Jeff Ireland...

[Alexander]

3 years of draft picks. Really the only good year (by this thread's standards) was 2005. Many of those players don't even play for New England anymore.

Scott Pioli ain't ****, I guess.

Exactly. Far too much weight is given to a simple analysis and saying this draft is terrible and so on. I think only a few players out of the 2007 Patriot draft even made their team.

There is more to being a solid personnel executive than just drafts and the sheer number of players obtained.

Making trades at the right time in the draft is key, so is timeliness of selections and value. The "great" drafts that Jimmy Johnson and Gil Brandt had wouldn't be anything were it not for the trades, machinations and outright theft of other team's draft choices. Go back and look at the drafts of the 1970s. Most were one/two player drafts out of as many as twenty choices. The Johnson drafts weren't without their busts either. Some of Jerry Jones' worst drafts actually had players that panned out elsewhere, but they were just horrible fits here. Being able to draft talent that can play for your team is what is important. That is what Belichick and Pioli do so well. They know what player types they want and go about finding them. They have a system and a unified eye for talent. That is how Coach Parcells and Ireland were able to assist Jones in drafting. There was a vision.

The pro personnel aspect is also very underrated when judging an executive's prowess. The current Patriots as much to free agency and trades (Vrabel, Harrison, Seau, Moss) than they do drafts.

We will miss Ireland for the overall organizational role he played. I know Jerry Jones called it "information gathering", but it was useful. I also find the attempts to minimize his role laughable. Until we have a complete executive in his role doing the "information gathering" we have been weakened. I don't care how Ciskowski supposedly told Jeff about which players. That's what a scout does. An executive takes that information and makes the right decisions. That is what we will miss with Ireland. Now we just have Jerry Jones with one less brain to pick.

 

[Paniolo22]

Jerry has repeatedly said Ireland mostly oversaw the acquisition of Pro personnel. The Draft has been the domain of Tom Ciskowski, et al.

I'll tell you one thing that I definitely think about the whole Maimi exodus. I think Bill Parcells is doing it to compete directly against Jerry. Perhaps they argued over personnel more than we all know. Jerry had the final say. Well, now it appears Parcells has the final say in Miami.

The competition may be friendly, but I have a feeling it's also going to be fierce at times.

I'm not going to devalue Ireland in any way, but if he mainly oversaw the Pro Personnel, that would mean he was in charge of our FA aquisitions. Kosier, Ayodele, Hamlin, Ogelsby (sp?), Fergy, Henry, and others. We haven't been as successflu in finding diamonds in FA as we have in the draft.

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't think the point is that Ireland is a bum, but that these results aren't exactly irreplaceable.

Exactly. Ireland appears as a genius through the lens of what preceded him. I think he was solid but by no means an irreplaceable talent.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Finding a starting right tackle off the NFL scrap heap for pennies is a major find. Finding a Pro Bowl safety for a 1 year, 3.5 million dollar contract is quite a find. Kosier has been an outright steal when you compare what other starting free agent non Pro Bowl guards have made on the market (Derrick Dockery got an $18 million dollar signing bonus). Ayodele has been a bargain compared to what starting NFL average linebackers make on the market. Per dollar spent, I don't think you'll find a team that has gotten more bang for their buck out of their free agents in the last three years.

I don't know what you're expecting. Great players typically don't see free agency, they get tagged. The best you can hope for is to either not overspend too badly for historically average players or see something in someone that their former team didn't ... the Cowboys have had a good track record of doing both the past three years.

Ireland may or may not be irreplacable, but it will be hard to know if Jerry doesn't try to replace him. All I know is that we found more Day 2 pick and undrafted free agent contributors in one year than we had in 9 years combined. I guess it's all just a magical coinkydink. A lot of people seem to have some magic faith in Ciskowski. If Ciskowski wasn't at least part of the problem 1995-2003, he sure as heck wasn't part of the solution. He may or may not be a great scout, but raw scouting is the least of the important job duties that come with Ireland's former job.

 

[wileedog]

Finding a starting right tackle off the NFL scrap heap for pennis is a major find. Finding a Pro Bowl safety for a 1 year, 3.5 million dollar contract is quite a find. Kosier is one of the biggest steals in NFL free agency of the past couple of years when you consider that non Pro Bowl guards like Derrick Dockery get $18 million dollar signing bonuses. Ayodele has been a bargain compared to what starting NFL average linebackers make on the market. Per dollar spent, I don't think you'll find a team that has gotten more bang for their buck out of their free agents in the last three years.

Agreed, I have been far more impressed with our FA performance than even our draft the past several years.

Even this year we were laughed at for throwing mega buck at Leonard Davis. That worked out pretty good. Hamlin was a great pick up too.

If Ireland was in charge of Pro personell acquisition then it is hard to say that his loss won't hurt, especially when we are replacing him with... nobody.

 

[Paniolo22]

Agreed, I have been far more impressed with our FA performance than even our draft the past several years.

Even this year we were laughed at for throwing mega buck at Leonard Davis. That worked out pretty good. Hamlin was a great pick up too.

If Ireland was in charge of Pro personell acquisition then it is hard to say that his loss won't hurt, especially when we are replacing him with... nobody.

Ireland finds these guys, but JJ pay them.

 

[wileedog]

Ireland finds these guys, but JJ pay them.

Which is harder to do?

 

[Paniolo22]

Which is harder to do?

I think we all knew that Davis would be a huge upgrade on the line if he played guard, and Hamlin was arguably one of the best FA S out there last year when he signed. The point is, it's not hard to target good FA players, they have played against the best players in the league and have done well. To me, he needs to find more Colombo's in the world to be great at that position. Kosier turned out ok, but at the time, his contract was ridiculous, in fact, his contract could be one that started the crazy contracts that guards got.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Hamlin was forced to sign a 1 year, 3.5 million dollar contract ... but everyone knew he was a premiere safety

Yeah, how much did the Seahawks pay Deon Grant to upgrade over Hamlin again? 6 years, 30 million, 11+ million signing bonus?

 

[Paniolo22]

Hamlin was forced to sign a 1 year, 3.5 million dollar contract ... but everyone knew he was a premiere player.

The gamble was that he played more like a SS than a FS. I did say that he was one of the best remaining safeties left when he signed. Skull fracture may have something to do with the limited interest.

 

[Woods]

The gamble was that he played more like a SS than a FS. I did say that he was one of the best remaining safeties left when he signed. Skull fracture may have something to do with the limited interest.

I think his skull fracture definitely had something to do with the limited interest . . . .

 

[Paniolo22]

I think his skull fracture definitely had something to do with the limited interest . . . .

Besides, Hamlin's base salary puts him right outside the top ten in money makers. On the other hand, his bonus is probably the worst in the league, but that will change shortly.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Those drafts helped give us a thirteen and three team. Simple really.

 

[STSINAZ]

Seems like there were alot of reach picks...good thing we had a good year when ware came out or we wouldnt have made it to 13-3...but spears, carp, rogers...peterman....julius...bad picks...wasted ones at that...should have done better...i cant believe that spears is a bust!

 

[TheHerd]

Yeah, and only 1 player remains on their team from the 2007 draft. Sooner, or later, not replenishing their team with rooks is going to come back to haunt them. Unfortunately, it won't be until after they've won a few more SBs.

Are you guys nuts? I don't want to be a Pats apologist, buy jeez:

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Player Position
1 Laurence Maroney - stud RB
4 Stephen Gostkowski - stud K

2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Player Position
1 Logan Mankins - stud OL
3 Ellis Hobbs - good CB
3 Nick Kaczur - stud OL

2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Player Position
1 Vince Wilfork - stud NT
1 Benjamin Watson - stud TE

All these players contributed significantly in their recent playoff wins. That's 7 solid big game contributors drafted in three years. And we have how many again? I'd take Pioli in a second.