Jerry, T.O. Is Not Irvin

[Coy]

Irvin brought more shame to this team than every other player to ever play here combined.

He also brought more superbowls.

 

[5Countem5]

He also brought more superbowls.

True...He did help win.

But the point remains that he heaped more scorn on this franchise than anyone...

 

[Coy]

True...He did help win.

But the point remains that he heaped more scorn on this franchise than anyone...

My point is that this was not the point of the thread, it was about how each player helped the team win.

 

[Beast_from_East]

T.O. is part of Romo's problem. Heck I'd look for Witten too, at least he runs his route, gives effort on every play.


If you really want to gage the value of T.O., put out feelers for a trade and see how many teams come knocking.


Dude has zero trade value, not because his tank is empty, but because his head is.



Cut T.O. and draft a WR to go with what we have. We may not make the playoffs, but at least I won't hate my team as bad.

That is whole problem I have with this "cut TO" debate. Almost everybody that wants him gone point to issues off the field........they want him gone for this or for that or that it will make them feel better.

F-That!!!

I am all about winning and I evaluate players based strictly on PERFORMANCE.........When a player starts sucking on the field is when I release his arse, not because he doesnt talk to all his teammates.


This is not a freaking social club, the players dont have to have sleep overs and eat smores together. This is freaking football and you do your job, period.

If your a defender, you tackle.
If you are an o-lineman, you block.
If you are a WR, you catch the dam ball.
If you are a CB, you break up the pass.

Dont tell me you cant block or tackle or break up a pass because TO hurt your feelings by not talking to you. Grow some balls, do you dam job and stop whinning and making excuses for your own poor arse play.

If some of our players cant handle this, maybe they need to go play soccer........I hear practice is being held on the women's field later today.


Rant Over.

 

[5Stars]

That is whole problem I have with this "cut TO" debate. Almost everybody that wants him gone point to issues off the field........they want him gone for this or for that or that it will make them feel better.

F-That!!!

I am all about winning and I evaluate players based strictly on PERFORMANCE.........When a player starts sucking on the field is when I release his arse, not because he doesnt talk to all his teammates.


This is not a freaking social club, the players dont have to have sleep overs and eat smores together. This is freaking football and you do your job, period.

If your a defender, you tackle.
If you are an o-lineman, you block.
If you are a WR, you catch the dam ball.
If you are a CB, you break up the pass.

Dont tell me you cant block or tackle or break up a pass because TO hurt your feelings by not talking to you. Grow some balls, do you dam job and stop whinning and making excuses for your own poor arse play.

If some of our players cant handle this, maybe they need to go play soccer........I hear practice is being held on the women's field later today.


Rant Over.

:laugh2: Right on, bro!!

 

[Jon88]

Irvin is my all-time favorite Cowboy as well. Down to earth, modest, never celebrated.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Irvin is my all-time favorite Cowboy as well. Down to earth, modest, never celebrated.

Didnt he have a celebration that made news?





hmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

and how many didnt make the news
or someone else that celebrated in his car

 

[Rampage]

Or slicing a guys throat with scissors. Owens is yet to accomplish that.

what has Owens accomplished as a part of a team?

 

[5Countem5]

Irvin is my all-time favorite Cowboy as well. Down to earth, modest, never celebrated.

That was just on a first down....

http://i89.***BLOCKED***/albums/k226/e_lovejones/irvin.jpg

 

[TwoDeep3]

First off, Irvin went to Jimmy to see if he could be traded because of his off-field antics and the press turning on him in Dallas.

But in all of Irvin's picadilloes, he also brought three itty bitty trophoes that T.O. hasn't.

Even an outsider like Dan reeves comments the inner turmoil this management staff is going through on T.O.

I was one of the first to back this player.

Just my opinion, but I think less is more here.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

what has Owens accomplished as a part of a team?

What has Romo?

 

[5Countem5]

First off, Irvin went to Jimmy to see if he could be traded because of his off-field antics and the press turning on him in Dallas.

But in all of Irvin's picadilloes, he also brought three itty bitty trophoes that T.O. hasn't.

Even an outsider like Dan reeves comments the inner turmoil this management staff is going through on T.O.

I was one of the first to back this player.

Just my opinion, but I think less is more here.

So Michael Irvin single-handedly brought in 3 "trophoes" and TO has single-handedly stopped Dallas from winning 3 "trophoes"?

Am I reading you correctly?

 

[TwoDeep3]

So Michael Irvin single-handedly brought in 3 "trophoes" and TO has single-handedly stopped Dallas from winning 3 "trophoes"?

Am I reading you correctly?

There might be a real possibility that without Irvin staying on everyone's butt, Dallas would not have won three.

I really didn't see it this way until I read the book Boys Will Be Boys. The commitment of Irvin both in terms of his behavior on the practice field and in games sells me that he was the heart of the team.

I have said it many times in the past, but perhaps didn't realize how instrumental he was to this team until that book.

The circus surrounding this team now in large part lies at the feet of T.O.

The press manufactures some of their headlines themselves, but far too many comments about how divided this locker room is leaks out from too many sources.

Even Dan Reeves talks about the management being split on T.O.

There has to be one voice that leads an offense. That voice has to be Romo. But if you must temper your thoughts because your wide receiver might go south on the team because of his ego, then changes are in order.

Like I say, I was one of the first on the T.O. band wagon. I believe I even made a post the last half of the season T.O. was in Philly asking what you'd think when T.O. scores his first touchdown for Dallas the next season.

But it doesn't take an insider to know that team work doesn't work if you have one player thinking about himself and he is the focal point of the entire team.

Romo must lead, and I do not believe he can with T.O. on this team. Garrett must lead and if he has to mold his offense around one player because of his temper, then we don't have a team.

But then it's just an opinion.

 

[5Countem5]

There might be a real possibility that without Irvin staying on everyone's butt, Dallas would not have won three.

I really didn't see it this way until I read the book Boys Will Be Boys. The commitment of Irvin both in terms of his behavior on the practice field and in games sells me that he was the heart of the team.

I have said it many times in the past, but perhaps didn't realize how instrumental he was to this team until that book.

The circus surrounding this team now in large part lies at the feet of T.O.

The prerss manufactures some of their headlines themselves, but far too many comments about how divided this locker room is leak out from too many sources.

Even Dan reeves talks about the management being split on T.O.

There has to be one voice that leads an offense. That voice has to be Romo. But if you must temper your thoughts because your wide receiver might go south on the team because of his ego, then changes are in order.

Like I say, I was one of the first on the T.O. band wagon. I believe I even made a post the last half of the season T.O. was in Philly asking what you'd think when T.O. scores his first touchdown for Dallas the next season.

But it doesn't take an insider to know that team work doesn't work if you have one player thinking about himself and he is the focal point of the entire team.

Romo must lead, and I do not believe he can with T.O. on this team.

But then it's just an opinion.

Nice dodge but I remember asking if TO single-handedly had cost Dallas a Super Bowl? You seem to have no problem placing 3 trophies at Irvin's feet to the chagrin of Emmitt, Troy, Jimmy, Haley and many more but can you cast the same blame onto one player?

 

[Joe Realist]

Irvin brought more shame to this team than every other player to ever play here combined.

Irvin was a great player. However, if they ever released that undercover video of him buying coke, he would be in jail and not be in the hall of fame.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Nice dodge but I remember asking if TO single-handedly had cost Dallas a Super Bowl? You seem to have no problem placing 3 trophies at Irvin's feet to the chagrin of Emmitt, Troy, Jimmy, Haley and many more but can you cast the same blame onto one player?

To be sure there were other great players on this team. But you are missing the big picture here.

There is a leader in the locker room on most championship teams. One voice that galvanizes the team and leads them to victory. Not with just deeds on the field, but with true leadership.

Not to say coaches are not important. But players can ignore coaches. We see it here constantly. Even with Jimmy they could miss assignments through not being prepared or allowing emotion to override their job duties.

The team concept, and one the player misses most when the limelight is finally off for him is the camaraderie. But part of that dynamic also has in place the leaders on the field keeping the less skilled focused and working at near 100% to reach the goal.

The battlefield is another place where there are leaders and worker bees. And the events cause them to work as a unit and achieve more than a group of individuals could ever do.

Emmitt wasn't a great leader. Neither was Haley. Aikman was a leader, but he did not command the respect that Irvin did. The guy who was the voice of the team and a guy who all others respected without question.

T.O. is not that self-sacrificing to be anything but for T.O. He may have had a shot at being the ultimate leader of this team when he got here. But that would require him to change his ways.

He elected not to do that.

Discounting what Irvin brought to the team ignores what they accomplished. He had off field issues, but those didn't arise until after he and the team delivered three trophies.

He didn't do it alone. But one has to wonder who would have worn his leadership shoes on this team if they had just a solid wide receiver and not a firebrand that solidified the team concept with every breath he took.

 

[5Countem5]

To be sure there were other great players on this team. But you are missing the big picture here.

There is a leader in the locker room on most championship teams. One voice that galvanizes the team and leads them to victory. Not with just deeds on the field, but with true leadership.

Not to say coaches are not important. But players can ignore coaches. We see it here constantly. Even with Jimmy they could miss assignments through not being prepared or allowing emotion to override their job duties.

The team concept, and one the player misses most when the limelight is finally off for him is the camaraderie. But part of that dynamic also has in place the leaders on the field keeping the less skilled focused and working at near 100% to reach the goal.

The battlefield is another place where there are leaders and worker bees. And the events cause them to work as a unit and achieve more than a group of individuals could ever do.

Emmitt wasn't a great leader. Neither was Haley. Aikman was a leader, but he did not command the respect that Irvin did. The guy who was the voice of the team and a guy who all others respected without question.

T.O. is not that self-sacrificing to be anything but for T.O. He may have had a shot at being the ultimate leader of this team when he got here. But that would require him to change his ways.

He elected not to do that.

Discounting what Irvin brought to the team ignores what they accomplished. He had off field issues, but those didn't arise until after he and the team delivered three trophies.

He didn't do it alone. But one has to wonder who would have worn his leadership shoes on this team if they had just a solid wide receiver and not a firebrand that solidified the team concept with every breath he took.

So TO is solely responsible for Dallas not making the Super Bowl or is he not? It's a pretty easy question.

And how does the guy described by someone (from their recliner) as being only out for himself get voted team captain? Are the players just stupid and can't see in their locker room what you see in your living room?

 

[5Countem5]

By the way, I never once discounted what Irvin brought to the team.

I simply said he brought more shame to this team than every other player combined. I'll stand by that.

 

[TwoDeep3]

So TO is solely responsible for Dallas not making the Super Bowl or is he not? It's a pretty easy question.

And how does the guy described by someone (from their recliner) as being only out for himself get voted team captain? Are the players just stupid and can't see in their locker room what you see in your living room?

Yes, I think T.O. and his attitude has divided the locker room and this team and regardless of all the other negatives, his outweighs them all.

I don't believe this team can win it all with him.

 

[TwoDeep3]

By the way, I never once discounted what Irvin brought to the team.

I simply said he brought more shame to this team than every other player combined. I'll stand by that.

And yet in the time line, his "shame" came after his glory.