Jerry, Landry, Jason

[Sydla]

As we now know, Jerry made the comparison/analogy that it took years for Landry to win a Super Bowl hence, we can't be quick to judge Garrett. Fisher backed Jerry here saying that you don't know who is a SB caliber coach until they actually win one. I think that's such lazy and flawed thinking because if you actually look at the vast history of Super Bowl winning coaches, almost every one had experienced way more success in their first 8 years than Garrett has.

Here what all the SB winning coaches had accomplished by Year 8 with a team:

- Vince Lombardi - Won 3 NFL Championships, 1 Super Bowl win

- Weeb Ewbank - Won 2 NFL Championships (Baltimore), 1 Super Bowl win (Jets)

- Hank Stram - 2 AFL Championships, 1 Super Bowl appearance

- Don McCafferty - 1 Super Bowl, 1 AFC Championship, 2 total AFC Championship game appearances

- Don Shula - 2 Super Bowls, 3 total SB appearances (Miami), 1 NFL Championship, 2 NFL Champ appearances (Baltimore)

- Chuck Noll - 4 AFC Champ game appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins

- John Madden - AFC Championship game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Tom Flores - 2 Super Bowl wins

- Bill Walsh - 3 NFC Champ game appearances, 2 SB wins

- Joe Gibbs - 4 NFC Champ game appearances, 3 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins

- Mike Ditka - 3 NFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Bill Parcells - 2 Super Bowl wins

- George Seifert - 5 NFC Champ game appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins

- Jimmy Johnson - 2 Super Bowl wins

- Barry Switzer - 2 NFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Mike Holmgren - 3 NFC Champ game appearances, 2 Super Bowl appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Mike Shanahan - 2 Super Bowl wins

- Dick Vermeil - 1 Super Bowl appearance (Philly), 1 Super Bowl win (Rams)

- Brian Billick - 1 Super Bowl win

- Bill Belichick - 5 AFC Champ game appearances, 4 Super Bowl appearances, 3 Super Bowl wins

- John Gruden - 1 AFC Champ game appearance (Oakland), 1 Super Bowl win (TB)

- Bill Cowher - 3 AFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance

- Tony Dungy - 1 NFC Champ appearance (TB), 2 AFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win (Indy)

- Tom Coughlin - 2 AFC Champ game appearances (Jax), 2 Super Bowl wins (NYG)

- Mike Tomlin - 2 Super Bowl appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Sean Payton - 2 NFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Mike McCarthy - 2 NFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- John Harbaugh - 3 AFC Champ game appearances, 1 Super Bowl win

- Pete Carroll - 2 SB appearances, 1 Super Bowl win (SEA)

- Doug Pederson - 1 Super Bowl win

That leaves 2 SB winning coaches - Landry and Kubiak - not on this list.

Kubiak did zero in Houston and was gone after 8 seasons there. He won a SB after his first year in Denver.

Landry, yes, took awhile but he also took over a brand new franchise and had to build it from scratch. But even then, in the history of the SB, you can only really make the case that 2 took a long time to win a SB and did so after exhibiting limited success early in their careers.

Every single SB winning coach other than Kubiak and Landry had at least coached in a SB by Year 8.

So essentially, Jerry is claiming that the anomalies are the model he's basing his decisions on.

 

[cowboyblue22]

the cowboys are not any closer to winning super bowl now than they were when garrett started this team is for people who are content with participation trophies and average play if they hold to the normal they wont even make the playoffs next year u either temper your expectations or move on to another team that is being coached and run better

 

[BlueNSilver88]

Jerry is trying to gaslight us

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

And Landry did coach in the NFL Championship Games in 1966 and 1967. So that's year 7 and 8. Garrett hasn't gotten us that far. Garrett hasn't even gotten us in the playoffs 2 straight years.

 

[kuyyo_morro]

All those successful coaches were successful coordinators before being the HC. Coach Garrett had to learn till 2014. We should start measuring his success from 2014 onwards. The 1st years were him getting used to the NFL coaching.


2014 onwards, he has been to playoffs in 2014, 2016, 2018. 2017 finished at 9-7 which is a winning record. You never know a super bowl coach unless he wins one.

Who thought Doug Pederson would win it last season.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Jerry would try to convince fans that dog turd over there is the most delicious chocolate pudding you've ever tasted if he thought he could make a buck off it.

That's all he's doing with the Landry-Garrett comparison.

 

[jazzcat22]

Not sticking up for Jason or Jerry at all here. But.

Back in the 60's you only had to win one game to be the NFL or AFL champion.
Hardly a comparison to todays NFL.

Up until the mid 90's, you could build a team and keep your players. You knew you had a good player for their career.
Now a team is lucky to keep a core group together for 3 to 4 years..

That should not be an excuse for not having advanced further. But it does need to be taken into account.
The one exception on this is the Patriots, but then again they have the QB and the coach and the owner. Which is rare now days, very rare.
Jerry had the coach in Jimmy, but his ego screwed that up. Or they could have been successful for 10 years or more.

 

[Sydla]

All those successful coaches were successful coordinators before being the HC. Coach Garrett had to learn till 2014. We should start measuring his success from 2014 onwards. The 1st years were him getting used to the NFL coaching.


2014 onwards, he has been to playoffs in 2014, 2016, 2018. 2017 finished at 9-7 which is a winning record. You never know a super bowl coach unless he wins one.

Who thought Doug Pederson would win it last season.

Actually you kind of do know. Because the vast majority of SB winning coaches (save for 2) all had way more on the field success by this point in their coaching careers.

 

[Risen Star]

How many of those coaches had a lunatic owner micro-managing the entire team including the GM chair while hiring his equally incompetent family to key positions?

As much as I hate Garrett I can not and will not ever compare him to a coach who didn't work for Jerry Jones because it's simply not fair. If they're not on a level playing field the comparison is flawed.

 

[Diehardblues]

How many of those coaches had a lunatic owner micro-managing the entire team including the GM chair while hiring his equally incompetent family to key positions?

As much as I hate Garrett I can not and will not ever compare him to a coach who didn't work for Jerry Jones because it's simply not fair. If they're not on a level playing field the comparison is flawed.

Bingo

 

[Diehardblues]

But Jerry has a valid point.

We can only speculate who going to win a SB until they do.

While in most cases it does comes earlier in their careers I’d argue it’s mostly about the talent or great HC’s would win more often and at different stints.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’ve often argued Landry was one of if not the greatest because he took 4 different QB’s to a championship game but only 1QB could get him over the hump on some teams good enough to win.

Great coaches and teams simply run up against greater teams like Cowboys did with Packers and Steelers while being good enough to win simply didn’t make enough plays and why it’s important who comes out on top.

Those marginal plays often determine how history is written and why we glorify the winners.

 

[LucaBrasi]

How many of those coaches had a lunatic owner micro-managing the entire team including the GM chair while hiring his equally incompetent family to key positions?

As much as I hate Garrett I can not and will not ever compare him to a coach who didn't work for Jerry Jones because it's simply not fair. If they're not on a level playing field the comparison is flawed.

This past week was a microcosm of where this once proud franchise currently resides. Jerry threw a pre playoff game party in LA friday night, no doubt he and the fam were soaked in JW Blue all night. Charlotte was tweeting out "its the playoffs in Los Angeles!!!" ad nauseum. They seemed enamored that they were even playing in a game this past weekend, and "hey its in LA so lets have a party." Then of course, we brought the wrong damn cleats. This despite the fact that it rained for 12 hours pregame and everyone in America knew the field sucked and it simply always is slick for these early evening/night games. See Rams playoff game last year vs Falcons (Jerry probably didnt watch it). I know we didnt actually bring the wrong cleats, I'm just humoring the lunatic Jones. Seemed the Jones family was just happy to be there, was anyone thinking about winning? Sure as hell didnt seem like the defense was.

Anyway, none of this is the reason the Cowboys lost Saturday, but this culture is comical. Actually its sad and pathetic or at least if feels that way to me since I would like to follow a team that advances past the gdamn divisional round once in a blue moon.

The topper was Sunday in the FOX pregame when Curt Menefee recapped the prior day's games and said "The Cowboys have not won a road playoff game since you were there Jimmy." To which Jimmy Johnson started shaking his head and laughing uproariously

Go Cowboys!

 

[fifaguy]

Mentioning JG in the same sentence as Landry makes me want to hurl...

 

[links18]

How many of those coaches had a lunatic owner micro-managing the entire team including the GM chair while hiring his equally incompetent family to key positions?

As much as I hate Garrett I can not and will not ever compare him to a coach who didn't work for Jerry Jones because it's simply not fair. If they're not on a level playing field the comparison is flawed.

Compare him to Jimmy Johnson then. Garrett is no Jimmy Johnson. Case in point, Jimmy got the hell out of Dallas the second Jerry started causing trouble.

 

[pjtoadie]

This past week was a microcosm of where this once proud franchise currently resides. Jerry threw a pre playoff game party in LA friday night, no doubt he and the fam were soaked in JW Blue all night. Charlotte was tweeting out "its the playoffs in Los Angeles!!!" ad nauseum. They seemed enamored that they were even playing in a game this past weekend, and "hey its in LA so lets have a party." Then of course, we brought the wrong damn cleats. This despite the fact that it rained for 12 hours pregame and everyone in America knew the field sucked and it simply always is slick for these early evening/night games. See Rams playoff game last year vs Falcons (Jerry probably didnt watch it). I know we didnt actually bring the wrong cleats, I'm just humoring the lunatic Jones. Seemed the Jones family was just happy to be there, was anyone thinking about winning? Sure as hell didnt seem like the defense was.

Anyway, none of this is the reason the Cowboys lost Saturday, but this culture is comical. Actually its sad and pathetic or at least if feels that way to me since I would like to follow a team that advances past the gdamn divisional round once in a blue moon.

The topper was Sunday in the FOX pregame when Curt Menefee recapped the prior day's games and said "The Cowboys have not won a road playoff game since you were there Jimmy." To which Jimmy Johnson started shaking his head and laughing uproariously

Go Cowboys!

Spot on post! To think that they haven’t won a road playoff game in 20+ years is crazy!

 

[CPanther95]

The biggest difference with Landry is 4 years after they were an expansion team, the Cowboys showed steady, deliberate improvement for the years following that.

 

[Risen Star]

Compare him to Jimmy Johnson then. Garrett is no Jimmy Johnson. Case in point, Jimmy got the hell out of Dallas the second Jerry started causing trouble.

I would compare him to Jimmy Johnson if I actually believed Jimmy and Garrett were in comparable situations.

Jimmy had personnel control in his contract. He built that team. He was the voice of it.

 

[Sydla]

How many of those coaches had a lunatic owner micro-managing the entire team including the GM chair while hiring his equally incompetent family to key positions?

As much as I hate Garrett I can not and will not ever compare him to a coach who didn't work for Jerry Jones because it's simply not fair. If they're not on a level playing field the comparison is flawed.

So you think Garrett is mediocre but won't admit he is mediocre because it might be some weird referendum on Jerry?

Got it.

 

[Risen Star]

So you think Garrett is mediocre but won't admit he is mediocre because it might be some weird referendum on Jerry?

Got it.

No, I think he's mediocre but I know he hasn't had the opportunity like those others have had so I'm projecting on him.

Do you honestly believe Vince Lombardi today in his prime would have great success working for Jerry Jones? Bill Walsh? Belichick? Parcells? Where they can't even be the lone voice in their own locker room? Where Jerry and his son pick their players?

None of them would. So your comparison is severely flawed and actually pretty ignorant considering you're a Cowboys fan and should know better.