Jerametrius Butler Released by Rams... signed by Skins

[firehawk350]

Oh yes, please, take it easy on me...I'm so hurt.

Small words, got it!

How dense are you? When did I even mention Jimoh? Oh wait....I didn't. You're trying to apply your befuddling logic to something that doesn't even exist here. I was simply addressing your oh so creative labeling patterns when you dubbed Reeves as a "scrub."

Okay dude, let's get this all together. You said that Reeves could start on the Skins. And I countered by saying it's debatable that he's even better then Jimoh, who is a long shot to make the Skins, forget starting. Are you all brought up to speed here?

If you want to keep comparing two players that you've never even seen play, than by all means, continue...I'll do nothing to stand in your way.

Which two? Reeves and Jimoh? I've seen them both play and neither is great.

If Well then its a good thing that we have Reeves and our other project guys...duh. Henry is an outstanding corner when healthy...but again, what are you even talking about here?

Again your relying on Reeves to play nickel and he hasn't proven to be anything other then a bottom dweller on the depth chart. Henry, in 05 was good. I'll give you that, then he got that knee injury and hasn't been the same since. He's old (for a football player) and he may just have lost a step all together because of it. He was, in 06, at best, serviceable.

If I know this is a difficult concept to grasp, but try and keep up. I didn't even acknowledge Jimoh. I was referring to the tendencies your inept FO has towards overpaying overhyped and overrated players as band-aids in innapropriate schemes.

How does this apply to Butler? If we were to bring up every mistake of either franchise, we'd be here all day. But try to stay on subject please.

If Wow, I'm impressed you could figure that out by yourself.

Apparently you missed the part where we drafted two corners.

Two corners in the 7th round. That's going to help big time!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Two corners in the 7th round. That's going to help big time!

this is your guys' problem, you're so hung up on corners that you forgot that your front 7 can't apply pressure

but whatever, your loss, so is it going to be 10 or 11 this year?

 

[firehawk350]

getting a very good pass-rushing prospect is a good move

it could fail, or succeed, but you have to get him in here 1st

Yeah, your right, so let's stop this, he's going to turn our secondary into something animalistic then. Especially since he may not even get much playing time.

you're a genius, both Wade and Bill run a 3-4, but they are 2, different animals, a 2-gap, 3-4 is a read-and-react D, a one-gap, 3-4 is not, so...different schemes!

you do know a cover-2 and cover-1 are coverage schemes, right?

Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well. His entire defense is based on that. He was supposed to shore up the seam with an athletic MLB (look at Brian Urlacher for a good example). He's no longer doing this anymore, so his entire scheme has changed because his MLB doesn't have to cover deep middle.
The 1-gap vs. 2-gap has little, if anything, to do with coverage. The only difference is the linemen shooting a gap, rather then reacting. Though, saying that Marcus Spears or Canty will be any better in the 1-gap is reaching a bit.

 

[firehawk350]

this is your guys' problem, you're so hung up on corners that you forgot that your front 7 can't apply pressure

but whatever, your loss, so is it going to be 10 or 11 this year?

Hmmmm, we'll see about that. We'll see.

 

[firehawk350]

LOL a concussion from 2 years ago, that is your rebuttal?

Okay, if he was so great, why did he not get signed until April I believe? There wasn't exactly teams lining up to see him after all.

 

[firehawk350]

Did you jump at my reply without noticing who the poster was first? "You sit there and say..."



You put down Glenn because of his age. I simply provided you with perspective.

Saaaay, what am I thinking now?

You compared Glenn to one of the best corners of all time. And, to top it off, Green was definitely the exception to the rule there.

Again, where is the weak link at if all is well in Dallas' secondary?

 

[tomson75]

Small words, got it!

Awww, you're cute. So witty. :clap2:

Okay dude, let's get this all together. You said that Reeves could start on the Skins. And I countered by saying it's debatable that he's even better then Jimoh, who is a long shot to make the Skins, forget starting. Are you all brought up to speed here?

Wow, you are dense. I'm not even aware of who Jimoh is, and was not comparing the two players. If, however, Jimoh is as good as Reeves, then he will not be your #4 or #5 guy, but rather a #2 or #3, as Reeves would indeed be...this is of course simply based on your professional analysis...

Which two? Reeves and Jimoh? I've seen them both play and neither is great.

I'm sure that your analytical prowess is unmatched by any on this board, but for ****s and giggles, give us your unmatched insight into the strengths and weaknesses of these two players of whom you've seen take....oh, i don't know, 20? 30? snaps...

Again your relying on Reeves to play nickel and he hasn't proven to be anything other then a bottom dweller on the depth chart. Henry, in 05 was good. I'll give you that, then he got that knee injury and hasn't been the same since. He's old (for a football player) and he may just have lost a step all together because of it. He was, in 06, at best, serviceable.

Well, you're not completely dense. This is all true, but completely off topic.

How does this apply to Butler? If we were to bring up every mistake of either franchise, we'd be here all day. But try to stay on subject please.

Two corners in the 7th round. That's going to help big time!

Hmmm....you're right, why even bother with the draft, no one has ever amounted to nothin' past the second round. Let's just follow the Snyder method.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well. His entire defense is based on that. He was supposed to shore up the seam with an athletic MLB (look at Brian Urlacher for a good example). He's no longer doing this anymore, so his entire scheme has changed because his MLB doesn't have to cover deep middle.
The 1-gap vs. 2-gap has little, if anything, to do with coverage. The only difference is the linemen shooting a gap, rather then reacting. Though, saying that Marcus Spears or Canty will be any better in the 1-gap is reaching a bit.

you don't get it, coverage is what the defense runs, so changing your coverages is not changing your defensive scheme, so you're still employing a scheme that has been proven faulty, one that relies on your LBs and DBs to make plays, and for your front 4 to contain their gaps, and then look to apply the pressure

I'm talking about the scheme change which will allow Dallas to more effectively pressure the passer, which in turn is the defensive backfield's greatest weapon, so no matter how good your secondary is, it's going to get exposed if it's not protected by a pass-rush

again, you're being hung up on CBs when you should be concentrating on improving your pass-rush

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Okay, if he was so great, why did he not get signed until April I believe? There wasn't exactly teams lining up to see him after all.

Hamlin isn't "great", but last year was better for him than All-Pro Sean Taylor

 

[DallasEast]

You compared Glenn to one of the best corners of all time. And, to top it off, Green was definitely the exception to the rule there.

Again, where is the weak link at if all is well in Dallas' secondary?

Damn, you are dense. Let's look at what I previously stated again:

"It's not necessarily about age. Darrell Green was still a very effective primary cornerback when he retired at age 42. Aaron Glenn is still a very effective nickel and backup cornerback at age (almost) 35."

Do you not understand the concepts "primary", "nickel" & "backup"?

Good grief.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Damn, you are dense. Let's look at what I previously stated again:

"It's not necessarily about age. Darrell Green was still a very effective primary cornerback when he retired at age 42. Aaron Glenn is still a very effective nickel and backup cornerback at age (almost) 35."

Do you not understand the concepts "primary", "nickel" & "backup"?

Good grief.

he saw "Darrell Green" and "Jacque Reeves" and flipped out is my guess

 

[silverbear]

My god, man! I just answered the question, 'why did they sign Butler?' He was signed to compete for the 4th CB spot.

Excuse me for picking apart the Skins' corners, but I stand behind what I said...

 

[silverbear]

But cmon now, Jones and Reeves are complete scrubs and there's no way to tell who's more of a scrub Jimoh or Jones.

It's true enough that both are scrubs, but the stats clearly show that Jones is the better scrub... Jones has played 27 fewer games in the NFL, but has only 7 fewer tackles than Jimoh... neither has an interception, but Nate at least has a sack, while Jimoh does not...

Anyways, I noticed how there were a few boys fans who were all about "let's go get him for the vet min" and now that Washington signed him, it's the worst move ever.

I was in the "let's go get him" category, but only if he proved to be healthy... now that he's a Skin, naturally I hope he's not... the fact that he signed for vet minimum a day after he was released suggests he knew there weren't gonna be a lot of bidders for his services, which in turn suggests he doesn't know if he can pass a team's physical or not; did the Skins have time to give him a physical before they signed him, or did they pay nearly 600k for the proverbial pig in a poke??

 

[superpunk]

You don't often catch tomson75 in the troll-thumping threads - but I must say, Good job.

 

[silverbear]

Yeah, word out of Europe is Bramlet is tearing it up right now so I think that's the direction the Skins will head with #3 QB.

"Tearing it up"?? Looks like somebody's been swallowing the propaganda whole... time for a few facts, homer:

Bramlet has been good, but hardly great, for Hamburg this year... he ranks second (in a six team league) in quarterback rating (at 98.4), second in total yards gained passing, but 4th in completion percentage (at a hair under 60 per cent)... as a team, Hamburg ranks 3rd in total offense, 5th in number of first downs recorded, 3rd in the number of first downs gained via the pass, 4th in the percentage of their total offense that has been gained via the pass, and tied for last in 3rd down conversion percentage...

And again, these numbers are put up in a six team, inferior league... the league's best quarterback this year is JT O'Sullivan, a five year veteran who has gotten into exactly one game in those five years...

If I were you, rather than pinning my hopes on Bramlet, I'd be praying that Jordan Palmer proves to be worth a roster spot... that kid may have a future in the NFL (but I'm biased on this one, I also went to UTEP)...

 

[silverbear]

Oh, so somehow Reeves, who has the glowing stat line of 7 passes defensed and no INTs will somehow break the line-up? Yeah, that's right, good ol' Ade Jimoh, who is the long shot to make our roster has 5.

Two fewer passes defensed, in nineteen more games... let me repeat that, in NINETEEN more games...

How very disingenuous of you to omit that relevant little factoid...

Yet, your relying on Reeves to bring up the nickel spot when old as sin Glenn finally has a heart attack on the field?

Not if Courtney Brown lives up to his hype...

I don't think you have much room to talk, as your oh-so-wondrous club was 26th in pass defense and is just getting older and older (Henry will be 31 in November, Glenn will be 35 in July).

And yet, our oh-so-wondrous top 3 corners have combined to play in 92 of 96 possible games over the last 2 seasons, while your top 3 have combined to play in just 76 of 92...

Being younger doesn't matter much if you can't get those younger players ON THE FIELD, wouldn't you say??

And apparently you DON'T use draft picks for things like this. Who did you draft to help out the secondary?

Patrick Watkins in 2006, Courtney Brown and Alan Ball in 2006...

 

[silverbear]

Oh dear lord... You are a moron if you think Springs, when healthy is merely "average". You have one good corner who doesn't intercept anything.

Problem is, he's 32 now, and hasn't played a full 16 game schedule since 2000... in his last 6 seasons, he's played in 74 of a possible 96 games...

He's also had 2 ints and 15 passes defensed in 24 games covering the last 2 seasons... yeah, I'd call that "average"-- at best...

As for our one good corner, it's hard to intercept too many passes when the other team is avoiding you...

Actually dude, we're installing a new scheme. I don't know if you know, but San Diego's scheme has been good at sacks, but has never been a great one in terms of production.

Perhaps that's because, like the Skins, the Chargers don't have much in the way of DBs... this theory is supported by the fact the Chargers ranked 7th against the run in 2006, led the league against the run in 2005, and ranked 3rd against the run in 2004...

So, you have a team that gets a lot of sacks, and is very good against the run, but their overall defensive ranking is consistently middle of the pack... the conclusion is obvious, the problem lies in their cover guys...

 

[silverbear]

This is where we disagree. You sit there and say that everything is good in Dallas' secondary but your secondary didn't do so well.

And to address that deficiency, we brought in arguably the best free agent FS on the market (thus addressing our biggest hole in the secondary), then brought in a head coach whose specialty is rushing the passer, then drafted a coupla cornerbacks late in the draft, one of whom was considered a steal at the point he was drafted (Courtney Brown)...

 

[silverbear]

Your relying on a concussion Hamlin

LOL... "concussion Hamlin" has had exactly one problem with a concussion, and it took a guy taking a street sign to his head to give him that one... in his first two seasons, he played all 16 games, as he did again last year...

But hey, you go ahead and HOPE for Ken to get another concussion, I reckon that's all a Skins fan has left if he dreams of his team being a contender...

the one where there has been wondering if Watkins can take his spot?

The Cowboys are high on Watkins because:

1) He's very tall, and he can jump like a freakin' kangaroo...

2) He's fast...

IOW, the Cowboys think he's pretty good, and feel that all he needs is a little time to get ready for prime time... if he winds up beating out Hamlin, which I rather doubt, it will be less an indication that Hamlin's not that good than it will an indication that Watkins is...

 

[silverbear]

Actually, a masochist is somebody who likes pain, as in, he likes being hurt... he gets sexual gratification from it...