JJT: Cowboys don't have running back to match their philosophy

CowboyRoy

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That's because the more you're behind, the more low-percentage passes you have to make. It's easy to get the cause and the effect reversed.

Yah, that is not always the case. We ran the football more in 2014 because we had success with it. Same goes with the Cowboys of the 90's. We were able to run the ball and it worked. And for the most part, the leads came because of the ability to run. When you can do that, you have a great chance to dominate the game or the opponent. And it opens up the passing attack and keeps your defense rested and off the field. You also keep the opponents offense off the field and limit their possessions which can limit their opportunities to score.

It is not as cut and dry as losing teams pass, leading teams run. Though no doubt, when a team is way behind and the clock is running down towards the end of games, teams are forced to pass. But we have seen many a team behind at half time come out and establish the run game in order to try and get back in it.
 

CowboyRoy

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No. Not because of a running back. That's absurd.

He was healthy because nobody rolled on his collarbone that season.

Romo is, without a doubt, at a point in his career where any one hit can knock him out for the season. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that if you limit the number of drop backs, and the number of 3rd and longs, you limit the number of opportunities for that to happen. And a stout run game is the perfect way to establish that. When Romo runs around and feels like he has to do it all, that is when he is exposed and most at risk. You can make up all the nonsense you want in year head, but its no coincidence that Romo had the best year of his career when we dominated in the run game. Its also no coincidence that we have the best season in some 7 years and went 12-4. Blow all the smoke you want about your theory that passing wins in the NFL. It does, but when you add a dominant run game to it, it protects the QB, protects a bad D, and makes you a much better team.

Give me 3rd and 2 all day long over 3rd and 8.
 

CowboyRoy

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From some of the comments Linehan has said, it sounds like their philosophy is what we did in 2014 and we lost our way.

Yah, Jerry lost our way. He decided that McFadden and Underwear boy could replace Murray. Not smart. And many on here called the entire off season before it happened. While others kept telling us that we would be just fine in the run game.
 

DandyDon52

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Yep, I am still trying to figure the ever changing philosophy. 5 years ago, Jerry had this theory that "with a QB like Romo you can afford to go cheap on the Oline". Well, when he finally figured out what a dumb theory that was he used 3 out of our next 4 first round picks on the Oline and has made it the best in the NFL. Now his new theory is "with a line like ours, you can go cheap at RB". Now he hasnt actually said it, but its pretty obvious.

Jerry just doesnt get it. That much is quite clear. When you have the best line in the NFL you should compliment that strength with a back that will accentuate that strength. If you dont, then you are to some degree wasting the Oline. Only Jerry Jones could be that dumb when it comes to football.

Yeah I agree. They should have gone cheap at WR and saved the 13 mil.
 

DandyDon52

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Yah, Jerry lost our way. He decided that McFadden and Underwear boy could replace Murray. Not smart. And many on here called the entire off season before it happened. While others kept telling us that we would be just fine in the run game.

yes garrett wanted to keep murray, so did tony and others, but the jones boys and Murray himself messed that up.

And some still say our run game was A ok in 2015
I like Morris and McF, but it isnt like having a top grade RB.
 

JoeBoBBY

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He's one of me least favorite reporters! Ever!

I like JJT. A lot. I think he gets it and isn't afraid to say what is on his mind. And he is exactly right in this article......

Although, I do have some hope for Alfred Morris. I will be rooting for Alfred more then anybody this coming season...I like this signing by the FO.
 

CowboyRoy

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yes garrett wanted to keep murray, so did tony and others, but the jones boys and Murray himself messed that up.

And some still say our run game was A ok in 2015
I like Morris and McF, but it isnt like having a top grade RB.

I am not a big Murray fan. Not with his injury history and his mediocre vision. But I would would have kept him for the right price. I was very happy when they let him walk and didnt give him a big contract. But their choice of who they replaced him with was just horrid. And it didnt take a genius to see it. Now I guess one could say in the 2nd half of the year, McFadden performed solid. But we had to change the blocking scheme to get there. Even so, I dont like McFadden and the chances of him staying healthy again arent good.

My biggest beef is that they didnt replace Murray with a quality back. We need a great back with this line to truly bring out the benefits. And Romo and any young QB in the future will need a great run game to lean on. I like Morris, but he is clearly a stop gap.
 

percyhoward

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Yet, when the Cowboys do it the result was s -4-2 season.
I'm giving you the evidence that explains the 4-12 season. If you can't be bothered to try to understand this evidence, I'll put it as plainly as I can.

28 teams ranked higher than the Cowboys in passer rating differential, and only 8 teams had more rushing yards.

28 teams had better records than the Cowboys.
 

percyhoward

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Romo is, without a doubt, at a point in his career where any one hit can knock him out for the season. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that if you limit the number of drop backs, and the number of 3rd and longs, you limit the number of opportunities for that to happen. And a stout run game is the perfect way to establish that. When Romo runs around and feels like he has to do it all, that is when he is exposed and most at risk. You can make up all the nonsense you want in year head, but its no coincidence that Romo had the best year of his career when we dominated in the run game. Its also no coincidence that we have the best season in some 7 years and went 12-4. Blow all the smoke you want about your theory that passing wins in the NFL. It does, but when you add a dominant run game to it, it protects the QB, protects a bad D, and makes you a much better team.

Give me 3rd and 2 all day long over 3rd and 8.
This post has a lot of truth in it, and is a rarity at the Zone, because while it overstates the role of the running game in 2014, it does so only slightly.

Limiting Romo's dropbacks: Over his career up until 2014, Romo had averaged 17 pass attempts in the first half of games. In 2014, he averaged 18 pass attempts. So we were running more, but since we were also punting less, we had more plays. Although the pass/run ratio was not as pass-heavy as it had been, the direct result of running more was actually an increase in Romo's dropbacks in the first half. Since we had more leads that year, Romo didn't throw it nearly as much in the second half, so you could argue that running the ball more was one of the reasons we had the lead, and that this indirectly limited his dropbacks. Of course, simply playing better on offense and defense was what gave us more leads, and there are many, many factors involved in what made us a better team in 2014 that go beyond running more. In any case, we certainly didn't build our leads by throwing less.

Limiting 3rd and longs: In 2013, Dallas' average 3rd-down distance to go ranked 26th. In 2014, it ranked 7th. But maybe an even better comparison is 2013 (26th) vs. 2015 (17th). Our 2015 offense without Romo (and with McFadden) was better than the 2013 version with Romo at limiting 3rd and long situations. There is no doubt that committing to the run allowed this team to get into more favorable distances on 3rd down, even with a backup QB. But if the team was better at limiting 3rd-down distances in 2015 than in 2013, that also means you're overestimating the effect those shorter distances had on our offense.

1st & 2nd down play selection (scoring rank)
2013: Romo 60% pass (4th)
2014: Romo 44% pass (2nd)
2015: others 51% pass (27th)

The 2013 version with Romo ranked 4th in scoring (per drive), mostly by avoiding 3rd downs altogether. The 2015 offense without Romo (with its shorter 3rd-down distances) ranked 27th in scoring. Obviously, the ideal situation was 2014 (Romo + commitment to the run) when we ranked 2nd in scoring. The point here is that, while both Romo's presence and the commitment to the run make a difference, the much bigger difference is Romo.

In the last 8 games of 2014, when defenses were playing honest, and Murray wasn't getting as many yards as he had in the first 8, we kept running the ball on 1st down -- not because it left us with more favorable distances on 2nd down, but because we knew Romo could get us out of trouble if our 1st-down run failed. Which it did quite often in the second half of 2014, when Murray averaged only 3.9 yards per 1st-down run.

RB's avg on 1st-down run (QB's rating on 2nd down)
2013: Murray 5.4 (Romo 102.1)
2014 (g 1-8): Murray 5.8 (Romo 87.3)
2014 (g 9-16): Murray 3.9 (Romo 142.1)
2015: McFadden 4.6 (Cassel 30.0)

There's a lot to see there. Without a doubt, it shows that when defenses were forced to play honest in the second half of 2014, it opened up the passing game. By running so often on 1st down all year long, we gradually reached a point midway through the season where we could take advantage of defenders who could no longer cheat toward the pass. Notice that Murray's average went down almost a full two yards per carry -- while Romo's rating skyrocketed and our scoring went up.

Over his career, Romo was already the best in the league on 2nd and long going into 2014. And that was against defenses that were playing pass. That 142.1 rating is what happens when you put the best in the league in that situation up against defenses that now also have to think about the run. Anybody who thinks it doesn't matter how often you run the ball would have a hard time explaining these 2014 numbers.

I think it also shows (again) how important the passing game is, no matter who's running the ball. McFadden faced defenses that were focused solely on stopping the run, and I don't think he would have had any problem adding an extra yard to his average if he'd played an entire season with a healthy Romo to keep defenses honest. Assuming McFadden avoided injury, I also don't doubt that his average would have gone down if he'd been used as often as Murray was on 1st down. But would it have gone down two full yards, as Murray's did? And maybe more importantly, would it really have mattered if it did?
 

DandyDon52

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This post has a lot of truth in it, and is a rarity at the Zone, because while it overstates the role of the running game in 2014, it does so only slightly.

Limiting Romo's dropbacks: Over his career up until 2014, Romo had averaged 17 pass attempts in the first half of games. In 2014, he averaged 18 pass attempts. So we were running more, but since we were also punting less, we had more plays. Although the pass/run ratio was not as pass-heavy as it had been, the direct result of running more was actually an increase in Romo's dropbacks in the first half. Since we had more leads that year, Romo didn't throw it nearly as much in the second half, so you could argue that running the ball more was one of the reasons we had the lead, and that this indirectly limited his dropbacks. Of course, simply playing better on offense and defense was what gave us more leads, and there are many, many factors involved in what made us a better team in 2014 that go beyond running more. In any case, we certainly didn't build our leads by throwing less.

Limiting 3rd and longs: In 2013, Dallas' average 3rd-down distance to go ranked 26th. In 2014, it ranked 7th. But maybe an even better comparison is 2013 (26th) vs. 2015 (17th). Our 2015 offense without Romo (and with McFadden) was better than the 2013 version with Romo at limiting 3rd and long situations. There is no doubt that committing to the run allowed this team to get into more favorable distances on 3rd down, even with a backup QB. But if the team was better at limiting 3rd-down distances in 2015 than in 2013, that also means you're overestimating the effect those shorter distances had on our offense.

1st & 2nd down play selection (scoring rank)
2013: Romo 60% pass (4th)
2014: Romo 44% pass (2nd)
2015: others 51% pass (27th)

The 2013 version with Romo ranked 4th in scoring (per drive), mostly by avoiding 3rd downs altogether. The 2015 offense without Romo (with its shorter 3rd-down distances) ranked 27th in scoring. Obviously, the ideal situation was 2014 (Romo + commitment to the run) when we ranked 2nd in scoring. The point here is that, while both Romo's presence and the commitment to the run make a difference, the much bigger difference is Romo.

In the last 8 games of 2014, when defenses were playing honest, and Murray wasn't getting as many yards as he had in the first 8, we kept running the ball on 1st down -- not because it left us with more favorable distances on 2nd down, but because we knew Romo could get us out of trouble if our 1st-down run failed. Which it did quite often in the second half of 2014, when Murray averaged only 3.9 yards per 1st-down run.

RB's avg on 1st-down run (QB's rating on 2nd down)
2013: Murray 5.4 (Romo 102.1)
2014 (g 1-8): Murray 5.8 (Romo 87.3)
2014 (g 9-16): Murray 3.9 (Romo 142.1)
2015: McFadden 4.6 (Cassel 30.0)

There's a lot to see there. Without a doubt, it shows that when defenses were forced to play honest in the second half of 2014, it opened up the passing game. By running so often on 1st down all year long, we gradually reached a point midway through the season where we could take advantage of defenders who could no longer cheat toward the pass. Notice that Murray's average went down almost a full two yards per carry -- while Romo's rating skyrocketed and our scoring went up.

Over his career, Romo was already the best in the league on 2nd and long going into 2014. And that was against defenses that were playing pass. That 142.1 rating is what happens when you put the best in the league in that situation up against defenses that now also have to think about the run. Anybody who thinks it doesn't matter how often you run the ball would have a hard time explaining these 2014 numbers.

I think it also shows (again) how important the passing game is, no matter who's running the ball. McFadden faced defenses that were focused solely on stopping the run, and I don't think he would have had any problem adding an extra yard to his average if he'd played an entire season with a healthy Romo to keep defenses honest. Assuming McFadden avoided injury, I also don't doubt that his average would have gone down if he'd been used as often as Murray was on 1st down. But would it have gone down two full yards, as Murray's did? And maybe more importantly, would it really have mattered if it did?

Percy you put too much faith and emphasis on stats !
Stats are generalizations, and all generalizations are false (or inaccurate to some degree) including this one.

Stats dont tell you anything about the 4th qtr drive in Seattle where it was just all hand it off to murray which led to a 14 yd td run,
and a win against the SB champs, and best run defense.
See your stats show murrays run avg, but doesnt take into account the various situations, or how good the other teams run defense was etc.

The Seattle game, established many things, murray as a legit top back, and threat, Dallas as a contender, as a strong run team,
as a team that now had confidence in themselves, and as a running team.


Murray is gone now, so I now accept that, but it was a huge mistake, to not sign him to a contract,8 mil was market value, with some backs making more.
and as we now see, if dallas had signed murray and then he had a bad year here, and they want to unload him, philly showed just how easy that is.
Had they signed murray 2015 would have been different, and Romo would not have got hurt on the play in philly.
He might have got hurt in some other game or maybe not at all.
Just signing murray would have led to a different unfolding of events.

And then if it looked like he wasnt worth the money they could have unloaded him.
Had he played for dallas last year, he would have had a much better season, maybe not like 2014, but a good season.
Then he would have been easier to unload if they wanted to.

Philly got rid of him after he had a horrible year ! I read he only had 40 snaps the last 5 games, and by that I dont mean carries, but
just on the field 40 times!

I sometimes wonder if the plan by lurie all along, was just get murray away from dallas, keep him one year then dump him
to some other team and div, with AFC being the best scenario.
That would disable dallas, they would have to recover, and opened the door for philly, but chip couldnt get it done with
Dallas and other 2 so weak , chip did not win the div, and so he was fired.
 

DandyDon52

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I am not sure I follow you here.

I meant maybe dez was not worth the big contract he got.
People say murray was injury prone , but last year Dez hurt his foot, ankle , and knee, and missed half the games, and was less than
ordinary when he was in the games.

With Romo at QB he makes guys like beasly, williams, L. Robinson etc look good, so does he make Dez look better than he is?
With no Romo Dez has looked ordinary or worse.

I am curious to see which dez shows up in 2016, 2014 dez or 2015 dez?
 

percyhoward

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Stats dont tell you anything about the 4th qtr drive in Seattle where it was just all hand it off to murray which led to a 14 yd td run, and a win against the SB champs, and best run defense. Your stats show Murray's run avg, but doesn't take into account the various situations, or how good the other teams run defense was etc.
So show some specific situations, address strength of opponent, and make a point.
 

CowboyRoy

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I meant maybe dez was not worth the big contract he got.
People say murray was injury prone , but last year Dez hurt his foot, ankle , and knee, and missed half the games, and was less than
ordinary when he was in the games.

With Romo at QB he makes guys like beasly, williams, L. Robinson etc look good, so does he make Dez look better than he is?
With no Romo Dez has looked ordinary or worse.

I am curious to see which dez shows up in 2016, 2014 dez or 2015 dez?

I agree with you there. Dez seemed very paltry without Romo. He was sluggish and seemed disinterested and pouting most of the time when he was playing. Not what you would expect from a franchise cornerstone. Not the true kind of leader you need for your football team in my opinion. Long on skill, short on mental and leadership abilities.
 

big dog cowboy

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Murray is gone now, so I now accept that, but it was a huge mistake, to not sign him to a contract,8 mil was market value

Since when has $8M been market value for above average RB's? The huge mistake would have been to actually cave in and give Murray that kind of money. He simply isn't worth that.
 

ErikWilliamsHeadSlap

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I meant maybe dez was not worth the big contract he got.
People say murray was injury prone , but last year Dez hurt his foot, ankle , and knee, and missed half the games, and was less than
ordinary when he was in the games.

With Romo at QB he makes guys like beasly, williams, L. Robinson etc look good, so does he make Dez look better than he is?
With no Romo Dez has looked ordinary or worse.

I am curious to see which dez shows up in 2016, 2014 dez or 2015 dez?

Antonio Brown looked ordinary without Ben.
 

ConceptCoop

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I meant maybe dez was not worth the big contract he got.
People say murray was injury prone , but last year Dez hurt his foot, ankle , and knee, and missed half the games, and was less than
ordinary when he was in the games.

With Romo at QB he makes guys like beasly, williams, L. Robinson etc look good, so does he make Dez look better than he is?
With no Romo Dez has looked ordinary or worse.

I am curious to see which dez shows up in 2016, 2014 dez or 2015 dez?

He put up big numbers without Romo in the past. If he does prove to be injury prone - then of course that's an issue and could prevent him from being worth the contract. But it's far too early to jump to that conclusion.
 

Hoov

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This post has a lot of truth in it, and is a rarity at the Zone, because while it overstates the role of the running game in 2014, it does so only slightly.

Limiting Romo's dropbacks: Over his career up until 2014, Romo had averaged 17 pass attempts in the first half of games. In 2014, he averaged 18 pass attempts. So we were running more, but since we were also punting less, we had more plays. Although the pass/run ratio was not as pass-heavy as it had been, the direct result of running more was actually an increase in Romo's dropbacks in the first half. Since we had more leads that year, Romo didn't throw it nearly as much in the second half, so you could argue that running the ball more was one of the reasons we had the lead, and that this indirectly limited his dropbacks. Of course, simply playing better on offense and defense was what gave us more leads, and there are many, many factors involved in what made us a better team in 2014 that go beyond running more. In any case, we certainly didn't build our leads by throwing less.

Limiting 3rd and longs: In 2013, Dallas' average 3rd-down distance to go ranked 26th. In 2014, it ranked 7th. But maybe an even better comparison is 2013 (26th) vs. 2015 (17th). Our 2015 offense without Romo (and with McFadden) was better than the 2013 version with Romo at limiting 3rd and long situations. There is no doubt that committing to the run allowed this team to get into more favorable distances on 3rd down, even with a backup QB. But if the team was better at limiting 3rd-down distances in 2015 than in 2013, that also means you're overestimating the effect those shorter distances had on our offense.

1st & 2nd down play selection (scoring rank)
2013: Romo 60% pass (4th)
2014: Romo 44% pass (2nd)
2015: others 51% pass (27th)

The 2013 version with Romo ranked 4th in scoring (per drive), mostly by avoiding 3rd downs altogether. The 2015 offense without Romo (with its shorter 3rd-down distances) ranked 27th in scoring. Obviously, the ideal situation was 2014 (Romo + commitment to the run) when we ranked 2nd in scoring. The point here is that, while both Romo's presence and the commitment to the run make a difference, the much bigger difference is Romo.

In the last 8 games of 2014, when defenses were playing honest, and Murray wasn't getting as many yards as he had in the first 8, we kept running the ball on 1st down -- not because it left us with more favorable distances on 2nd down, but because we knew Romo could get us out of trouble if our 1st-down run failed. Which it did quite often in the second half of 2014, when Murray averaged only 3.9 yards per 1st-down run.

RB's avg on 1st-down run (QB's rating on 2nd down)
2013: Murray 5.4 (Romo 102.1)
2014 (g 1-8): Murray 5.8 (Romo 87.3)
2014 (g 9-16): Murray 3.9 (Romo 142.1)
2015: McFadden 4.6 (Cassel 30.0)

There's a lot to see there. Without a doubt, it shows that when defenses were forced to play honest in the second half of 2014, it opened up the passing game. By running so often on 1st down all year long, we gradually reached a point midway through the season where we could take advantage of defenders who could no longer cheat toward the pass. Notice that Murray's average went down almost a full two yards per carry -- while Romo's rating skyrocketed and our scoring went up.

Over his career, Romo was already the best in the league on 2nd and long going into 2014. And that was against defenses that were playing pass. That 142.1 rating is what happens when you put the best in the league in that situation up against defenses that now also have to think about the run. Anybody who thinks it doesn't matter how often you run the ball would have a hard time explaining these 2014 numbers.

I think it also shows (again) how important the passing game is, no matter who's running the ball. McFadden faced defenses that were focused solely on stopping the run, and I don't think he would have had any problem adding an extra yard to his average if he'd played an entire season with a healthy Romo to keep defenses honest. Assuming McFadden avoided injury, I also don't doubt that his average would have gone down if he'd been used as often as Murray was on 1st down. But would it have gone down two full yards, as Murray's did? And maybe more importantly, would it really have mattered if it did?

Thanks Percy,

Lot of good info there for an overall perspective.
 
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