Yards
Pollard: 104 / 1292
Gibbs: 103 / 1212

Fair enough.. I thought I had read that Pollard had 400ish yard in his Sr., Jr. years, so that's likely career.

Still, it's not so much the stats as Gibbs ability. I'm not saying Pollard couldn't be a WR in the NFL, but I think Gibbs can be better in the WR game as part of his overall game.

Like, if he can be the RB and play the slot, that's great.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I wouldn't mind paying one back, while another is on his rookie deal. It's always good to have a duo.

I'm probably reaching for a WR this draft. lol. But I can see them going with Gibbs, too.

This would be my guy, personally. I'm looking for he or Flowers.. and if not, Robinson or Gibbs....I'd draft Johnston in the 1st. Duggan in the 5th, 6th...

Johnston is going to be good in the NFL..

I wouldn't take Johnston for the reasons Steve Smith noticed about him...

 

[Pass2Run]

Agreed on Jahmyr Gibbs. Disagree what you said about Bijan Robinson. Look at their film and stats (both run and pass).

Jahmyr Gibbs

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4429795/jahmyr-gibbs



Bijan Robinson

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430807/bijan-robinson



Bijan Robinson is a beast who can do it all both with the run and pass. Jahmyr Gibbs is just as good. These 2 are the closest to all around RBs. I would take Bijan Robinson first though because of his bigger size (3 down RB), but Jahmyr Gibbs is not that much smaller. He has the muscle and girth to withstand being used full time.

If Robinson is long gone by the time the Cowboys draft at #26, I would not mind at all if they used the pick on Gibbs.

I know, but part of Bijan's game in the passing game in college is that he's big and strong... like Micah.. he's just a big guy, that runs super fast, and strong.

In the NFL, that may not work as well. I think Gibbs as a pass receiving aspect to his game, even if it's just on screens, but I think he's more dynamic than that...

Gibbs will be better than Robinson in pass-catching in the NFL, imo.

 

[Pass2Run]

I wouldn't take Johnston for the reasons Steve Smith noticed about him...

Smith is a hater. Look at all the highlights for Johnston. That kind of player will make in the NFL.

IMO, top 5 WRs, in order.

Johnston
Flowers
Hyatt
JSN
Addison

 

[America's Cowboy]

I know, but part of Bijan's game in the passing game in college is that he's big and strong... like Micah.. he's just a big guy, that runs super fast, and strong.

In the NFL, that may not work as well. I think Gibbs as a pass receiving aspect to his game, even if it's just on screens, but I think he's more dynamic than that...

Gibbs will be better than Robinson in pass-catching in the NFL, imo.

Sorry. Totally disagree. Look at the film. Bijan Robinson is very dynamic, plus he has excellent cutting ability, quick feet and wastes no time cutting through traffic. Very athletic as well. Once he gets equal to you, he simply runs by you. With his size, strength, speed and quickness, it's no wonder he's listed by everyone as a top 10 overall pick and the #1 RB coming out of this draft.

 

[Champboy1]

Gibbs is not a running back but a OFFENSIVE WEAPON. If you use him correctly he would run the ball 10 to 12 times a game and gain around 55-60 yards a game and throwing it too him 6 times a game he would gain 50-55 yards a game. Gibbs can gain over 100 yards a gain for the Cowboys because of his running and catching the ball. In the SEC, he was explosive. I would love to draft him but we need a Guard.

 

[Pass2Run]

Cool. And he caught 44 balls total. How many were from the slot?

TP was a freaking WR in college and we barely throw him the ball. You think Gibbs is going to come in here and be better value than a legit 1st round WR prospect like Flowers ? He’s a good pass catching complimentary back.

It’s a hard, firm heck no.

I wouldn't be so against it. But I'd go with the WR myself, too.

By the way, Hyatt is still speeding up when he does his 40, after the 40 mark is when his gear kicks in...

I don't know.. If they are in win mode, RB probably makes more sense since we have three legit starters now at WR.

And only 1 legit RB. Plus, you can look at it like RB is more important, if we're going to run the ball and protect Dak and all that. If you are drafting for the future, WR likely makes more sense. I say just draft the better player.

Let the chips fall where they may. I trust they will bring us some good players this draft. They've done it before.

 

[xwalker]

Fair enough.. I thought I had read that Pollard had 400ish yard in his Sr., Jr. years, so that's likely career.

Still, it's not so much the stats as Gibbs ability. I'm not saying Pollard couldn't be a WR in the NFL, but I think Gibbs can be better in the WR game as part of his overall game.

Like, if he can be the RB and play the slot, that's great.

I think Gibbs a is better receiver than Pollard. Hands are more consistent (clutch).

 

[Pass2Run]

Sorry. Totally disagree. Look at the film. Bijan Robinson is very dynamic, plus he has excellent cutting ability, quick feet and wastes no time cutting through traffic. Very athletic as well. Once he gets equal to you, he simply runs by you. With his size, strength, speed and quickness, it's no wonder he's listed by everyone as a top 10 overall pick and the #1 RB coming out of this draft.

I understand this is most people's opinion. I just disagree.

It'll depend on which team they go to. If Gibbs were to land in say, San Fran, I'd say he's likely to have a better career right now.

Whatever, though. You maybe right. Everyone thinks Bijan will be so much better than Gibbs. I'm not so sure. Gibbs has that gear...

 

[Pass2Run]

I think Gibbs a is better receiver than Pollard. Hands are more consistent (clutch).

If we're comparing college tapes, from what I remember seeing, it just seems like Gibbs is working more to get open, like his head is in the game and he's thinking about what the purpose of the play is and staying focused as it unfolds.

Pollard is more of a make a cut, then go make a play guy. Just what I see. They're both good.

Pollard is a stud, obviously, or has been.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm not saying that Gibbs would be a better WR than Flowers.
- My question is would he be a better draft value than Flowers due to his WR-ish receiving ability + RB ability.

Jahmyr Gibbs
From Brugler:
Pacing and burst as a route runner make him a tough one-on-one cover.
Lined as a WR (not in the backfield) on 26.4 percent of his passing snaps in 2022.
Plucks away from his body with reliable hands (one drop on 52 targets in 2022).



Receiving Stats Flowers/Gibbs:

Player​	Years​	Rec/Year​	Yards/Year​	Total Rec​	Total Rec Yards​
Zay Flowers​	4​	50.0​	764.0​	200​	3056​
Jahmyr Gibbs​	3​	34.7​	405.7​	104​	1217​

RB Receiving Stats (sorted by yards):

Rank​	Player​	REC​	YDS​	AVG​	TD​
2​	Jahmyr Gibbs​	104​	1217​	11.7​	8​
11​	Eric Gray​	99​	827​	8.4​	5​
1​	Bijan Robinson​	60​	805​	13.4​	8​
3​	Zach Charbonnet​	75​	589​	7.9​	0​
5​	Tyjae Spears​	48​	564​	11.8​	3​
4​	Devon Achane​	65​	554​	8.5​	5​
12​	Chase Brown​	58​	521​	9​	3​
6​	Tank Bigsby​	62​	448​	7.2​	0​
7​	Roschon Johnson​	56​	420​	7.5​	3​
9​	Israel Abanikanda​	38​	354​	9.3​	3​
10​	Zach Evans​	30​	325​	10.8​	2​
8​	Kendre Miller​	29​	229​	7.9​	1​

​	Jahmyr Gibbs​	Zay Flowers​
Height​	5091​	5092​
Weight​	199​	182​
Hand​	09 1/4​	09 1/4​
Arm​	30 1/2​	29 1/4​
Wingspan​	74 1/8​	72 1/4​
40 Yard Dash (ET)​	4.36​	4.42​
10 Yard (ET)​	1.51​	1.49​
Vertical Jump​	33 1/2​	35 1/2​

Both are poor draft value

 

[CowboyRoy]

I've cooled off on Gibbs, but I could be talked into it, if I knew the person knew he would be so much better than Evans, Abinikanda, McBride, etc.

Personally, my #1 first round target would be Quinten Johnston. I think the league, and media, is sleeping on him lately, especially if he were the #3 and came in here with Cooks, Lamb, and Johnston.. It would be sick.

Then again, we probably need a TE more, or maybe we don't.. maybe we roll with our guys, and grab a TE like Tucker Kraft later on.. I think if you spend a 2 on a TE, you have to hit on him. But I have no doubt they've got some nice TE talent in round 2-3.

No way. 2nd or 3rd round talent in a good war draft.