Jimmy Admitted Cheating?

superpunk

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Don't remember hearing about this. Was wondering if anyone knows of any clarification Jimmy made, or anything. There's a flaming Patriots idiot on another forum trying to spin this thing, and right now I'm just ignoring it - but I wonder if there was ever any more printed about this.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=273719
And much of the discussion centered on the notion that cheating is part of the game. For example, FOX's Jimmy Johnson admitted to videotaping coaching signals during his time with the Cowboys, and that he was told about the technique by a Chiefs scout 18 years ago.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?p=1062390841


On Friday, Johnson reiterated his remarks on WFAN in New York, in a spot with Mike Francesa and Chris Russo.

Johnson said that, 18 years ago, a Chiefs scout told him how to do exactly what Belichick did. Though Johnson didn't name the scout when he first mentioned it on FOX, Johnson now says that the scout was the late Mark Hatley.

"I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league," Johnson said. "This was commonplace."


http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...09/17/report_belichick_earns_new_deal/?page=2


After seeing the footage, former Cowboys and Dolphins coach Jimmy Johnson - who works as a host on Fox's pregame show - said on the show: "This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn't think it helped us."
 

Chocolate Lab

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It's true, I saw it on Fox the Sunday after Spygate broke.

But he obviously stopped because he didn't see the value of it.

And most importantly, he wasn't specifically warned by the commissioner to stop doing it, but continued to do it anyway.
 

YosemiteSam

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superpunk;1701188 said:
Don't remember hearing about this. Was wondering if anyone knows of any clarification Jimmy made, or anything. There's a flaming Patriots idiot on another forum trying to spin this thing, and right now I'm just ignoring it - but I wonder if there was ever any more printed about this.

Yeah, this actually had been talked about here on CZ too. I don't remember he saying he video taped them, he just stole the signs, but I could be wrong.
 

PhillyCowboysFan

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former Cowboys and Dolphins coach Jimmy Johnson - who works as a host on Fox's pregame show - said on the show: "This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn't think it helped us."

That is exactly what he said. I thought there would be alot of fallout from his statement, but this is the first I heard any.
 

theogt

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I'm pretty sure the quote is wrong. I don't believe he ever said he "video taped" signals, but they did try to steal signals.

Edit: Oh wait, that quote is from another interview. He didn't say video on Fox.
 

PhillyCowboysFan

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theogt;1701201 said:
I'm pretty sure the quote is wrong. I don't believe he ever said he "video taped" signals, but they did try to steal signals.

Edit: Oh wait, that quote is from another interview. He didn't say video on Fox.

No it's right. He said he tried it but did not think it help!
 

superpunk

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A search revealed this transcript.

Q: How about the spying thing Jimmy. You're a coach does that bother you what Belichick did?

JJ: Oh please. I've said it on our show. Eighteen years ago a scout for the chiefs told me what they did, and he said what you need to do is just take your camera and you go and zoom in on the signal caller and that way you can sync it up. The problem is that if they're not on the press box side you can't do it from the press box, you have to do it from the sideline. This was 18 years ago.

Q: You think the NFL came down too hard on them?

JJ: No, no, I said it on the show. He was wrong for doing it for the simple reason that the league knew this was going on not ust in New England but around the league. And the league sent out the memorandum to all of the teams saying you cannot do this. And os that's when Bill Belichick was wrong. After he got the memorandum saying don't do it any more, he did it.

Q: Did you ever steal signals?

JJ: Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did.

Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?

JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you're going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.

Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?

JJ: Yeah.

Q: Oh you did.

JJ: That's what I'm saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimers scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that's how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.

Q: Where'd you put your guy who was videotaping? Where was he?

JJ: My guy was up with my camera crew in the press box. So you'd just put an extra camera up with your camera crew in the press box who zoomed in on the signal callers. That's the best way to do it, but anyway you can't always do that because the press box camera crew might be on the same side as the opposing team. If they're on the same side as the opposing team that's when you need to do it from the sideline.


Q: Also with some operations and some teams they have equipment set up within the stadium so they can just run it ack and check what's going on during the game anyway.

JJ: Oh I'll tell you [laughing] some of the stuff that goes on it's almost comical.

Q: Jimmy don't you think using contraptions like that goes against the spirit of football?

JJ: Well that's why the league put in that you can't use any electronic equipment, during the game, locker room, press box, sideline, this type of thing. They ruled against it and again that's why Bill Belichick was wrong.


Q: How much of an advantage would it give them?

JJ: Well you know Bradshaw and I had a talk back and forth on this. I did it a few times and then I stopped doing it because I didn't think we got much out of it to be honest with you. But games are so close... If it gives you one single play in the ballgame it might be the difference. But again, he was wrong for doing it after the memorandum was sent out by the league, because the league knew that other teams were doing it. And so... it was a commonplace thing though.


NOTE:
The NFL REINTERPRETED the filming rule THIS past off-season. Therefore, anything that MAY have happened before......
 

Doomsday101

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PhillyCowboysFan;1701209 said:
No it's right. He said he tried it but did not think it help!

That is exactly what I saw and heard on the FOX pre-game a few weeks back. As Jimmy said he did not think it helped so they stopped doing it. As for NE I was upset that the league did not come down on them harder for breaking the rules but it never changed my mind about the quality of that franchise or Belichick because in the end I don't think it helps much at all and most coaches I have listened to have said the same thing it does not help
 

Danny White

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Jimmy didn't cheat because it wasn't against the rules when he did it.

Bellicheck did, because it was against the rules when he did it.
 

YosemiteSam

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Danny White;1701240 said:
Jimmy didn't cheat because it wasn't against the rules when he did it.

Bellicheck did, because it was against the rules when he did it.

Either way, it wasn't in the spirit of the game so it was still wrong. What you are saying is it was OK for Barry Bonds to use HGH because MLB hadn't directly addressed HGH.
 

superpunk

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nyc;1701332 said:
Either way, it wasn't in the spirit of the game so it was still wrong. What you are saying is it was OK for Barry Bonds to use HGH because MLB hadn't directly addressed HGH.

I believe it is still acceptable to do what Jimmy says he did, which is to videotape whatever the hell he wants from the press box (where he said he had his guy stationed) or any under roof structure, but not acceptable to do so from the sideline (what the Pats did.) It still sounds bad, but at least then, the opposition knows where your scout is, and can avoid him.

Maybe I'm wrong on that.
 

fortdick

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Danny White;1701240 said:
Jimmy didn't cheat because it wasn't against the rules when he did it.

Bellicheck did, because it was against the rules when he did it.

So it is strictly a rules thing? I got blasted for suggesting that it was okay for teams to steal signs. Baseball teams usually have one or two guys on the bench concentrating on just that - stealing signs.

I think that stealing signs is perfectly acceptable. It is on the other team to make sure their signs are secure. Everyone thought it was cheating when I said that.

Now, it is okay to steal signs unless the is a new rule that prohibits it. Anything before this year is okay?

Let's try to be consistent folks.
 

Danny White

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nyc;1701332 said:
Either way, it wasn't in the spirit of the game so it was still wrong. What you are saying is it was OK for Barry Bonds to use HGH because MLB hadn't directly addressed HGH.

I'm not going to disagree, because I see your point.

That said, teams and athletes are always looking for a competitive advantage and are always pushing the edge of the envelope as a result.

Just look at golf equipment, NASCAR technology, hockey players customizing their sticks, swimmers shaving every ounce of hair off their bodies, runners wearing body suits, wrestlers starving themselves to "make weight" and then binging afterwards... it's all pushing the limits to get an advantage.

Its eventually up to the league or regulating body to draw a line and decide when a competitive advantage crosses the line into being blatantly unfair or cheating or just plain unhealthy. That's what they did with this video situation last year... they drew a line.

Jimmy and the other coaches years ago who did this are on one side of the line and Belicheck is on the other.
 

YosemiteSam

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superpunk;1701339 said:
I believe it is still acceptable to do what Jimmy says he did, which is to videotape whatever the hell he wants from the press box (where he said he had his guy stationed) or any under roof structure, but not acceptable to do so from the sideline (what the Pats did.) It still sounds bad, but at least then, the opposition knows where your scout is, and can avoid him.

Maybe I'm wrong on that.

I don't see the difference the location of the filming makes, but then if it isn't strickly prohibited, then you aren't breaking the rules. It doesn't make it right, but it's again, it's not strickly prohibited like rebroadcasting NFL games on SopCast! :lmao2:
 

tyke1doe

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nyc;1701332 said:
Either way, it wasn't in the spirit of the game so it was still wrong. What you are saying is it was OK for Barry Bonds to use HGH because MLB hadn't directly addressed HGH.

Two totally different situations.

HGH is a performance-enhancing DRUG. You take it in your off-time. You are also gaining a competitive advantage when others may not be doing the same thing.

Stealing signals happens during the game. And everyone does it or tries to do it in different ways. What are you suppose to do? Turn your head away when a team is signaling in a play? It's part of a game in motion.

I don't think it's cheating because it's happening during the game. It's like hearing a play being called. If you hear it, you use it to your advantage. If you know what signals mean, you used them to your advantage.

Besides, the NFL doesn't have a rule against stealing signals, just the way in which you steal them.
 

khiladi

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You mean today's technology is equivalent to 18 years ago?

Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you're going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.

The accusations levelled against the Patriots are that they deployed their tactics in the middle of the game, and adjustments were made by half-time.

And in the FOX show, all I heard was that Jimmy Johnson admitted to to sending interns into the coaches box and snuffing out the trash. If Jimmy was taping games, than why didn't he say this immediately on the FOX pre-game show? The fact is Jimmy only admitted to taping from the press-box in college, and that is why Barry Switzer didn't employ the same methods when he became the coach of the Cowboys.
 

Dave_in-NC

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Why do people think other teams don't do this or try it? These NFL coaches would do anything to get the upper hand. Big deal.
 

fortdick

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Dave_in-NC;1701442 said:
Why do people think other teams don't do this or try it? These NFL coaches would do anything to get the upper hand. Big deal.

Thank you!

Anyone that wouldn't cheat doesn't want to win bad enough.
 
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