Jerry and the Hall

CT Dal Fan

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Jerry will forever be completely defined by Shante Carver, Ebenezer Ekuban, Kavika Pittman, and Greg Ellis over Randy Moss.

And I can keep going if you like.

A whole bunch of teams passed on Moss in 1998. The Cowboys were trying to fix their image at the time and just couldn't run the risk of bringing in another player that could potentially "tarnish the star" again. I remember Jerry mentioning passing on Moss was a huge motivation for trading up to get Dez Bryant in 2010.
 

RS12

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Discuss topic...and then actually prove your case beyond an agenda and attitude, Son...

muttley.gif
Agenda? Well pops, pot meet kettle.
 

CCBoy

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muttley.gif
Agenda? Well pops, pot meet kettle.


Huge difference, I'm pointing out actual facts...and you are insulting.

Agree with them or not, but repond to those, not me...you brought insult into view.
 

RS12

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Huge difference, I'm pointing out actual facts...and you are insulting.

Agree with them or not, but repond to those, not me...you brought insult into view.

You havent pointed out one fact yet other than an undying love. I feel pity.
 

erod

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CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Joey Galoway was the top receiver in the league when he was brought to Dallas...to replace an end of career injury to Michael Irvin. He just happened to get injured from the start of his Dallas career, and then the nature of the team itself started to change. But who's paying attention to stereotypes and beer table spilled beer?
For two first-round picks?
 

CCBoy

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You havent pointed out one fact yet other than an undying love. I feel pity.

If one desires to just push a personal agenda...stay out of a discussion. Your continual return to insult is lame...

This series of posts have not dealt with a discussion of fact...and still...attitude of agenda. Go back and deal with the facts presented, or move on...I have presented actual points in the history of Dallas, and not a singled out dislike of anyone in the organization...as a personal whipping boy. Take the challenge of a discussion, and talk about facts that I have presented...or move on.
 

Dave_in-NC

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No, Jimmy deserved his departure and then ...for Hall considerations failed in Miami. Again, who's counting? As if the owner doesn't get credit as well.
And Jerry hasn't failed since Jimmy?
 

CCBoy

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And Jerry hasn't failed since Jimmy?


Pick ANY owner over the past season and see if ANY pass that degree of challenge...they all have periods of failure.

Name the years that Dallas had 10 win seasons, or better?
 

RS12

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If one desires to just push a personal agenda...stay out of a discussion. Your continual return to insult is lame...

This series of posts have not dealt with a discussion of fact...and still...attitude of agenda. Go back and deal with the facts presented, or move on...I have presented actual points in the history of Dallas, and not a singled out dislike of anyone in the organization...as a personal whipping boy. Take the challenge of a discussion, and talk about facts that I have presented...or move on.


Facts? LOL! Lets see 20 years as GM, a 500 record, three playoff wins one of which was a gift. Numerous horrible drafts and trades, and failures on chances taken on poor character high risk players. What other facts would you like. No other GM survives five years of that much less 20, but I am sure you have some kind of pixie dust that makes this a positive your mind.
 

CCBoy

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Facts? LOL! Lets see 20 years as GM, a 500 record, three playoff wins one of which was a gift. Numerous horrible drafts and trades, and failures on chances taken on poor character high risk players. What other facts would you like. No other GM survives five years of that much less 20, but I am sure you have some kind of pixie dust that makes this a positive your mind.

None of the things presented above, are facts...do some actual research and present what you find. You have NO specific information beyond generalizations...that incidentally, don't prove out.
 

RS12

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None of the things presented above, are facts...do some actual research and present what you find. You have NO specific information beyond generalizations...that incidentally, don't prove out.
You are hopeless.
 

StarBoyz83

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He will for sure be in the hof. It would help if he could win a sb and not just buy them though.
 

CCBoy

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You are hopeless.

No, much higher in threshold of what constitutes proof...fail, as no actual facts are presented by yourself...just attitude and an agenda...again, fail.
 

CCBoy

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He will for sure be in the hof. It would help if he could win a sb and not just buy them though.

Give credit where it is due...Jerry was as active as was Jerry. But as with all coaches, he listened to his coach where he could. He was still, both GM and Owner. He gets the credit as well...
 

CCBoy

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Give credit where it is due...Jerry was as active as was Jimmy. But as with all coaches, he listened to his coach where he could. He was still, both GM and Owner. He gets the credit as well...
 

CCBoy

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As of 2014, this was the record, UNDER Jerry Jones:

25 Year History Of Dallas Draft Picks Under Jerry Jones | Inside The Star

Around this time of year, there are always fans that overstate or understate the commitment of their team to draft certain types of players. This is due to the frustration felt by the fans of the 31 teams who did NOT win the previous Super Bowl, and by our own faulty memories. We tend to judge front offices too harshly or too lightly based on their recent success in the post-season, not on their actual success in drafting good players.

Since Cowboys fans have much to be frustrated about, before we get into the full swing of the criticism that is bound to come in May due to the fact that the Cowboys cannot draft enough players to fill every need, and even if they did, the likelihood of drafting successfully at each position is exceedingly low, I think it would be a good idea to look at the FACTS of how the Cowboys have drafted players since Jerry Jones bought the team 25 years ago.

1st round – 24 picks
Defense – 15 picks

  • 6 DL – Russell Maryland, Kelvin Pritchett, Shante Carver, Greg Ellis, Ebenezer Ekuban, Marcus Spears
  • 4 LB – Robert Jones, DeMarcus Ware, Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer
  • 5 DB – Kevin Smith, Roy Williams, Terrence Newman, Mike Jenkins, Morris Claiborne
Offense – 9 picks

  • 2 OL – Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick
  • 2 WR – Alvin Harper, Dez Bryant
  • 1 TE – David LaFleur
  • 2 RB – Emmitt Smith, Felix Jones
  • 2 QB – Troy Aikman, Steve Walsh



2nd Round – 30 picks
Defense – 10 picks

  • 1 DL – Kavika Pittman
  • 6 LB – Dixon Edwards, Darren Smith, Randall Godfrey, Kevin Burnett, Sean Lee, Bruce Carter
  • 3 DB – Darren Woodson, Dwayne Goodrich, Tony Dixon
Offense – 20 picks

  • 8 OL – Steve Wisniewski, Larry Allen, Shane Hannah, Flozell Adams, Solomon Page, Andre Gurode, Al Johnson, Jacob Rogers,
  • 4 WR – Alexander Wright, Jimmy Smith, Kevin Williams, Antonio Bryant
  • 4 TE – Kendall Watkins, Anthony Fasano, Martellus Bennett, Gavin Escobar
  • 3 RB – Daryl Johnston, Sherman Williams, Julius Jones
  • 1 QB – Quincy Carter


3rd round – 31 picks
Defense – 17 picks

  • 7 DL – Rhondy Weston, Jimmie Jones, Darren Benson, Mike Ulafale, Willie Blade, Jason Hatcher, Tyrone Crawford
  • 4 LB – Godfrey Miles, Dexter Coakley, Dat Nguyen, Jason Williams
  • 6 DB – Clayton Holmes, Mike Middleton, Charlie Williams, Kenny Wheaton, Derek Ross, J.J. Wilcox
Offense – 14 picks

  • 10 OL – Mark Stepnoski, James Richards, Erik Williams, James Brown, George Hegamin, Clay Shiver, Steve Scifres, Stephen Peterman, James Marten, Robert Brewster
  • 2 WR – Stepfret Williams, Terrance Williams
  • 1 TE – Jason Witten
  • 1 RB – DeMarco Murray
  • 0 QB


If we stop for a moment to consider that the first 3 rounds are considered the premium picks, we can look at some of the Cowboys’ tendencies: The Cowboys tend to draft for defense in the first round, and then offense in the second round. The third round leans slightly toward defense, but is more even overall. Also, the Cowboys have tended to draft for D linemen in rounds 1 & 3, and O linemen in rounds 2 & 3.

The Cowboys have had very little success drafting for defensive backs in the 2nd & 3rd rounds, while all of their 1st round DB’s have become starters in the NFL. The Cowboys have had very good success finding linebackers in rounds 2 & 3.

Looking at it from an overall standpoint, the Cowboys have had a total of 85 picks in the first 3 rounds in the 25 years since Jerry Jones bought the team – 10 more than the average NFL team which has had 75 picks in that time. Considering that the Cowboys traded away three 1st round picks for WR’s Joey Galloway and Roy Williams, they’ve still had an above average chance to pick “premium” players. Just looking at these 85 premium picks, here is how the picks have been used by position in the first 3 rounds of the draft:

  • 20 – Offensive Linemen
  • 14 – Defensive Linemen
  • 14 – Linebackers
  • 14 – Defensive Backs
  • 8 – Wide Receiver (10 if you include Joey Galloway and Roy Williams)
  • 6 – Tightends
  • 6 – Running Backs
  • 3 – Quarterbacks
Since only 23 of the 85 picks (27%) used have been for offensive skill players, it is hard to justify the complaints that Jerry Jones is only interested in drafting flashy offensive skill players. The Cowboys have drafted almost as many offensive linemen (20) as they have offensive skill players in the last 25 years. And if you consider that Daryl Johnston was considered an honorary offensive lineman, the count is almost dead even.

Also, the distribution of how the Cowboys have drafted defensive players in the last 25 years could not be more even – 14 players for each level of the defense. So much for the accusation that the Cowboys are only interested in drafting defensive backs.

Unfortunately, the Cowboys have had very little success in the 2nd & 3rd rounds with Defensive backs, which may be why so many fans forget that the Cowboys have tried to find DB’s in the 2nd & 3rd rounds. Only Darren Woodson stands out as a success story, despite many Cowboys’ attempts.

So, having taken a look at how the Cowboys have used their premium picks; let’s take a look at the picks the Cowboys have used from the 4th round on. Here is a complete list of the starters the Cowboys have found in the later rounds:

  • 1989 – Tony Tolbert (11 other players never started)**
  • 1990 – Kenny Gant (1 other player never started)**
  • 1991 – Leon Lett, Larry Brown (9 other players never started)**
  • 1992 – (9 players never started)**
  • 1993 – Ron Stone, Brock Marion (4 other players never started)**
Note: Jimmy Johnson’s record of drafting starters after the 3rd round: 6 for 40 – only 15%. Keep that in mind when you get all excited about players drafted in the later rounds.

  • 19941999 (31 players never started)**
  • 2000 – Mario Edwards (4 other players never started)**
  • 2001 – Matt Lehr (5 other players never started)**
  • 2002 – (5 players never started)**
Jerry’s record in the later rounds after Jimmy Johnson left: 2 for 47 – a dismal 4.2%.

  • 2003 – Bradie James (3 other players never started)**
  • 2004 – Patrick Crayton, Jacques Reeves (3 other players never started)**
  • 2005 – Marion Barber, Chris Canty, Rob Petitti, Jay Ratliff (1 other player never started)**
  • 2006 – Pat Watkins (4 other players never started) **
Note: Bill Parcell’s record of drafting starters after the 3rd round: 8 for 19 – a remarkable 42%!!!!

  • 2007 – Doug Free, Nick Folk (4 other players never started)**
  • 2008 – Orlando Scandrick (2 other players never started)**
  • 2009 – (10 players never started)**
  • 2010 – (4 players never started)**
  • 2011 – (5 players never started)**
  • 2012 (5 players never have started)**
  • 2013 (3 players have never started)**
Jerry’s record of finding starters after the 3rd round since Bill Parcells left: 3 for 37 – a dismal 8.1%

Note: When I say never started, I mean they never won a starting position. The players may have started a game as an injury replacement. For example: Kyle Wilbur started a few games last year at linebacker and defensive end, but was never considered the 1st string player.

Only 19 of the 142 players the Cowboys have drafted after the 3rd round (13.3%) have become front-line starters. And many of those can only be considered marginal starters. Of those 142 players, only 7 have been to a Pro Bowl – Tony Tolbert (1x), Leon Lett (2x), Ron Stone (3x), Brock Marion (3x), Marion Barber (1x), Jay Ratliff (4x), and Nick Folk (1x).

Looking at the hit rate on picks after the 3rd round, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the Cowboys’ late round picks this coming May. Jerry has proven to be pretty inept without Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells when it comes to picking players in the later rounds.

Of all the later round players, Nick Folk is the only Pro Bowler Jerry picked on his own.
 

CCBoy

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Dallas Cowboys' Jerry Jones: The Owner, the GM


...About that departure of Johnson in March of 1994: Many still blame Jones for essentially firing Johnson immediately following the second of back-to-back Super Bowls from 1993-94. Essentially Jones did just that but it’s also quite clear that Johnson was certainly jockeying for a ticket out of Dallas. Johnson wanted to go home to coach the Dolphins and then-head coach Don Shula was going to be retiring soon. The most that Cowboys fans could have hoped for is that Johnson would coach one more season in 1994 and make a better push for the “three-peat” than his replacement did.

In short, there was blood on both the hands of Johnson and Jones and it is unfair to assume that it was all Jerry. I still believe Johnson completely played Jones for a way out much sooner than his contract would allow but there is some blame to place at Jones. Amidst the success, Jones let his ego get the best of him. You’re probably aware of Johnson’s provocative press comments late in 1993 and his snubbing of Jones’ proposed toast following Super Bowl XXVIII. Jones, like most humans, got his ego bruised and he got pissed and lost composure. His next move following Johnson’s release was proof.

Barry Switzer was the second head coach hired by Jerry Jones ... and a massive risk.

If Jones had realized that winning in the NFL was not easy, there is no way that he turns to Barry Switzer, of all people, to replace a two time Super Bowl winner as head coach. I wouldn’t think Switzer could replace anybody doing anything for this organization at the time. But Jones was taking an additional parting shot at Johnson, especially considering the history of Johnson and Switzer as college coaches. In doing so, he likely cost the Dallas Cowboys four straight Super Bowl wins.

Perhaps the only other landmark decision ever made by Jones was the signing of free agent cornerback Deion Sanders following the start of the 1995 regular season. If ever Jones’ ego was a good thing for Cowboys fans this was the time. The season prior, Sanders had ended up being arguably the difference maker in the NFC power struggle between the Cowboys and the soon-to-be-fading San Francisco 49ers. But the team of the 80’s was not quite done yet and called in everything but the United States Armed Forces in order to beat the Cowboys. The plan worked as Dallas was denied that third straight appearance in the Super Bowl by Sanders and the 49ers who would end up beating San Diego in a blowout.

Well, like that Herschel Walker trade several years before, how hard was it to realize that you had to prevent San Francisco, essentially without any cap room to sign Sanders to a long term contract following his one year rental in 1994, from having the league’s best cover corner? Take nothing away from Jones on this one but it wasn’t exactly a tough call. After all, Dallas had just lost top corner Kevin Smith in the ’95 season opening blowout win over the New York Giants which essentially left the Cowboys with Larry Brown as the only starting quality cornerback...


Just catching up with some of the reality.
 

PA Cowboy Fan

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And Jerry hasn't failed since Jimmy?
I like how they say Jimmy failed in Miami. He still led them to the playoffs 3 straight years. And that shouldn't be held against him for what he did for the Cowboys. We've only been to the playoffs 5 times this century.
 
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