Jerry, T.O. Is Not Irvin

[TwoDeep3]

Michael Irvin was the emotional leader of the team.

T.O. is the emotional player on the team.

Michael Irvin was the heart of the franchise.

T.O. is the heart of controversy.

Michael Irvin led by his unflinching desire to win.

T.O. doesn't lead by his unflinching desire to pad his stats.

Michael Irvin spoke out challenging the players on the team to meet his level of commitment.

T.O. doesn't speak to other offensive players except Romo .

Michael Irvin was skilled at using his hands to snatch the ball out of the air.

T.O. uses his hands to club the ball as it passes him by for an incompletion.

Michael Irvin was the reason the team played as a team.

T.O. is the reason there are factions on the squad that are at odds with each other.

Michael Irvin was the major reason this team got to and won Super Bowls.

T.O. is the major reason this team does not win significant games.

Jerry, if you fool yourself into thinking T.O. is Michael Irvin and releasing him would be a major mistake, the only real fool is you.

And if the rumors are true that you are the lone hold out on cutting your loses with T.O., then you are not truly a football man, but an owner that crosses the line because of your hubris.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Correctamundo. Nice post.

 

[LatinMind]

i guess nobody remembers irvin asking t be traded when dallas signed james mcknight. because he thought dallas was "replacing" him

 

[Apollo Creed]

i guess nobody remembers irvin asking t be traded when dallas signed james mcknight. because he thought dallas was "replacing" him

Or slicing a guys throat with scissors. Owens is yet to accomplish that.

 

[Hostile]

Owens is the most dangerous WR on this team. Unfortunately he's just as dangerous to the Cowboys as he is to their opponents.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I am going to be laughing my arse off after we release TO and still miss the playoffs next year.


You guys act like we release TO and we are going to win the SB since TO is responsible for all our problems.


Has anybody thought that maybe there are other problems with the team, like poor tackling. I am not sure how TO being released will cause the defense to start tackling again. Or how our o-line will start blocking if TO is released, or how the secondary will actually start covering people on 3rd and forever with TO being released, or how the ST unit will start covering kicks when TO is released.


But I guess all that doesnt matter, TO is the team cancer and everything. I wonder what all the excuses will be when we win 8 games next year without TO.

I guess Romo is next up for the "team cancer" tag and we will start getting 100 threads a day about how much better the team is going to be without him...........yea, sure.

 

[big dog cowboy]

T.O. is the major reason this team does not win significant games.

Sorry but I'm not buying that. The 2007 team was healthy and really clicking. We won 13 games that year which is very significant. It wasn't his fault we lost to Seattle.

 

[BIGDen]

Or slicing a guys throat with scissors. Owens is yet to accomplish that.

Owens just does it figuratively.

 

[cowboyed]

First of all most of us, especially lately know how accurate undisclosed source reports are, right?

But in the event the meeting happened or is happening I think it is a good idea. Veteran players meet away from work and provide their open and earnest opinion about T.O. at this juncture.

It may not be Jones desperately attempting to hold on to T.O. but to make the best decision over retaining T.O., if that is workable - or to actually cut him.

Jones indicated there would be tangible changes. I believe him because he cannot afford another fallout year from the media and fans particularly going into a very expensive new stadium.

I tell you one thing though, there is one evil or destructive mole at Valley Ranch. It can't sit well that T.O. is going to find out through the media that Jerry is holding a meeting like this regarding his future. I am hoping he was informed of the meeting if indeed this disclosure is true.

And before someone starts chiming in on Wade being further emasculated over this purported meeting, kindly consider that he may be aware and approved of it and even be at the meeting.

 

[5Countem5]

Michael Irvin was the emotional leader of the team.

T.O. is the emotional player on the team.

Michael Irvin was the heart of the franchise.

T.O. is the heart of controversy.

Michael Irvin led by his unflinching desire to win.

T.O. doesn't lead by his unflinching desire to pad his stats.

Michael Irvin spoke out challenging the players on the team to meet his level of commitment.

T.O. doesn't speak to other offensive players except Romo .

Michael Irvin was skilled at using his hands to snatch the ball out of the air.

T.O. uses his hands to club the ball as it passes him by for an incompletion.

Michael Irvin was the reason the team played as a team.

T.O. is the reason there are factions on the squad that are at odds with each other.

Michael Irvin was the major reason this team got to and won Super Bowls.

T.O. is the major reason this team does not win significant games.

Jerry, if you fool yourself into thinking T.O. is Michael Irvin and releasing him would be a major mistake, the only real fool is you.

And if the rumors are true that you are the lone hold out on cutting your loses with T.O., then you are not truly a football man, but an owner that crosses the line because of your hubris.

T.O. has also never stabbed a team mate in the locker room, run prostitutes and drugs through a another house to have a place away from his family and he has never been convicted of anything.

I would think those sorts of things would matter to an "old school" type.

 

[lcharles]

I am going to be laughing my arse off after we release TO and still miss the playoffs next year.


You guys act like we release TO and we are going to win the SB since TO is responsible for all our problems.


Has anybody thought that maybe there are other problems with the team, like poor tackling. I am not sure how TO being released will cause the defense to start tackling again. Or how our o-line will start blocking if TO is released, or how the secondary will actually start covering people on 3rd and forever with TO being released, or how the ST unit will start covering kicks when TO is released.


But I guess all that doesnt matter, TO is the team cancer and everything. I wonder what all the excuses will be when we win 8 games next year without TO.

I guess Romo is next up for the "team cancer" tag and we will start getting 100 threads a day about how much better the team is going to be without him...........yea, sure.

T.O. is part of Romo's problem. Heck I'd look for Witten too, at least he runs his route, gives effort on every play.


If you really want to gage the value of T.O., put out feelers for a trade and see how many teams come knocking.


Dude has zero trade value, not because his tank is empty, but because his head is.



Cut T.O. and draft a WR to go with what we have. We may not make the playoffs, but at least I won't hate my team as bad.

 

[Bleu Star]

It's happy hour Willie. Make that money feller!!

:fogeys: :fogeys: :mchammer: :banjo: :spidey: :fogeys: :fogeys:

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Or slicing a guys throat with scissors. Owens is yet to accomplish that.

Apollo, I enjoy your perspective, and you come the closest of any of the "Owens should return" crowd to swaying my opinion. I think you make some strong arguments.

But in this case, I fail to see the relevance. Irvin did exactly what you describe. But surely you don't think Irvin failed to be a team leader? Michael Irvin?

From a legal sense, Owens hasn't come close to matching Irvin's shoddy track record. In fact, Owens has a spotless record, as far as I know. But I'm not sure that has anything to do with their respective influences on football teams. And I'm not defending the Irvin "scissors incident," not at all. I just don't see the relevance.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Apollo, I enjoy your perspective, and you come the closest of any of the "Owens should return" crowd to swaying my opinion. I think you make some strong arguments.

But in this case, I fail to see the relevance. Irvin did exactly what you describe. But surely you don't think Irvin failed to be a team leader? Michael Irvin?

From a legal sense, Owens hasn't come close to matching Irvin's shoddy track record. In fact, Owens has a spotless record, as far as I know. But I'm not sure that has anything to do with their respective influences on football teams. And I'm not defending the Irvin "scissors incident," not at all. I just don't see the relevance.

Its all perception man.

Irvin was a cokehead, that cheated on his wife routinely, bullied guys he didn't think belonged, and in a fit of rage one day sliced a guys throat because he wouldn't get out of a barbers chair.

But he worked harder than anyone else, demanded that guys performed, came up huge in big games, and had a great relationship with his QB.

I'm the same way with Owens, I don't think his distractions deter our success any more than Romo's lackadaisical turnovers, our offensive lines lack of discipline, our secondaries inability to force turnovers, etc. I care about what happens between the white lines on Sundays, and you aren't going to find someone that wants to win more than 81.

 

[5Countem5]

Irvin brought more shame to this team than every other player to ever play here combined.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Irvin brought more shame to this team than every other player to ever play here combined.

I disagree with that. He brought 3 rings here, had we not won - then maybe so. But he was the heart and soul of our dynasty.

He's made tons of mistakes, but I think the way he's made such a radical lifestyle change has helped polish his legacy. Especially that hall of fame speech, he was embarrassed about his past and faced it. Thanks for reminding me, I'm going to go watch that right now.

 

[Hostile]

Irvin brought more shame to this team than every other player to ever play here combined.

I am not an Irvin fan, but I disagree completely.

Rafael Septien and Lance Rentzel both were involved in sexual misconduct with minors. Dwayne Goodrich killed two people (who were trying to be good Samaritans) in a felony hit and run.

 

[5Countem5]

I disagree with that. He brought 3 rings here, had we not won - then maybe so. But he was the heart and soul of our dynasty.

He's made tons of mistakes, but I think the way he's made such a radical lifestyle change has helped polish his legacy. Especially that hall of fame speech, he was embarrassed about his past and faced it. Thanks for reminding me, I'm going to go watch that right now.

I was simply stating that Irvin was the ringleader of the criminal thugs that inhabited this team in the 90's. Never said he didn't win and never said he hasn't changed but he was the catalyst that gave the team it's image.

 

[5Countem5]

I am not an Irvin fan, but I disagree completely.

Rafael Septien and Lance Rentzel both were involved in sexual misconduct with minors. Dwayne Goodrich killed two people (who were trying to be good Samaritans) in a felony hit and run.

Are you saying any of those got the coverage that Irvin received? I lived in Dallas then and Goodrich's charges and trial got a fraction of the coverage Irvin's drug trial got. A fraction of the coverage when the officer put a hit on him and every other of his sordid events.

Are you saying Landry's Cowboys were looked at like thugs as well based on Septien and Rentzel? Everyone knows individual players may twist off and commit crimes and it wasn't reflected on the team.

Irvin was looked at as the guy promoting thug behavior, like he facilitated it. With Williams paying his way out of a "situation" all the way up to Nate's MJ arrest, Irvin was the posterboy- and rightly so.

 

[Wrangler87]

Irvin was no Angel. Certainly not. He was a leader on the field, but no further.

The difference is that team had plenty of self motivators who busted butt to try and be the best.


When are some of you posters going to understand this. These are grown professional athletes. They should not need a Head Coach, other players, or retired babysitter around in order to motivate them to reach the highest level they can reach. If they do, then find a way to get them out of here. Real stars don't need outside motivation.

Why do we put so much blame on on Coaches and other players when the blame should fall on each and every individual player.