Before I say anything else, let me say that I do think that Harbaugh is a good coach. I'm not saying he isn't. I brought him up initially because another poster asked why some coaches win quickly and Garrett hasn't been to the playoffs yet, so I brought up the most often mentioned coach when that comes up. Jim Harbaugh.
Harbaugh is a good coach... but he did have a lot of good players when he coached his first game in SF.
There's a lot of fail in this post, not the least of which is your oversight of players (on your list) that were either drafted by Harbaugh or signed as a Free Agent. You make it sound like he inherited this talented group and while he did inherit some key pieces, so did Garrett and any other NFL coach.
In the post you quoted I said: "
His roster was pretty much set the day he coached his first game for the niners."
That isn't talking about Harbaugh's ability to scout talent or bring it in, just what he had in his first game coached there. As I mentioned, I had originally posted it because the guy I was responding to was asking why some guys don't take 4 years to win, so I responded by saying that Harbaugh had a much better roster to begin his career than Garrett did. That is what I showed by providing a list of the talent that Harbaugh started with.
It was kind of up to the reader to determine if they thought the players were actually that talented. I think it was a good roster, but the reader would, I assumed, make their own judgement.
I wasn't talking about if new GM Trent Baalke (because he came in at the same time as Harbaugh and was responsible for the draft and free agency) brought any of those guys in.
Alex Smith is no longer on the team and he drafted Kaepernick. This may be the single biggest event that takes any team to the top, drafting a franchise QB. Smith was doing well for Harbaugh but he decided to go with Kap after Smith was injured and STAY with him when Smith was healthy again. That's a gutsy move after Smith led the team to a 13 and 3 record and a trip to the NFC title game. Harbaugh didn't inherit Kap, he drafted him. You can't just make it sound like the guy stepped into a ready made situation at the most important position on the team.
Like I said, that is the two QB prospects that Harbaugh had from day 1. That is all I said.
Not sure why you think it is important that Smith isn't with the team any more. He still is playing for a playoff team in the NFL and he played damn well for Harbaugh, leading his team to the 13-3 record that you yourself mentioned.
I guess you could call it a gutsy decision to stick with Colin Kapernick after Smith got healthy... but it isn't like he sat Smith down healthy and went with Kap. He had no choice but to go with Kap when Smith got hurt and it didn't take a genius to see that Kap was playing well. A lot of coaches would likely have stuck with the hot hand in the middle of a season. Then, traded Smith for what you could get... which is what Harbaugh did.
That still has nothing to do with Smith and Kap being on the roster for Harbaugh's first game in SF.
Solid group to be sure but if you're going to mention Goodwin in that bunch, then mention that he was signed by Harbaugh and he's no longer on the team.
Uh, ok. The one guy that did come in after Harbaugh arrived in January (Goodwin) has already been cut. The guys that were there in 2010, he kept.
I don't see how that helps your argument, but whatever.
Frank Gore had a season ending injury in 2010 and was still extended by Harbaugh in 2011 and Hunter was drafted by Harbaugh; again, another situation where you make it sound like he stepped into a player from day 1.
How in the hell did he not step in to Gore who had been there for years? A blind idiot would have known to resign Frank Gore.
And again, the guy that you so want to show came in after Harbaugh (Hunter) has been cut.
All you're showing so far is that the guys drafted prior to 2011 are guys that were keepers and that the one's Baalke and Harbaugh brought in aren't.
This is where you get ridiculous. Michael Crabtree was bordering on bust status and has had his ONLY 1000 yard season under Harbaugh in 2012. Crabtree was a huge question mark at that point. And did you really mention Ted Ginn? He of 12 receptions for 163 yards?
I really don't know any other way to say that I was listing who was on their opening day roster for 2011. Where did I say that any individual was anything? I just listed the fairly well known guys and left off most of the unknowns.
How is listing guys on his opening day roster ridiculous? You should read what is written and not try to guess at what is being said.
If you think there wasn't a lot of talent on his opening day roster, then address that, because that is what I was saying. All the rest of this muck is just posturing.
Would I have wanted Crabtree over Dez? Hell no. I would have taken him over every other WR that Garrett had that year though. Edwards and Ginn would have been much better than Austin and Ogletree.
Garrett inherited infinitely better in Miles Austin, Crayton, RW, Laurent Robinson, Dez Bryant, etc. I mean, even Kevin Ogletree and Jessie Hollie had more receiving yards than Ginn for goodness sake. And Ginn took a better than 50% pay cut in 2011 to 1 million dollars. Needless to say, this talented WR is no longer with SF.
Infinitely better? Good Lord. Talk about ridiculous. Here are the WR's who were on Dallas' opening day roster in 2011: Dez, Austin, Kevin Ogletree, Patrick Crayton, Jesse Holly, Laurent Robinson (really signed on sept. 7th)Sam Hurd, Roy Williams, Manuel Johnson, and Titus Ryan.
Ryan, Ogletree, Holley, Hurd, and Johnson were flat out jokes as NFL players. Austin was trending down before Garrett ever took over and Williams and Crayton were flat out done. All that group did was take a chunk of salary cap space. It was a group that Garrett would have to completely redo minus Dez.
And Braylon Edwards? Really again? Harbaugh signed Edwards in 2011 for 1 million dollars and was waived in December of that year.
Jim Harbaugh just called and he said please stop trying to help him... you're just making him look bad.
So out of the 3 players you gave to support your position, two are no longer with the team.
Like I might have mentioned a time or two, I was listing who was on the opening day roster.
So you didn't like Harbaugh's WR group. For the love of Pete, just say that.
Is this the uncoachable malcontent? Davis is in his 9th year and has barely broken 5000 receiving yards.
Um, ok, Vernon Davis sucks.
Poor Harbaugh having to use such a terrible TE.
Give me Witten all day, every day. And Delanie Walker? He's not even with SF any longer and the didn't even crack 200 yards in 2011. Give me Martellus Bennett and I feel like I'm going to burn for saying that. I mean, there's not enough arms in the stadium to cover that reach.
If you would rather have Marty B than Delanie Walker, I don't even know what to say. It is no wonder you think San Francisco's talent wasn't good when Harbaugh took over.
Walker was the only player on the Titans who could even hurt Dallas when we played them this year. He is a hell of a player.
And yes, he is no longer on the 49'ers. I'm not sure why you keep saying that like it matters.
Ray McDonald had had 0 starts in 3 out 4 years with the team before Harbaugh showed up. He had a total of 3, 20, 6 and 13 tackles in those 4 years prior to Harbaugh. Harbaugh kept and extended him and made him a starter; he’s had his best years under Harbaugh
As long as we agree that he was there when Harbaugh came in, that's all I'm saying.
…might coaching have something to do with it or is that just a coincidence?
I've already stated that I think Harbaugh is a good coach. I never said he wasn't. Again, you're reading into things people write what they haven't said.
Justin Smith is a monster, no doubt but Issac Sopoaga is no longer with the 9ers and no longer in the NFL.
Yes, yes... no longer there.
A good bunch to be sure but Bowman has thrived under Harbaugh but, none the less, he was a good young player. And if you're going to include Aldon Smith in that bunch, you need to mention that he was drafted by Harbaugh and not inherited.
Yes, drafted by Baalke. Where did I say he wasn't?
Ridiculous and I mean shockingly ridiculous that you'd mention this bunch. Goldson is no longer with the team. Carlos Rodgers? Really? He was signed by Harbaugh in 2011 and released after the 2013 season. Whitner was also signed by Harbaugh in 2011 and CJ Spillman was a ST and situational player who couldn't lock down a starting position (sound familiar?). Madeue Williams was also signed by Harbaugh in 2011 and lasted 1 year. So out of the 5 players you mentioned, 3 were signed by Harbaugh and 4 are no longer with the team. That kind of goes against your whole point that Harbaugh inherited some talented players.
So, it was mainly guys that came in when Harbaugh was coach that are no longer with the team.
And again, ridiculous is that you didn't even mention the group that I was comparing it to: Terence Newman, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick, Mike Hamlin, Cletus Gordon, Brian McCann, Danny McCray, Gerald Sensabaugh, Jamar Wall, and Patrick Watkins.
So, yes Carlos Rodgers. Goldson. Whitner. Madeue Williams.
They were much better than what Garrett had, which is all I was trying to show. Not that San Francisco would keep their DB's for ever and ever and never cut them or that they were all pro bowlers.
It really isn't difficult.
I guess it never hurts to add a few more names to add some fluff to your theory but you just might burn for including kickers. In any event, Akers was signed by Harbaugh and is no longer with the team and Andy Lee is a good punter.
That is who Harbaugh had to kick and punt in 2011.
I'd imagine you're probably going to have to reanalyze your post and give it some more thought. Many of the players you mentioned were either signed or drafted under the Harbaugh regime and some others are no longer with the team. So to claim that he started with a leg up on Garrett because his roster was "pretty much set" is kind of inaccurate when you consider that many of the folks you listed were, in fact, brought in by the new coach. In addition, that roster was so "set" that many of those players are no longer with the team.
Even though I was only talking about their opening day roster, if it will make you happy, I will break down who was there in 2010 and who wasn't.
Of the list that I made of the Niner players, here is who came in after Jim was hired:
QB Colin Kapernick (draft)
OL Jonathan Goodwin (free agent)
RB Kendall Hunter (draft)
WR Braylon Edwards (free agent)
LB Aldon Smith (draft)
CB Carlos Rodgers (free agent)
S Donte Whitner (free agent)
S Madeue Williams (free agent)
K David Akers (free agent)
Here are the guys from that list that was there prior to Harbaugh:
QB Alex Smith
OL Alex Boone
OL Anthony Davis
OL Mike Iupati
OL Joe Staley
RB Frank Gore
WR Michael Crabtree
WR Ted Ginn
TE Vernon Davis
TE Delanie Walker
DL Ray McDonald
DL Justin Smith
DL Issac Sopoaga
LB Navorro Bowman
LB Ahmad Brooks
LB Patrick Willis
SS Dashon Goldson
S CJ Spillman
P Andy Lee
I don't see how that helps you though because really everyone but Aldon Smith is much less impressive than the list of guys he walked in to. Many of the second group of guys is core players who have been to pro bowls.
Frankly, it doesn't look like Baalke is doing as good a job as the guys who were there before him.
They were coming off a 6 and 10 season. I'm not sure how anyone can claim that they had the right culture in place or the roster was good from day 1. I mean, really, that's a stretch and flies in the face of logic. What facts do you base that on, especially when the HC gets fired after a 6 and 10 season?
I was talking about the fact that SF had a taskmaster in 2010 in Mike Singletary and that Dallas has notorious cupcake Wade Phillips letting the inmates run the asylum.
Singletary wasn't a good coach but he had gotten rid of some of the guys who weren't tough guys before Harbaugh got there. So yeah, he could have been weeding out the malcontents for 3 years but still not been able to win.
Phillips had a team of players who managed to quit on him in the middle of a season. And he's had that everywhere he's been a head coach.
This is a joke, right? Harbaugh has been 13 and 3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 in his 3 regular seasons. He's taken the 9ers to 3 straight NFC title games and one Superbowl appearance. So "compare" that with what Garrett has done in Dallas. And if those HC stats belonged to Garrett, I wouldn't give to ****s as a fan if there were rumblings out of the locker room. I mean, who cares?
I hate Harbaugh and I hate the 9ers. But I just don't know how any sane fan can "compare" these two HC records and claim Garrett is ahead of the curve.
Harbaugh has had very good records there for his three seasons... but if you can't see the team is trending in the wrong direction then that explains why you don't know what I mean. They aren't as good, although they are still good. There are rumblings of trouble behind the scenes and yes, that leads to an eventual collapse of the regime.
But, if you don't see it that way, then good for you.
So we're a better 8 and 8 team last year than we were 3 years ago. Got it. Aim high, Asthma, aim high.........
This is just silly. It isn't a difficult concept that the 2013 team that went 8-8 was a better team than the one that went 8-8 in 2012. Schedules are different. Teams in the division are different... for that matter every team is different every year. The 2013 team had fewer holes than the 2011 and 2012 teams.
And what has that got to do with aiming high? I just said it was improving. Not that I or anyone aspired to be 8-8. It looks like you were just looking to take a shot there.