Jerry, T.O. Is Not Irvin

[Hostile]

Are you saying any of those got the coverage that Irvin received? I lived in Dallas then and Goodrich's charges and trial got a fraction of the coverage Irvin's drug trial got. A fraction of the coverage when the officer put a hit on him and every other of his sordid events.

Are you saying Landry's Cowboys were looked at like thugs as well based on Septien and Rentzel? Everyone knows individual players may twist off and commit crimes and it wasn't reflected on the team.

Irvin was looked at as the guy promoting thug behavior, like he facilitated it. With Williams paying his way out of a "situation" all the way up to Nate's MJ arrest, Irvin was the posterboy- and rightly so.

Oh so your point is the evil media coverage.

I consider the actual crime as relevant. I mean sex with a 12 year old girl is what I call heinous. Exposing yourself to a 16 year old girl is deviant. Taking two lives is beyond tragic.

But damn the evil media coverage.

 

[5Countem5]

Oh so your point is the evil media coverage.

I consider the actual crime as relevant. I mean sex with a 12 year old girl is what I call heinous. Exposing yourself to a 16 year old girl is deviant. Taking two lives is beyond tragic.

But damn the evil media coverage.

Who said a thing about "evil media coverage" ? I said that MICHAEL IRVIN became the poster boy for Thugville USA right here in Dallas to every man, woman and child who knew anything about football. He got the coverage because he was the draw. The coverage was factual and sensationalized because of who he was and you KNOW that.


Just answer this - Did Rentzel or Septein reflect on the organization like Irvin did?

 

[EPL0c0]

Michael Irvin was the emotional leader of the team.

T.O. is the emotional player on the team.

Michael Irvin was the heart of the franchise.

T.O. is the heart of controversy.

Michael Irvin led by his unflinching desire to win.

T.O. doesn't lead by his unflinching desire to pad his stats.

Michael Irvin spoke out challenging the players on the team to meet his level of commitment.

T.O. doesn't speak to other offensive players except Romo .

Michael Irvin was skilled at using his hands to snatch the ball out of the air.

T.O. uses his hands to club the ball as it passes him by for an incompletion.

Michael Irvin was the reason the team played as a team.

T.O. is the reason there are factions on the squad that are at odds with each other.

Michael Irvin was the major reason this team got to and won Super Bowls.

T.O. is the major reason this team does not win significant games.

Jerry, if you fool yourself into thinking T.O. is Michael Irvin and releasing him would be a major mistake, the only real fool is you.

And if the rumors are true that you are the lone hold out on cutting your loses with T.O., then you are not truly a football man, but an owner that crosses the line because of your hubris.

T.O. is the major reason this team does not win significant games.

Owens is responsible for throwing 6INTs and fumbling the ball away 3 times in the last 4 games????

There are people that *STILL* to this day call them the "Dallas Crackboys"... who was responsible for that?

 

[5Countem5]

There are people that *STILL* to this day call them the "Dallas Crackboys"... who was responsible for that?

Lance Rentzel?

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Who said a thing about "evil media coverage" ? I said that MICHAEL IRVIN became the poster boy for Thugville USA right here in Dallas to every man, woman and child who knew anything about football. He got the coverage because he was the draw. The coverage was factual and sensationalized because of who he was and you KNOW that.


Just answer this - Did Rentzel or Septein reflect on the organization like Irvin did?

Um... oh, never mind.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Its all perception man.

Irvin was a cokehead, that cheated on his wife routinely, bullied guys he didn't think belonged, and in a fit of rage one day sliced a guys throat because he wouldn't get out of a barbers chair.

But he worked harder than anyone else, demanded that guys performed, came up huge in big games, and had a great relationship with his QB.

I'm the same way with Owens, I don't think his distractions deter our success any more than Romo's lackadaisical turnovers, our offensive lines lack of discipline, our secondaries inability to force turnovers, etc. I care about what happens between the white lines on Sundays, and you aren't going to find someone that wants to win more than 81.

Again, you make good points. Here's where we agree: Owens wants very badly to win. Here's where I differ: I don't think wanting to win is enough. I think Owens wants to win. I don't think he has learned how to win, what it takes to be a team player.

Reeves mentioned that point, and it articulated what I have felt. I don't think Owens is, necessarily, a rotten human being. I think there is a hole somewhere in his makeup. At 35, I don't think that will change.

Again, I very much appreciate how you approach these discussions. You aren't inclined to deal in absolutes. You're a thoughtful person. It makes for an enjoyable forum.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Again, you make good points. Here's where we agree: Owens wants very badly to win. Here's where I differ: I don't think wanting to win is enough. I think Owens wants to win. I don't think he has learned how to win, what it takes to be a team player.

Reeves mentioned that point, and it articulated what I have felt. I don't think Owens is, necessarily, a rotten human being. I think there is a hole somewhere in his makeup. At 35, I don't think that will change.

Again, I very much appreciate how you approach these discussions. You aren't inclined to deal in absolutes. You're a thoughtful person. It makes for an enjoyable forum.

The moment I became a huge T.O. fan was when he came back from that painful injury and had a big game in the super bowl. If Peyton Manning does something like that, he's a hero, we're building statues of him outside of Canton, and we're re-writing the bible to squeeze him in.

But Owens did it, for himself? Thats all I heard in the week leading to the super bowl, he's doing this for himself. He goes out there, career on the line with bolts and screws holding his leg below the knee together - and has a huge game against one of the best teams in football.

Then, while he's having one of the most heroic games in NFL history - he looks over at his QB vomiting in the huddle. Ruined his opportunity for redemption. That was the end of his relationship with Donny.

Whether or not he does things for himself, I think the pros outweigh the cons severely when it comes to Owens. Especially for us that don't give two rips about perception, and care about what happens on Sunday.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

The moment I became a huge T.O. fan was when he came back from that painful injury and had a big game in the super bowl. If Peyton Manning does something like that, he's a hero, we're building statues of him outside of Canton, and we're re-writing the bible to squeeze him in.

But Owens did it, for himself? Thats all I heard in the week leading to the super bowl, he's doing this for himself. He goes out there, career on the line with bolts and screws holding his leg below the knee together - and has a huge game against one of the best teams in football.

Then, while he's having one of the most heroic games in NFL history - he looks over at his QB vomiting in the huddle. Ruined his opportunity for redemption. That was the end of his relationship with Donny.

Whether or not he does things for himself, I think the pros outweigh the cons severely when it comes to Owens. Especially for us that don't give two rips about perception, and care about what happens on Sunday.

Here's where we agree: I don't care (much) about perception. It's a football team, not a civic organization.

But there are guys... I'm sure you've known some... it seems wherever they go, whatever they do, they leave a wake of destruction. In many cases, it's impossible to see why they've done it. To me, Owens is one of those guys. I don't get the feeling that even he knows why it happens.

For what it's worth, I shared your admiration for that Super Bowl performance.

 

[5Countem5]

Whether or not he does things for himself, I think the pros outweigh the cons severely when it comes to Owens. Especially for us that don't give two rips about perception, and care about what happens on Sunday.

You think he is a problem like many others do but why is it ,do you suppose, that NOT one player comes out and says that he is problem? Why doesn't Mr. Character, Zach Thomas, who is playing somewhere else next year just get on SportsCenter and say that he is tearing the team up? Why doesn't Brian Stewart who got fired and probably has no love lost with the Cowboys anymore come out and say ,what every reporter hints at , that he is a cancer? And before someone says it they can't, it is common knowledge that you can say all you like about TO, with no repercussions.

Why is it that Bruce Read doesn't say anything, or why doesn't ANY player with character say something? If it was my organization being "torn apart", I'd say something and so would most of you. So Romo, Witten and Ware , who seem to have character, don't say a thing about him EXCEPT that they WANT him playing.

Anyone care to explain this?

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Oh I can do these too. Lets see.



Troy Aikman was the leader of the team.
Tony Romo is the leader of celebrity gossip on the team.

Troy Aikman was a major cog on the offense.
Tony Romo is the major cog for ESPN, Player, etc.

Troy Aikman led by his unflinching desire to win.
Tony Romo doesn't lead by his unflinching desire to win, he has a good life either way.


Emmitt Smith was the leader of the team.
Marion Barber is quiet.

Emmitt Smith was a major cog on the offense.
Marion Barber is only a closer, not a starter.

Emmitt Smith led by his unflinching desire to win.
Marion Barber signs and inflated contract deal.


We can do this with ANY player from past and present.

 

[5Countem5]

Oh I can do these too. Lets see.



Troy Aikman was the leader of the team.
Tony Romo is the leader of celebrity gossip on the team.

Troy Aikman was a major cog on the offense.
Tony Romo is the major cog for ESPN, Player, etc.

Troy Aikman led by his unflinching desire to win.
Tony Romo doesn't lead by his unflinching desire to win, he has a good life either way.


Emmitt Smith was the leader of the team.
Marion Barber is quiet.

Emmitt Smith was a major cog on the offense.
Marion Barber is only a closer, not a starter.

Emmitt Smith led by his unflinching desire to win.
Marion Barber signs and inflated contract deal.


We can do this with ANY player from past and present.

Exactly...

 

[LatinMind]

I disagree with that. He brought 3 rings here, had we not won - then maybe so.

id say emmitt and the OL won those 3 rings. irvin and aikman padded the points. but when dallas was tight vs bills and steelers it was all emmitt and the OL

 

[Mansta54]

I am not an Irvin fan, but I disagree completely.

Rafael Septien and Lance Rentzel both were involved in sexual misconduct with minors. Dwayne Goodrich killed two people (who were trying to be good Samaritans) in a felony hit and run.

Really? This suprises me coming from you. No big deal, I just pegged you as a bigtime Irvin fan cause of the passion, heart, work ethic, and desire he brought to our team. I luv the guy, he's my all time fav Cowboy. I don't know many, or if any, Boyz fans who aren't a big fan of Irvin.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Exactly...

Aikman said, "you dont go to Cabo before a playoff game"

Whether it affected the game or Romo's performance is not the issue.

Perception is not reality BUT perception will ruin/affect your reality.


Aikman -
"To say, 'I don't worry about perception,' you better worry about perception," Aikman said, "because it's a big part of making it through some very difficult times."

 

[Mansta54]

id say emmitt and the OL won those 3 rings. irvin and aikman padded the points. but when dallas was tight vs bills and steelers it was all emmitt and the OL

This is so far from the truth. Irvin brought that will to win and desire to our team. He constantly challenged each and every player to give their all. Troy was a perfectionist and true leader. He and Irvin did more then pad points, they brought a work ethic and mentality to the team that was definately unmatched on other teams.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Oh I can do these too. Lets see.

Emmitt Smith was a diamond surrounded by trash.


Emmitt Smith loved playing dominos.


Emmitt Smith sat out two games before signing a big contract.

Anyone can play that game.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

This is so far from the truth. Irvin brought that will to win and desire to our team. He constantly challenged each and every player to give their all. Troy was a perfectionist and true leader. He and Irvin did more then pad points, they brought a work ethic and mentality to the team that was definately unmatched on other teams.

Dont you just love revisionist history.

By some accounts, Jimmy and Troy and Irvin did very little or were not integral parts of the TEAM success.

 

[Mansta54]

Dont you just love revisionist history.

By some accounts, Jimmy and Troy and Irvin did very little or were not integral parts of the TEAM success.

To say Troy and Irvin just padded pts is flatout ridiculous.... I mean c'mon!! Geez!!!

 

[LatinMind]

This is so far from the truth. Irvin brought that will to win and desire to our team. He constantly challenged each and every player to give their all. Troy was a perfectionist and true leader. He and Irvin did more then pad points, they brought a work ethic and mentality to the team that was definately unmatched on other teams.

that was about the superbowl wins. not about irvins career.

 

[Future]

Owens is the most dangerous WR on this team. Unfortunately he's just as dangerous to the Cowboys as he is to their opponents.

He's like Maverick in Top Gun :laugh2:
Crayton can be Goose because he essentially died on the offense this year
Roy11 can be Sundown b/c he replaces goose