Jerametrius Butler Released by Rams... signed by Skins

dallasfaniac

Active Member
Messages
4,198
Reaction score
1
I think it was a good move by the Commanders but I have reservations like Silverbear. Something is fishy about signing at vet minimum days after hitting the market when there is the possibility that he would be a hot commodity if a team experienced injury in camp.

The fact that an injury riddled player signing at vet minimum would excite a team like the Commanders really speaks volumes to the state of their franchise. They have much bigger issues along the defensive line and there are players to be had. As much as they hate picks, they might as well send a first day pick to Jacksonville for Bobby McCray. He could play linebacker and rush on passing downs.

What firehawk needs to realize is when we are talking about bringing in Butler, it is truly to fight for 4th-5th CB slot. Realistically, Butler would possibly be vying for 2nd-5th on the Commanders.
 

silverbear

Semi-Official Loose Cannon
Messages
24,195
Reaction score
25
firehawk350;1521813 said:
Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well. His entire defense is based on that.

If that's true, why did the Skins EVER throw all that money at Adam Archuleta?? Everybody knew he's a linebacker playing safety...

This suggests your management sucks when it comes to evaluating personnel... :D

Though, saying that Marcus Spears or Canty will be any better in the 1-gap is reaching a bit.

Not when that's basically the way they were used in college, when they had success...
 

silverbear

Semi-Official Loose Cannon
Messages
24,195
Reaction score
25
firehawk350;1521818 said:
Okay, if he was so great, why did he not get signed until April I believe?

Do get your facts straight (unless you really ARE a masochist, and enjoy being made to look like a fool), he signed with the Cowboys on March 23rd... that was all of 3 weeks after free agency started...
 

Jarv

Loud pipes saves lives.
Messages
13,792
Reaction score
8,662
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
ThreeSportStar80;1520074 said:

As a result of the injuries, the former Kansas State standout has appeared in only six games over the past two seasons. The Rams' acquisitions of other cornerbacks through free agency and the draft knocked him well down the depth chart.


Wade: Hey Tnew, your from K-State. What do you think of this guy ?

Tnew: He sucks....
 

zeromaster

New Member
Messages
2,575
Reaction score
0
Bob Sacamano;1521765 said:
firehawk, are you a pain-freak or something? please, explain to me what makes you keep coming on here, opening your mouth?
Happy hour? :p:
 

Vintage

The Cult of Jib
Messages
16,714
Reaction score
4,888
The link at ExtremeSkins, someone reported he had signed for around 550K.

If you were wondering where that number came from, silverbear.
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,489
Reaction score
44,544
firehawk350;1521813 said:
Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well.

And, I suppose that Gregg Williams has changed things up so much that he felt compelled to use the 6th pick in the draft to get a cover safety to go in his new scheme? He's really changing things up. [/sarcasm]

I mean, if he changed things that much, then why is this year's defense still predicated on having two safeties that can cover well?

From what I've been reading over at ExtremeSkins Williams has, in the past, used the LB's and DB's to get pressure on the passer. That is exactly why the Commander fans have been saying that getting Laron Landry and London Fletcher-Baker will help the pass rush. :rolleyes:

Anyway, if that's what he's done in the past, and everyone in Commander land seems to think that their pressure will again come from the LB's and DB's... then what part of the scheme is changed? That, along with still needing two safeties who can cover wouldn't support your view that the scheme is changing.

Another thing is that when you talk about defensive scheme, most people start with saying a 3-4 or 4-3. That is the defensive line players and linebackers that are used to determine scheme. Nowhere really do you see anyone say their scheme is determined by their secondary... it is determined by their front 7.

So, in saying that you are changing schemes, are you simply saying that you are going to have a lot less cover two in your defense? If so, that is certainly a change in coverage... but I doubt anyone would really say that you're changing your defensive scheme. Changing defensive philosophy? Yes, as far as coverages go. Changing scheme? I don't think so, because nothing really will be different with your front 7.

You can run cover 2 out of a 3-4 or a 4-3. You can play man coverage out of a 3-4 or a 4-3. You can run a cover 3 out of a 3-4 or a 4-3. However, those teams still stay with their same defensive scheme... they just switch up the coverages. That sounds like what Washington is doing, to me.

I do realize that changing the coverage might change some things that your front 7 does... but that certainly wouldn't be a scheme change, I don't think... and considering Washington has done nothing at DL this offseason, I'd say you better hope Williams continues to get pressure from his LB's and DB's.

And you say that is a scheme change and we are still running the same thing in Dallas? Please.

With Dallas, they are changing the entire way the front 7 plays. The defensive line responibilities will change completely, for the most part. Last year, all three DL were playing two gap. They had to hold up the blocker, read the play, and then flow to the ball. It was a much more man-on-man philosophy than anything else. Just beat the guy in front of you.

This year, the DL will be, for the most part, choosing a gap and shooting through it at the snap of the ball. There will be a whole lot more line stunts. They won't have to control the blocker at the snap, but will instead immediately shoot the gap looking for the ball. The entire DL will play completely differently than they did last year. Even the NT will play one gap in a lot of situations. They all will use their athletic ability/speed much more and their strength/size much less.

The LB's will have different responsibilities as well. The ILB's will take on a guard much less often and will drop in to coverage differently, as well as blitz much, much more. They will flow to the ball, IOW instead of taking on blockers most of the time.

The outside LB's will still rush the QB like they did last season, but they'll do it much more. You won't see Demarcus Ware in coverage nearly as much this year... he'll be going after the QB most of the time. Again, flow to the ball.

If a Wade Phillips defense is working well, I think you'll see some blockers with no one to block because the guy they thought would be there will be shooting through a gap somewhere else. In Parcells defense, you never saw a blocker not on a defender. There was no doubt about who would block who when Parcells defense was on the field. No surprises for the OL at all. That was the reason offenses liked playing against it. Phillips will move everyone around constantly.

All the LB's will run to the ball much more. That's why Wade Phillips has had them all lose about 10-15 pounds... because what they'll be doing is completely different that what they've been doing in the past.

Phillips will use a wide variety of zone blitzes as well, which Parcells/Zimmer hardly ever did. You'll see a whole lot more of DE's dropping back in a zone and an ILB coming after the QB... or a SS coming... or a FS coming.

In other words... while Dallas still is in a 3-4, the resposibilities will be completely different for all of the front 7 players. They will play a number of different coverages out of that at different times.

So, while Washington is still playing a 4-3 and Dallas is still playing a 3-4, I think you'd have to say the team that is changing it's scheme the most, would be the team that has it's entire front 7 playing differently. The team that is having it's players change body weight in an effort to better fit the new scheme. Or, to make it easy, just look at which players are saying things like, "This new scheme much better fits my skill set".

I know several different Cowboy players have said they like the way they're being used in this new scheme. Has any Washington players said anything like that? Honest question... I really don't know.

Anyway, to sum this up: The scheme usually depends on what the front 7 players do in order to tell what it is... i.e., 3-4 or 4-3. No matter what the DB's play (cover 2, man to man, etc.), the scheme is determined by where the LB's and DL line up and how they are used. So, to say that changing coverages is changing schemes, seems to me to be much less than truthful.
 

1fisher

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,777
Reaction score
120
Yeagermeister;1521393 said:
The 3-8 looks like what Joe Lee Dunn was trying to run at Memphis last year :laugh2:


Hey, take it easy on Joe Lee "I wear no socks" Dunn............:laugh2:
 

Yeagermeister

Well-Known Member
Messages
47,629
Reaction score
117
1fisher;1522370 said:
Hey, take it easy on Joe Lee "I wear no socks" Dunn............:laugh2:

What a defensive genius he is. A two man DL with players that weigh 270 soaking wet vs a SEC oline that averaged 320lbs :eek:

Tommy canning him was the best thing to happen all season for them.
 

1fisher

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,777
Reaction score
120
Yeagermeister;1522381 said:
What a defensive genius he is. A two man DL with players that weigh 270 soaking wet vs a SEC oline that averaged 320lbs :eek:

Tommy canning him was the best thing to happen all season for them.

That's the truth!:bow:
 

BouncingCheese

Stay out of my Bidness
Messages
1,704
Reaction score
0
silverbear;1522045 said:
If that's true, why did the Skins EVER throw all that money at Adam Archuleta?? Everybody knew he's a linebacker playing safety...

This suggests your management sucks when it comes to evaluating personnel... :D



Not when that's basically the way they were used in college, when they had success...

Greg Williams is also an ego maniac; they had a servicable FS in Ryan Clark and they let him go, even though his asking price was VERY reasonable.. Williams thinks he can turn **** into gold, and in Archuleta's case, a dime LB into an all-world safety.
 

silverbear

Semi-Official Loose Cannon
Messages
24,195
Reaction score
25
Vintage;1522242 said:
The link at ExtremeSkins, someone reported he had signed for around 550K.

If you were wondering where that number came from, silverbear.

Thanks, bud, I wasn't questioning your veracity... the Washington Post has reported it's actually for 595k, pretty close to what ES had... so keeping in mind the Rule of 51 that Adam is always reminding us about, he's probably not costing much more than an extra 300k against the Skins' salary cap...
 

silverbear

Semi-Official Loose Cannon
Messages
24,195
Reaction score
25
AsthmaField;1522355 said:
From what I've been reading over at ExtremeSkins Williams has, in the past, used the LB's and DB's to get pressure on the passer. That is exactly why the Commander fans have been saying that getting Laron Landry and London Fletcher-Baker will help the pass rush. :rolleyes:

Makes sense, LF-B has been SUCH a fierce pass rusher in his NFL career... I mean, the guy has averaged ove THREE sacks per 16 games played (barely) over his NFL career-- 144 games played, 27.5 sacks... his single best season was 2000, when he had 5.5 sacks...

As for Landry, he had all of 8 sacks in 52 games played at LSU, 2 in his last two seasons... yeah, that ol' sack total is gonna just go through the roof with those two deadly blitzers on board... it might go all the way up to maybe 25 sacks... ROTFLMAO...
 

silverbear

Semi-Official Loose Cannon
Messages
24,195
Reaction score
25
BouncingCheese;1522426 said:
Greg Williams is also an ego maniac; they had a servicable FS in Ryan Clark and they let him go, even though his asking price was VERY reasonable.. Williams thinks he can turn **** into gold, and in Archuleta's case, a dime LB into an all-world safety.

Letting Clark go was bone-headed, but are we sure Williams was behind that decision?? Other than that, I agree that Williams, and Skins fans, have a vastly exaggerated opinion of how good he is...
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,489
Reaction score
44,544
silverbear;1522993 said:
Makes sense, LF-B has been SUCH a fierce pass rusher in his NFL career... I mean, the guy has averaged ove THREE sacks per 16 games played (barely) over his NFL career-- 144 games played, 27.5 sacks... his single best season was 2000, when he had 5.5 sacks...

As for Landry, he had all of 8 sacks in 52 games played at LSU, 2 in his last two seasons... yeah, that ol' sack total is gonna just go through the roof with those two deadly blitzers on board... it might go all the way up to maybe 25 sacks... ROTFLMAO...

No, no, no Silverbear... you don't get it. London F-B will cover the TE, the back and the slot receiver by himself... thus freeing up Marcus Washington to Blitz the QB. That's how he'll help with the sacks. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, they do think that the influx of CB's and Fletcher will allow for more man coverage freeing up some LB's to blitz. That with a much better coverage SS like Landry, he won't need as much help in coverage and so will also help free up other players. Not to mention that the better overall coverage will make the QB hold the ball longer, thus creating more sack opportunities.

Having watched them some last year, I don't think it was the QB getting the ball out quickly that kept Washington's sack total below 20 for the season. IMO, it was a just awful DL that lacked in overall talent and instincts, that was simply unable to get to the QB. Throw in a couple of injuries on the DL and, at the end of the day, presto!... clean QB jerseys all around.

Their line is terrible and to read Art's tripe about how we don't know as much as the coaches and they clearly didn't think Washington needed DL help... so therefore, they didn't need DL help!

I suppose it never occurred to him that it could be that:

1. They didn't really have much money to spend in free agency on a DL and so no help came from that area.

2. Even if they did have more money, other teams had SO much cap space, that even then they couldn't have competed.

3. Even if they did have as much as everyone else... besides A. Thomas, there just wasn't much on the free agent market for the DL.

4. They tried like heck to trade back from that #6 spot in the first round but was unable to and so was stuck with that pick. Then, since they had the #6 pick, the only defender really worth that spot was Landry and, they didn't want to reach at 6 so they took the S.

5. Since they didn't have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounder this year, they really couldn't get a DL until the 5th round on... and by that time, a DL wouldn't be able to come in and help them anyway, so they just went best available athlete again.

That sequence of events eventually let to Washington coming out of this offseason with absolutely no help at DL... which is of course the one place they absolutely had to have help. :cool:

Oh no though... Art could see right through that and knew that Gibbs and Co. had decided they were loaded at DL. :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

Now most posters on ExtremeSkins are vomiting back up the same thing as Art was saying. "We didn't need DL because we get our pressure from the DB's and LB's." Of course they do! Just like any good 4-3 of the past... you don't need DL to be a dominant defense.

The funny thing is... you didn't read one post on ES anywhere before the draft saying that they got their pressure in Washington from the DB's and LB's. Not one. Now, it's the common theme there and the company line as to why they didn't acquire any DL help. Before the draft, they all wanted DE or DT and talked about how much they could help the team and what would happen next year when they again had a DL that is worth a crap.

It's truly comical.

One Commander fan postin on ES had this scenario that he had wanted to happen, and I'm really glad that it didn't fall this way. Something like trade back to 18 or so from #6, get an additional 2nd and 3rd round pick and then choose Spencer for DE. Then they could have gotten a solid DT or DB in the second and then a good DB or DT in the third. That would have been a brilliant move and helped that team out much more.

Lucky for us... Snyder and Gibbs are idiots when it comes to the draft. :laugh2:
 

silverbear

Semi-Official Loose Cannon
Messages
24,195
Reaction score
25
AsthmaField;1523016 said:
No, no, no Silverbear... you don't get it. London F-B will cover the TE, the back and the slot receiver by himself... thus freeing up Marcus Washington to Blitz the QB. That's how he'll help with the sacks.

Suddenly, it all becomes clear... what BRILLIANCE...

Seriously though, they do think that the influx of CB's and Fletcher will allow for more man coverage freeing up some LB's to blitz. That with a much better coverage SS like Landry, he won't need as much help in coverage and so will also help free up other players. Not to mention that the better overall coverage will make the QB hold the ball longer, thus creating more sack opportunities.

And while there is some element of truth to that, we need to remember that the Skins got all of 19 sacks last year... improving the coverage a little isn't gonna magically double that total... adding a dangerous pass rusher or two would have been a lot more effective, I think...

Their line is terrible and to read Art's tripe about how we don't know as much as the coaches and they clearly didn't think Washington needed DL help... so therefore, they didn't need DL help!

Art's a tool... he cares more about the access the Skins let him have than he does analyzing the team honestly... as a result, he's little better than a semi-official propagandist for the organization...

I am constantly amazed that extremeskins is so wildly popular among Skins fans, it is by far the worst website dedicated to the Skins out there... even if the Skins do throw them bones in the form of exclusive interviews and such, you still can't count on getting any decent football analysis from that board... those who try to provide such analysis generally find themselves banned pretty quick...

That sequence of events eventually let to Washington coming out of this offseason with absolutely no help at DL... which is of course the one place they absolutely had to have help. :cool:

Yup, Art woofs about how the Skins' brain trust (or is that brain rust?) is infallible, even when they fail to address the single most obvious, most glaring weakness on their roster...

Now most posters on ExtremeSkins are vomiting back up the same thing as Art was saying. "We didn't need DL because we get our pressure from the DB's and LB's." Of course they do! Just like any good 4-3 of the past... you don't need DL to be a dominant defense.

Here's an argument to lay on them-- for the last 4 years, the better their RUN defense has been, the better their sack totals have been:

2003-- 27th in run defense, 27th in sacks, with 27... lots of 27s there...

2004-- 2nd in run defense, 10th in sacks, with 40...

2005-- 13th in run defense, 21st in sacks, with 35...

2006-- 27th in run defense, 32nd in sacks, with 19...

If you think about it, this makes some sense; a good run defense causes opponents to throw on you more often, giving you more sack opportunities...

Now, what have the Skins done to improve that 27th ranked run defense this offseason?? Fletcher-Baker will help some, but the DL is still weak against the run, and will Rocky McIntosh, all 230 pounds of him, be an upgrade at LB?? If so, why didn't the Skins stick him in the lineup last season, when they couldn't stop anybody??

He can chase plays pretty well, but the scouting report on him coming out of college is that he's rather weak at the point of attack... and working from memory here, it seems to me that when the Skins got gashed by the running game, it was mostly between the tackles... in fact, most of the Skins' LBs last year were stronger at chasing down the outside runs than they were at stuffing plays up the middle...

I expect the Skins to be fairly easy to run against again this year, and if recent history is any indicator, that will again lead to rather anemic sack totals...
 

skinsngibbs4life

Active Member
Messages
1,383
Reaction score
0
AsthmaField;1521168 said:
Yep. As a Cowboy fan, I'm really glad that they didn't sign Hamlin and then pickup someone at #6 in the draft like Jamaall Anderson for the DL. I think that would have been much better for the Commanders. Luckily, they didn't think so.

oh please, you just would have thought up some other excuse if the Commanders did that.
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,489
Reaction score
44,544
skinsngibbs4life;1523322 said:
oh please, you just would have thought up some other excuse if the Commanders did that.


All smack aside... I think that would have been a much, much better move.

Get Hamlin, who by all accounts didn't play bad at all last year. He was in a secondary that fell apart, but his individual play wasn't that bad at all. He's a huge hitter who provides a physical presence and yet is fast enough to cover. Plus, he's very smart and can make all the secondary calls like he did in college and at Seattle. He's exactly the type of calming influence that Taylor needs next to him. IMO, he'll do as well as Landry... at least for this coming season if not more.

Then, get a guy in Jamaall Anderson, who, while he may not have been quite the highest rated player at #6 (He went at #9 didn't he?), would have been exactly what that DL needed. A strongside DE to go opposite Andre Carter who is very good against the run and yet very good as a pass rusher as well. I was a little concerned about the Skins getting him.

That way, your SS hole is filled very well and your strongside DE hole is filled very well.

Are you trying to say that the Skins defense would be better with Landry at SS and Daniels at DE? Better than Hamlin at SS and Anderson at DE?

I don't know about other Cowboy fans... but I'm much, much happier seeing Landry/Daniels than I would be seeing Hamlin/Anderson in a Commanders uniform.

Of course the truly scary thing would have been if the Skins would have signed Hamlin and then traded back from #6 to around 20 and picked up something like a second and a third. That would likely have ended up with something like: Put Hamlin at SS and then draft Anthony Spencer to play DE. Then in the second round taken the best DT available and then maybe gone DB in the third. That would have been a great, great move for Washington, but luckily for us it didn't turn out that way.

I'm sure Washington got some offers for that #6 pick but they weren't good enough for Snyder/Gibbs. However, they needed DL help so badly and had no other picks that I'd rather have lost a little value in trading the 6th pick and gotten DL help and a second and third than I would have to sit pat and take the best safety available.

They were dead set against trading #6 for anything less than top value though. I'm just glad it fell the way it did for the Skins. It couldn't have been a better scenario for Cowboy fans, than the way it actually played out.
 
Top