Jahmyr Gibbs at WR vs Zay Flowers

[CowboyRoy]

If he's a feature back, and I think you're over-estimating TP vs Gibbs in the passing game...

Gibbs might even be better than Bijan, because he's a more complete back, although Bijan is obviously the safe pick, and compliments Pollard rather well. But so would Gibbs, Abinikanda, Evans, Brown, McBride, maybe even McIntosh, Johnson.

Gibbs is a great back. But IMO, you get your WR, so you have that handled when Cooks departs. We thought we didn't need Lamb when he came along, but it turns out we did.

You can also get out from under Gallup, even though he's my favorite player. Have to cut bait.

Not crapping on picking Gibbs. I would be happy if they went with Gibbs for the fact he's a good player.

I'll never have anything against that.

Gibbs is no way a complete back. He’s a Tony pollard type without the toughness up the middle.

 

[Pass2Run]

By the way, if this was a Bill Parcells team, Turpin wouldn't have a role here, and Pollard would return kicks, someone else would return punts...

Here's my boy, Pollard. He would be Adrian Peterson-like, if he played for San Fran. He's best suited for a WCO.

I would say the same thing for Gibbs.

 

[Spottswoode]

We have a RB now who cut his teeth as a WR and we have never maximized his versatility. If we had someone like Shanahan, I’d say go for it but I’m not so sure with McCarthy. If he is, then we should see it this year with Pollard.

 

[McKDaddy]

Beyond all the stats, something about Gibbs just "feels" right to me. If you could work a trade back and get him as part of your package it would seem to be a strong start.

 

[Pass2Run]

Beyond all the stats, something about Gibbs just "feels" right to me. If you could work a trade back and get him as part of your package it would seem to be a strong start.

I was thinking that earlier.

You can come away with 3-4 starters if you play your cards right.

 

[AsthmaField]

Beyond all the stats, something about Gibbs just "feels" right to me. If you could work a trade back and get him as part of your package it would seem to be a strong start.

I wouldn’t mind Dallas trading up from their second round pick to earlier in the second and picking up Gibbs. A couple of years ago they almost moved up from late in the 2nd to the top of the round to take CB Tyson Campbell. It was almost done and Dallas decided it was just a little too much. Instead, they stayed put and drafted Kelvin Joseph, which looks like a terrible decision.

So, yeah, they have tried to move to the top of the 2nd recently, so they probably could do that.

They’d likely have to lose their 3rd round pick, but if you came out of the first two rounds with something like:

1st Kincaid
2nd Gibbs

Or

1st Flowers
2nd Gibbs

Or

1st Forbes
2nd Gibbs.

Or

1st McDonald
2nd Gibbs

I’d be fine with any of those.

Having Kincaid to go with Lamb, Cooks, and a healthy Gallup with Gibbs and Pollard sharing the load at RB would do a whole lot for that offense.

That is a far cry from the offense that just couldn’t move the ball against San Francisco in last year’s playoffs. That was Lamb, with a still healing Gallup, Shultz and a decrepit Elliott at RB. Once Pollard went down, that talented SF defense had no problem defending the Dallas offense. Just bracket Lamb, get a good coverage LB on Shultz, and you stopped Dallas, because nobody else on that offense was going to beat you. No way in Hell Elliott was going to make you pay for sending everybody back in coverage.

Anyway… I went off on a tangent.

Yes, Gibbs/Pollard and Kincaid, along with Cooks and a healthy Gallup would be dangerous. It would be ideal for the play action which will (finally!) be part of the new offense.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I'm not saying that Gibbs would be a better WR than Flowers.
- My question is would he be a better draft value than Flowers due to his WR-ish receiving ability + RB ability.

Jahmyr Gibbs
From Brugler:
Pacing and burst as a route runner make him a tough one-on-one cover.
Lined as a WR (not in the backfield) on 26.4 percent of his passing snaps in 2022.
Plucks away from his body with reliable hands (one drop on 52 targets in 2022).



Receiving Stats Flowers/Gibbs:

Player​	Years​	Rec/Year​	Yards/Year​	Total Rec​	Total Rec Yards​
Zay Flowers​	4​	50.0​	764.0​	200​	3056​
Jahmyr Gibbs​	3​	34.7​	405.7​	104​	1217​

RB Receiving Stats (sorted by yards):

Rank​	Player​	REC​	YDS​	AVG​	TD​
2​	Jahmyr Gibbs​	104​	1217​	11.7​	8​
11​	Eric Gray​	99​	827​	8.4​	5​
1​	Bijan Robinson​	60​	805​	13.4​	8​
3​	Zach Charbonnet​	75​	589​	7.9​	0​
5​	Tyjae Spears​	48​	564​	11.8​	3​
4​	Devon Achane​	65​	554​	8.5​	5​
12​	Chase Brown​	58​	521​	9​	3​
6​	Tank Bigsby​	62​	448​	7.2​	0​
7​	Roschon Johnson​	56​	420​	7.5​	3​
9​	Israel Abanikanda​	38​	354​	9.3​	3​
10​	Zach Evans​	30​	325​	10.8​	2​
8​	Kendre Miller​	29​	229​	7.9​	1​

​	Jahmyr Gibbs​	Zay Flowers​
Height​	5091​	5092​
Weight​	199​	182​
Hand​	09 1/4​	09 1/4​
Arm​	30 1/2​	29 1/4​
Wingspan​	74 1/8​	72 1/4​
40 Yard Dash (ET)​	4.36​	4.42​
10 Yard (ET)​	1.51​	1.49​
Vertical Jump​	33 1/2​	35 1/2​

Better or as good as Flowers? No. But Flowers isn't gonna give 800/900 rushing yards either. I think Gibbs is a very unique prospect, you could probably convert him to WR and have him be a 80, 1100 yard guy in a year if you really wanted too

 

[CATCH17]

If Gibbs turns out anything close to Jamaal Charles then everyone screwed up letting him fall so far in the draft.

 

[doomsday9084]

1. A big part of the reason why Kellen Moore was fired was because of the inability to use the RB's in the pass game. This has been gone over in multiple threads. Projecting the future based on how RB's were used under Kellen is a mistake.

2. I'll take the 4.3 guy who touches the ball 16 times per game over the 4.3 guy who touches it 4 times per game, thank you very much.

 

[darthseinfeld]

We have a RB now who cut his teeth as a WR and we have never maximized his versatility. If we had someone like Shanahan, I’d say go for it but I’m not so sure with McCarthy. If he is, then we should see it this year with Pollard.

Pollard isnt all that suited for it though. Keep in mind he was a #3 HB in college, with two guy ahead of him that went day 2 in 2019. Playing him in the slot was a way for them to get a guy that is a HB1 on 90% of college teams more run

 

[cnuball21]

I wouldn't be so against it. But I'd go with the WR myself, too.

By the way, Hyatt is still speeding up when he does his 40, after the 40 mark is when his gear kicks in...

I don't know.. If they are in win mode, RB probably makes more sense since we have three legit starters now at WR.

And only 1 legit RB. Plus, you can look at it like RB is more important, if we're going to run the ball and protect Dak and all that. If you are drafting for the future, WR likely makes more sense. I say just draft the better player.

Let the chips fall where they may. I trust they will bring us some good players this draft. They've done it before.

Im all for drafting a RB just don’t blow the pick in the 1st.

The reality is Gibbs is an explosive complimentary back. He’s 199 pounds and has never run for 1000 yards in college. If Bijan fails to 26, and he won’t, I wouldn’t like the value of RB in the 1st but at least we’re drafting a bell cow and don’t have to pay Pollard. Drafting a complimentary back at 26 is worse than drafting a starting RB at 26.

And as another poster said our scheme / QB don’t seem to throw to the RB a lot.

 

[xwalker]

Pollard isnt all that suited for it though. Keep in mind he was a #3 HB in college, with two guy ahead of him that went day 2 in 2019. Playing him in the slot was a way for them to get a guy that is a HB1 on 90% of college teams more run

It does not change your point, but I think just Henderson & Pollard in 2019.

Pollard was listed as WR in college.

Memphis really mixed it up with those RB/WR players including Pollard as a wildcat QB at times.

Henderson was a terrific RB in college. I've been surprised by his limited production in the NFL.

Gibson was the power back(6-0, 228).

Darrell Henderson, 2019 R3
Tony Pollard, 2019 R4
Antonio Gibson, 2020 R3
Patrick Taylor, 2020 UDFA
Kenneth Gainwell, 2021 R5

 

[CowboyoWales]

Better or as good as Flowers? No. But Flowers isn't gonna give 800/900 rushing yards either. I think Gibbs is a very unique prospect, you could probably convert him to WR and have him be a 80, 1100 yard guy in a year if you really wanted too

Isnt the question not necessarily which is better, but which fits bests the scheme, varies the Offense and how their presence effects defensive formations?

 

[darthseinfeld]

Isnt the question not necessarily which is better, but which fits bests the scheme, varies the Offense and how their presence effects defensive formations?

If you draft Gibbs, you need to do so with the intention of using him extensively in the passing game. Similar to how NO uses Kamara. If not its a waste

 

[McKDaddy]

If you draft Gibbs, you need to do so with the intention of using him extensively in the passing game. Similar to how NO uses Kamara. If not its a waste

No doubt we have to do a better job of using talent than we have in recent memory.

Sure seems like Gibbs & TP could easily account for a significant chunk of yardage each game if used correctly while also stressing defenses making it easier for our other weapons.

 

[CowboyoWales]

If you draft Gibbs, you need to do so with the intention of using him extensively in the passing game. Similar to how NO uses Kamara. If not its a waste

It means we can line him up as slot or backfield, it also provides the option of the 21 Personnel.

Also prevents the 9ers scenario, where our running game throws in the flag without Tony.

Not saying it has to be Gibbs, but there appears there's a fair few fans blinded by positional value.

 

[Spottswoode]

Pollard isnt all that suited for it though. Keep in mind he was a #3 HB in college, with two guy ahead of him that went day 2 in 2019. Playing him in the slot was a way for them to get a guy that is a HB1 on 90% of college teams more run

Pollard was a WR in high school with 1200 receiving yards & 20 TD’s his senior year. Memphis didn’t recruit him to be a RB. He was a 2-star recruit with a grand total of 2 college offers. Way more than 90% of college teams didn’t even want him.

 

[InPhiltraitor]

I would take Gibbs over any receiver coming out this year with the exception of JSN. I state that based in large part due to the number of touches you could get him each game.

With a receiver like Flowers, I think 4-6 catches a game his first season could be deemed as being pretty successful. With Gibbs, you can script 8-10 touches a game with the probability of a couple of those touches pitting him 1 on 1 with a LB. I like Gibbs’ odds as a playmaker in those scenarios.

With his added ability to spell Pollard for extended periods of time...I'm in - better value.

 

[exciter]

I’m not gonna lie… I really want Gibbs in Dallas. I think him and Pollard would cause all kind of problems for defenses. And yeah, I think Gibbs could do whatever you ask him to do catching the ball.

Because of all Gibbs can do and how smooth he is, I’d rather have him than Flowers, yes.

That’s not to say that I don’t like Flowers. I do.

Yup! We’ve been bumped out of the playoffs by San Fran 2 years in a row because we couldn’t bust them out of their cover 2 bread and butter. He either forces teams to move up a safety opening up the WRs intermediate routes or take their chances with the mismatch of covering him with a LB. Frankly, I don’t see a player who has a reasonable chance of being there being able to have a more immediate impact for this season!

 

[beware_d-ware]

Yup! We’ve been bumped out of the playoffs by San Fran 2 years in a row because we couldn’t bust them out of their cover 2 bread and butter. He either forces teams to move up a safety opening up the WRs intermediate routes or take their chances with the mismatch of covering him with a LB. Frankly, I don’t see a player who has a reasonable chance of being there being able to have a more immediate impact for this season!

Gibbs definitely could change the game that way. I would just like to know for sure that we'll use him that way. Not just stuff him in the Pollard role where he gets 10 carries and 2 catches per week.