Jerry Just Interviewed on ESPN 2: Mentions WOW Player Again...

[dbair1967]

Let me help you out here. First, you have to compare these numbers to other postitions and find out if the success ratios are reflective of overall numbers regardless of position in the NFL. Second, you have to explain the criteria you base your judgement on, for these players. Lastly, you have to present these players as injury or poor performance criteria. I would judge players in the following manner. If a player has washed out because of injury, then I don't consider that as failure in the draft approach. Players are going to get hurt. Part of the game. If a guy plays 8 years for you and is a starter, I'd consider that guy a good pick. Not great but I'd take an 8 year starter with a 1st round pick over a guy who you pick and he can never beat out the guy in front of him. Obviously, guys who make several Pro Bowls, All Pro teams go without saying. This is how these players should be evaluated IMO. Having said that, here is how I would judge them.

4- Jonathan Ogden LT Ravens 12 year starter in NFL. Suited up 177 games, started 176. 11 Pro Bowl Seasons, 9 All Pro Seasons.
10- Willie Anderson RT Bengals 12 year starter in NFL. Suited up 181 games, started 173. 4 Pro Bowl Seasons, 4 All Pro Seasons.
21- Pete Kendall G Seahawks 12 year starter in NFL. Suited up 173 games, started 172.
23 Jeff Hartings G/C Lions 11 year starter in NFL. Suited up 163 games, started 160. 2 Pro Bowl Seasons, 2 All Pro Seasons.
25 Jermane Mayberry OG Eagles 9 year starter in NFL. Suited up for 123 games, started 104. 1 Pro Bowl Seasons, 1 All Pro Season.
27 John Michaels T Packers 2 years in the NFL. Suited up for 24 games, started 14. Career cut short by injury. ACL, MCL and Cartlidge tears sustained in pass block drills against Vonnie Holiday. Could not be repaired. Never passed physical to get back on field. Name is actually spelled Michels.
29 Jermaine Stephens T Steelers 5 years in the NFL. Suited up for 39 games, started 15. Name is spelled Jamain Stephens.
30 Andre JohnsonT Commanders 2 seasons in the NFL. Suited for 3 games, never started. Career cut short by injuries.

1997

1 Orlando Pace LT Rams 10 year starter in the NFL. Suited up 144 games, started 140. 7 Pro Bowl Seasons, 6 All Pro Seasons.
6 Walter Jones LT Seahawks 11 year starter in the NFL. Suited up 168 games, started 168 games. 8 Pro Bowl Seasons, 7 All Pro Seasons.
10 Chris Neaole OG Saints 10 year starter in the NFL. Suited up 154 games, started 150. Spelled Naeole.
19 Tarik Glenn LT Colts 10 year starter in the NFL. Suited up 154 games, started 154 games. 3 Pro Bowl Seasons.
30 Ross Verba OG Packers 8 year starter in the NFL. Suited up 117 games, started 107.

1998

7 Kyle Turley RT Saints 9 year starter in the NFL. Suited up for 109 games, started 107. One All Pro Season.
11 Tra Thomas LT Eagles 10 year starter in the NFL. Suited up 150 games, started 149. 3 Pro Bowl Seasons, 2 All Pro Seasons.
23 Mo Collins RT Raiders 6 yr starter in the NFL. Suited up 71 games, started 64.
26 Alan Faneca OG Steelers 10 year starter in the NFL. 7 Pro Bowl seasons, 7 All Pro Seasons.
27 Victor Riley RT Chiefs 8 year starter in the NFL. Suited up for 111 games, started 93. Retired in 2005 due to injurys.


1999

14 John Tait RT Chiefs 8 year starter in NFL. Suited up 132 games, started 123.
18 Matt Stincomb RT Raiders 5 years in NFL. Suited up for 66 games, started 36. Actually spelled Stinchcomb.
19 Luke Petigout LT Giants 9 year starter in NFL. Suited up for 118 games, started 109. Actually spelled Petitgout.
21 LJ Shelton RT Cardinals 9 year starter in NFL. 130 games suited, 125 started.
27 Aaaron Gibson RT Lions 5 year career in NFL. 38 games suited, 34 started. Ate himself out of the league.


2000

3 Chris Samuels LT Commanders 8 year starter in NFL. 124 games suited up, 124 games started. 5 Pro Bowl seasons, 2 All Pro seasons.
20 Stockar McDougal RT Lions 7 Seasons in the NFL. Suited up for 80 games, started 56.
22 Chris McIntosh RT Seahawks Played two seasons in the NFL. McIntosh suited up for 24 games. McIntosh started 10 of 14 games in his rookie seasons prior to sustaining a career ending Neck injury in his second seasons. He never recovered, never returned to football.

2001

2 Leonard Davis LT Cardinals 7 year starter in the NFL. Suited up for 107 games, started 107 games. One Pro Bowl Seasons, One All Pro Seasons.
14 Kenyatta Walker RT Bucs 5 year starter in NFL. Suited for 75 games, started 73 games. Out of football in 06.
17 Steve Hutchinson OG Seahawks 7 years starter in the NFL. Suited for 100 games, started 100 games. 5 Pro Bowl Seasons, 5 All Pro Seasons.
18 Jeff Backus LT Lions 7 year starer in the NFL. Suited up for 112 games, started 112 games.

2002

4 Mike Williams RT Bills Started 4 seasons in the NFL, played 5. Suited up for 51 games, started 47. Out of football since 2005.
7 Bryant McKinnie LT Vikings 6 year starter in the NFL. Suited for 88 games, started 87.
10 Levi Jones LT Bengals 6 year starter in NFL. Suited up for 84 games, started 79.
29 Marc Columbo RT Bears 5 seasons in the NFL, two as starter. Suited up for 55 games, started 39. Has started all 16 games last two seasons. Spelled Colombo, Marc Colombo started his career injured and has taken 3 seasons to recover. Jury is still out on this player IMO but leaning towards success IMO.
30 Kendall Simmons OG Steelers 5 year starter in the NFL. Suited up for 79 games, started 76 games.

2003

8 Jordan Gross RT Panthers 5 year starter in NFL. Has suited up for 80 games, has started 80 games.
20 George Foster RT Broncos 3 year starter in the NFL, to this point. Has been in league 5 years. Suited up for 64 games, has started 54. Jury is still out IMO.
21 Jeff Faine C Browns 5 year starter in NFL. 66 games suited up, 66 games started.
26 Kwame Harris RT Niners 2 year starter in NFL, 5 years in the league. Suited up 72 games, started 44. Still has a chance but right now, I'd say bust.

2004

2 Robert Gallery LT Raiders 4 year starter in the NFL. 58 games suited up, 57 games started.
16 Shawn Andrews RG Eagles 4 years in NFL, 3 year starter. Sustained season ending injury in rookie year. Has been starter for Philly last three seasons. 48 games suited up, 48 games started.
19 Vernon Carey OG Dolphins 3 year starter in NFL, has been in the league 4 years. 62 games suited up, 48 started. In the last three seasons, he has been the starter 46 of 48 games.

2005 Beyond this point, I don't think you can fairly evaluate. However, I will provide feed back on limited info.

13 Jamaal Brown T Saints 3 year starter in NFL. Suited up 43 games, started 43 games. One Pro Bowl Season, one All pro Season. Spelled Jammal.
19 Alex Barron RT Rams 3 year starter in NFL. Suited up 44 games, started 43.
26 Chris Spencer C Seahawks 3 years in NFL, 2 year starter. Suited up 40 games, started 29. Has started 29 of last 32 since 06 season.
32 Logan Mankins G Patriots 3 year starter in NFL. Suited up 48 games, started 48 games. One Pro Bowl, one All Pro season.

2006

4 D Brickashaw Ferguson LT Jets Two year starter in NFL. Suited 32 games, started 32 games. Too early to tell but I would list him as succesful pick.
23 Davin Joseph G Bucs 2 year starter in NFL. 29 games suited, 28 games started. Sustained season ending injury in rookie year but has come back strong. Too early to tell but at this point, I'd list him as a succesful Pick.
29 Nick Mangold C Jets 2 year starter in NFL. 32 games suited, 32 games started. Too early to tell but at this point, I would list him as succesful pick.

2007

3 Joe Thomas LT Browns 1 year starter in NFL. Suited 16 games, started 16 games. 1 Pro Bowl seasons. Too early to tell but at this point, I'd list him as a succesful pick.
5 Levi Brown RT Cardinals 1 year starter in NFL. 13 games suited, 11 games started. Too early to tell but right now, I'd list him as a succesful pick.
28 Joe Staley T Niners 1 year starter. 16 games suited. 16 games started. Too early to tell but looks to be a good pick.
29 Ben Grubbs OG Ravens 1 year starter. 16 games suited, 12 games started. Too early to tell but looks to be a good pick.

Now, based on this evaluation, I'd say the numbers would change significantly. Many of these players are not All Pros, per say, but if you said I could spend a high pick on a guy who would start for me for several years, I'd probably take that. JMO but you see how evaluations can change depending on what is being evaluated.

your judgement on succes is whether they start games or not? sorry, but that doesnt justify where alot of those guys were picked. It seems rather defeatist to me to draft an OL in the first rd simply so he can man a starting job. As someone else mentioned, with the draft being such a crapshoot anyway it makes more sense to gamble on guys who will make a significant impact, and single OL other than truly special players like a Hannah, Munoz or Larry Allen are not impact players

Alot of those players above just werent any good, and you try to justify them being worth a first rd pick because they suited up and or started some games? You can find guys to suit up and start games in any round and even as UDFA's, and again the track record for alot of the really good teams over time has been to use early picks on true impact positions and develop OL in other ways. John MICHELS was a terrible OL, he couldnt block his way out of a wet paperbag. Chris Naeole was a mediocre to average starter at best over his career, and was chosen with a top-10 pick. Mo Collins, Victor Riley...AVERAGE at best players...Matt STINCHCOMB was a lousy NFL starter...Aaron Gibson was horrible...Petitgout was average...Kwame Harris has been a huge bust...the jury is out on Foster? HUH?? the guy stinks...Bryant McKinnie is on the verge of being released soon because of on and off the field problems...K Walker=BUST..Jeff Faine, average at best starter...Stockar McDougal...terrible...Robert Gallery, massive bust..Alex Barron, very average...Vernon Carey, ordinary

I guess by your standards then had we drafted Akin Ayodele in the 1st rd (instead of signing him as a free agent) he'd be a success...same for a guy like Kyle Kosier...Oliver Hoyte started alot of games, him too...etc etc etc

David

 

[Manwiththeplan]

My guess...

A "wow" player and "you'll be suprised how we get there" = McFadden.

Hmmm.....what if I sneak cocaine into his car, and let him take the rap. He falls all the way to round 7, we draft him, then I show the world it was only baby powder. That would be our "wow" player and I think we'd all be suprised how we got there......except me ofcourse.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

your judgement on succes is whether they start games or not? sorry, but that doesnt justify where alot of those guys were picked. It seems rather defeatist to me to draft an OL in the first rd simply so he can man a starting job. As someone else mentioned, with the draft being such a crapshoot anyway it makes more sense to gamble on guys who will make a significant impact, and single OL other than truly special players like a Hannah, Munoz or Larry Allen are not impact players

Alot of those players above just werent any good, and you try to justify them being worth a first rd pick because they suited up and or started some games? You can find guys to suit up and start games in any round and even as UDFA's, and again the track record for alot of the really good teams over time has been to use early picks on true impact positions and develop OL in other ways. John MICHELS was a terrible OL, he couldnt block his way out of a wet paperbag. Chris Naeole was a mediocre to average starter at best over his career, and was chosen with a top-10 pick. Mo Collins, Victor Riley...AVERAGE at best players...Matt STINCHCOMB was a lousy NFL starter...Aaron Gibson was horrible...Petitgout was average...Kwame Harris has been a huge bust...the jury is out on Foster? HUH?? the guy stinks...Bryant McKinnie is on the verge of being released soon because of on and off the field problems...K Walker=BUST..Jeff Faine, average at best starter...Stockar McDougal...terrible...Robert Gallery, massive bust..Alex Barron, very average...Vernon Carey, ordinary

I guess by your standards then had we drafted Akin Ayodele in the 1st rd (instead of signing him as a free agent) he'd be a success...same for a guy like Kyle Kosier...Oliver Hoyte started alot of games, him too...etc etc etc

David

First of all, alot of the guys you point out here are not listed as good on my board. Secondly, yeah, if you start games, that means that you are not getting beaten out. That means that you are contributing to the team effort. That's what it's about. Not all players can be Hall of Fame players. If a guy is not any good, then he gets beaten out or replaced. These guys suited up and started most of there careers. Your judgement of what's good and what is not good may not be what is considered as value by teams. That's the point right? You can't say they were no good because you didn't think they were any good. Give criteria that can be accepted as points of consideration. Then talk to me. Just saying they were no good doesn't cut it. There has to be criteria that is considered and accepted.