Joe Gibbs - The greatest coach in the history of the NFC East?

KJJ

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Oh, I went back and read it. You didn't read my post which stated MIGHT be the greatest coach ever and you COULD certainly MAKE the argument. Maybe you should read the article I attached which certainly MAKES the argument. THE REASON your stupid lits never list him as best ever is PLAIN AN SIMPLE COWBOYS BIAS. STUFF that in your pipe and smoke it and STOP replying to me. This whole debate is again OFFENSIVE to me as an NFL FAN let alone a Cowboys Fan.

AND if LOMBARDI (you know the coach he's MENTIONED WITH IN the article) hadn't DIED when he did it would not be CALLED that. So sad your wordview is so narrow.

BYE GIRL. GIRL BYE.

I read your post and never claimed you said Landry was the greatest coach ever I said it would be virtually impossible to make an argument that he was. You claimed an argument could be made in favor of Landry as the greatest coach ever but hard to make that argument when Lombardi built a greater dynasty in Green Bay than Landry built in Dallas. Care to deny that? Lombardi's Packers beat Landry's Cowboys in the only 2 title games they ever faced each other. If you think all these coaching polls that have Lombardi ranked ahead of Landry are all based on bias you're kidding yourself. Landry's teams of the 60's were trumped by Lombardi's great Packers teams. Landry's teams of the 70's were trumped by Noll's great Steeler teams that won 4 SB's including 2 against Landry's Cowboys.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Tom Landry he was one of the greatest coaches ever but his teams could never beat the "great" teams when it was all on the line. His teams couldn't outlast the Packers of the 60's, the 70's Steelers and the 80's 49ers. Every decade Landry coached was dominated by a team not named the Cowboys. Landry's teams lost some historic games and the coaches he lost to in those games are ranked ahead of him by many. It has nothing to do with bias you're the one who's biased. Now pick up your ball recess is over and get back to class!
 

HoustonSucks

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I read your post and never claimed you said Landry was the greatest coach ever I said it would be virtually impossible to make an argument that he was. You claimed an argument could be made in favor of Landry as the greatest coach ever but hard to make that argument when Lombardi built a greater dynasty in Green Bay than Landry built in Dallas. Care to deny that? Lombardi's Packers beat Landry's Cowboys in the only 2 title games they ever faced each other. If you think all these coaching polls that have Lombardi ranked ahead of Landry are all based on bias you're kidding yourself. Landry's teams of the 60's were trumped by Lombardi's great Packers teams. Landry's teams of the 70's were trumped by Noll's great Steeler teams that won 4 SB's including 2 against Landry's Cowboys.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Tom Landry he was one of the greatest coaches ever but his teams could never beat the "great" teams when it was all on the line. His teams couldn't outlast the Packers of the 60's, the 70's Steelers and the 80's 49ers. Every decade Landry coached was dominated by a team not named the Cowboys. Landry's teams lost some historic games and the coaches he lost to in those games are ranked ahead of him by many. It has nothing to do with bias you're the one who's biased. Now pick up your ball recess is over and get back to class!

Dude, you can go on and on and on. Basically YOUR criteria of what makes a GREAT coach is different than MINE. And different than others who agree with me. YES you can make the argument he was the BEST EVER BASED ON INNOVATION to the game. He BUILT the modern NFL along WITH Lombardi. Championships make a coach great these days. BUT BACK IN THE DAY it was the innovations and creativity that I CONSIDER to be great. I urge EVERYONE to read the article I posted to really see that this game would not be what it is without TOM LANDRY. THE END.
 

Redball Express

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I pointed out earlier that Gibbs won 3 SB's with 3 average QB's that's a big reason he's so highly regarded. Lombardi, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh and Belichick all built HOF coaching careers with HOF QB's. Belichick flopped in Cleveland not having a great QB and was 5-11 his first year in NE with Bledsoe. He started off 0-2 his second season and everything changed when Bledsoe went down and Brady took over. There's been head coaches have one great season and win a championship with an average QB due to being led by a great defense but to win 3 SB's with 3 different insignificant QB's and do it with the strength of your team being on offense is pretty remarkable. Gibbs had some scary offenses led by 3 QB's who will never sniff the HOF. Some are trying to take away from his 2 SB wins during the strike seasons but those were probably the most difficult seasons to come away with a championship. When you have a labor dispute that puts your team at home and away from your facility for several weeks that can totally derail a season. It takes some real coaching to be able to regroup after a long stoppage in play and be the last team standing when it's all said and done.

It can be hard to get back on track after 7 weeks off which is what happened during the 82 season. In 87 everyone had to come up with a scab team to try and keep their season afloat. In both strike seasons Gibbs kept his teams together better than anyone else and that's a credit to him as a coach. Landry maintained championship caliber teams into the early 80's but the game was passing him by and the younger coaches like Vermeil, Gibbs and Walsh were out coaching him in championship games. Those 3 consecutive title game losses during the early 80's didn't help Landry's career especially the way the rest of the 80's ended up for him. The Cowboys started falling apart during that decade which led to some embarrassing losses including a 44-0 debacle to the 85 Bears. Landry ended up with a 3-13 team by 1988 and was fired. Two things that hurt Landry's career some was the way he handled the Staubach/Morton QB situation in the early 70's by having them rotate between plays and not being able to settle on one until the team called a meeting with him and demanded he pick a QB.

Even Staubach criticized how he handled that situation saying it made Landry look bad. Another thing that hurt Landry was his stubbornness on breaking away from his Flex defense that got eaten up by Bill Walsh's West coast offense in the 81 title game. Even his own players including Charlie Waters was trying to get him to drop that defense. Landry losing championship games to Lombardi twice, Noll twice, Gibbs and Walsh has many putting him behind those coaches because championships do matter and they matter a lot to a coaches legacy. Head coaches are judged by wins and championships. Lombardi tops most of the all-time coaching rankings and his name is engraved on the trophy that's handed out after the SB because his teams won 5 championships.

All important contributions.

Actually..

What I admire about Gibbs was his success in a completely unrelated sport of major auto racing.

I was a pro photographer back in those days working for several racing publications and racetracks and met him at several NASCAR races and he was an intense dude.

Many of Landry's players never completely agreed with him.

Craig Morton would certainly be one of them. But when he had to played Dallas in the SB..

Landry had his number and Morton had to admit he was not going to succeed against him.

But I will still take Landry over Gibbs.

Sorry.

Heck..

I'd take Jimmy Johnson over Gibbs.

And thanx for the reply.

Good stuff.

(grin)
 
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KJJ

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Dude, you can go on and on and on. Basically YOUR criteria of what makes a GREAT coach is different than MINE. And different than others who agree with me. YES you can make the argument he was the BEST EVER BASED ON INNOVATION to the game. He BUILT the modern NFL along WITH Lombardi. Championships make a coach great these days. BUT BACK IN THE DAY it was the innovations and creativity that I CONSIDER to be great. I urge EVERYONE to read the article I posted to really see that this game would not be what it is without TOM LANDRY. THE END.

The criteria I'm providing is the same criteria most experts would provide and it hasn't changed over the decades. Lombardi is regarded by most as the greatest coach in NFL history due to his Packers dominance during the 60's that won 5 championships. No where in the article you posted did the writer claim or attempt to make an argument that Landry was a greater coach than Lombardi. Both Landry and Lombardi were innovative but a head coaches career is defined by their W/L record and championships. Championships made coaches great decades ago and it's the same today which is why Belichick is being compared to Lombardi. The SB trophy is named after Lombardi for several reasons detailed in the article below. It was mostly due to Lombardi's Packers winning the first 2 SB's outscoring both their opponents by a 68-24 margin.

Lombardi always played to win even in preseason where he had a preseason winning percentage of .842 winning 42 of 50 preseason games but it was the postseason where Lombardi really stood out. His Packers were 9-1 (.900 winning percentage) plus 5 NFL titles including the first 2 SB's. Lombardi's .728 regular season winning percentage was higher than Shula, Landry, Halas and Lambeau and all those coaches had issues in postseason. Shula was 19-17 in the postseason with a 2-4 SB record and Landry was 20-16 in the postseason with a 2-3 SB record. No coach was more dominant than Lombardi over their head coaching tenure. He never had a losing season and never won fewer than 7 games in a 12 game season. The bottom line is Vince Lombardi is the benchmark for all that the NFL stands for in coaching.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1199530-why-its-called-the-vince-lombardi-trophy
 

perrykemp

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When did this thread turn from Landry vs Gibbs to Landry vs Lombardi?
 

KJJ

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When did this thread turn from Landry vs Gibbs to Landry vs Lombardi?

Like all threads it evolved into that because naturally in a discussion like this someone is going to claim Landry was not only better than Gibbs but try and make an argument he was the greatest coach ever.
 

5Stars

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Like all threads it evolved into that because naturally in a discussion like this someone is going to claim Landry was not only better than Gibbs but try and make an argument he was the greatest coach ever.

Yeah, they are just FANS, huh? It must hurt the hell out of you when so many FANS on a Cowboy forum root FOR the Cowboys and don't agree with most of your complaining about what other FANS think.

And then, here you are using the term "argument" which is your only reason to come here. smh
 

NIBGoldenchild

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For those who want to take away two of Gibbs SBs in strike shortened seasons, tell me: were the other coaches on strike too? Did Gibbs not do a better job coaching up his scabs and eventually his regular players on short notice than his colleagues? Did he not have to get his regular players ready against other regular players in the SB? Only fans of other teams in NFC East bother to make this silly argument, you don't see other fans from different divisions bothering to diminish Gibbs accomplishments. This is a really stupid argument, based in nothing but a dislike for a division rival and reaching for any ridiculous excuse to justify it.
 
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