Joe Gibbs - The greatest coach in the history of the NFC East?

[5Stars]

A great coach, Gibby, would have known that you cannot call time out two times in a row. He needs to stick to racing cars!

 

[Iago33]

He couldn't be forgetting what he did in NY if he considers him one of the all-time great coaches. Coaching the Giants is where he established himself as a great NFL coach.

If he had caried his 1980s success through the nineties with the Giants instead of going off to build teams and move on, he'd be higher on my NFCE list. I have trouble putting Jimmy too high because of his lack of longevity, too. Maybe I factor longevity too much--maybe it's my Landry bias. ...

 

[KJJ]

If he had caried his 1980s success through the nineties with the Giants instead of going off to build teams and move on, he'd be higher on my NFCE list. I have trouble putting Jimmy too high because of his lack of longevity, too. Maybe I factor longevity too much--maybe it's my Landry bias. ...

I also value longevity which is one of the reasons I put Landry on top but Parcells winning two SB's with two different QB's neither of which were great QB's is a pretty impressive accomplishment. If Parcells isn't in your top five who is?

 

[Iago33]

I also value longevity which is one of the reasons I put Landry on top but Parcells winning two SB's with two different QB's neither of which were great QB's is a pretty impressive accomplishment. If Parcells isn't in your top five who is?

After honestly reassessing my list, I couldn't put him lower than fourth. Landry and Gibbs are 1 and 2. Coughlin, Parcells and Johnson would finish out the list. The second tier are great coaches, but they lack longevity at one place. I guess I misspoke. My bad.

 

[HoustonSucks]

Late to this party but even the title of this thread offends me. Landry might be the greatest coach EVER. You can certainly make the arguement. Freaking joke....

 

[Cowboy06]

You would have Landry second to Parcells? Or did you mean Coughlin?

I wouldn't have Landry second to Parcells or Coughlin...But I do love Parcells.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Jimmy may have ADHD and flew the coop too soon, but his team would have beaten all the other coaches best teams.

Jimmy J.
Tom L.
Bill P.
Joe G.
Tom C.

 

[KJJ]

After honestly reassessing my list, I couldn't put him lower than fourth. Landry and Gibbs are 1 and 2. Coughlin, Parcells and Johnson would finish out the list. The second tier are great coaches, but they lack longevity at one place. I guess I misspoke. My bad.

When you said Parcells wouldn't make your top 5 I was thinking you might have snuck Andy Reid in which wouldn't have made sense with no championship on his resume. One real impressive thing about Parcells he was an NFL head coach for 19 years with 4 teams and never got fired not even Tom Landry could say that.

 

[punchnjudy]

Explanation?

The Commanders were better at putting together a strike season than many other clubs. They had one of the better replacement teams based on the foresight and insight of Bobby Beathard, who along with Jack Kent Cooke looking to field a team of replacements before the strike occurred. The Skins replacement team went undefeated, winning three games and beating the Cowboys, who had several team members cross the picket line.
The Commanders didn't have any players cross over, and that team unity - coupled with a replacement roster that didn't lose a game - factored into Washington taking the top seed, IMO.

So, in summary, because the strike season altered the game in that all the regulars for all teams didn't play the full season and some teams benefited from their replacements than others, I conclude that it benefited the Skins more than other clubs. Just because you had a talented regular squad doesn't necessarily mean you can overcome a break in the season. Winning is as much about luck as it is about opportunity, cohesion as a unit, etc.

Having said that, I still have Gibbs second to Landry. I think Gibbs was a GREAT coach. I just happen to see Landry as a legend. Landry is up there with Lombardi, Brown, Halas and Shula. I just don't see Gibbs as a legend like I see Landry.

Agreed. More people would recognize Landry's silhouette than would recognize Gibbs if he were in their living room. And it's not like Landry inherited a popular franchise that gave him instant recognition among casual fans; he helped make it that way. In terms of notoriety, Gibbs isn't even in Landry's league.

To look at it another way: the Carolina Panthers have been around 20 years. If, within that time frame, a head coach had played a large part in making them the most popular franchise in football (possibly sports), I'd have to say, at a minimum, that he was the best coach in that division. Stephen A Smith is full of crap.

 

[KJJ]

Late to this party but even the title of this thread offends me. Landry might be the greatest coach EVER. You can certainly make the arguement. Freaking joke....

Only on a Cowboys board would an argument be made for Landry as the greatest coach ever. We're currently debating whether he was better than Joe Gibbs. Would be virtually impossible to make an argument for Landry at the very top of the NFL's greatest coaching list. Lombardi would clearly be ranked ahead of him with his 5 championships in Green Bay and his 2 title game wins over Landry. Most would have Chuck Noll ranked ahead of Landry due to Nolls 2 SB wins over Landry and his 4 SB wins vs Landry's 2 SB wins. Noll's 70's Steelers dynasty was greater than Landry's 70's Cowboys dynasty it's not even debatable. I've seen many polls with Don Shula ranked ahead of Landry due to Shula's great undefeated Dolphins team in 72 and the fact Shula won more games than Landry.

I've even seen many arguments that Bill Walsh was a greater coach than Landry due to Walsh's 81 title game win over Landry and Walsh's 3 SB wins. Some have Belichick ranked ahead of all those coaches with his 4 SB wins and 6 SB appearances. Landry's 2-3 SB record hurts him and the fact he only won a couple of SB's in 29 seasons despite having so many good teams. Landry's teams lost a bunch of title games so although he was one of the all-time great NFL coaches he would have a tough time cracking the top 5 all-time list. The link below is an all-time head coaching ranking by ESPN they have Landry ranked 8th.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/feature/index?page=greatestcoaches

 

[HoustonSucks]

Only on a Cowboys board would an argument be made for Landry as the greatest coach ever. We're currently debating whether he was better than Joe Gibbs. Would be virtually impossible to make an argument for Landry at the very top of the NFL's greatest coaching list. Lombardi would clearly be ranked ahead of him with his 5 championships in Green Bay and his 2 title game wins over Landry. Most would have Chuck Noll ranked ahead of Landry due to Nolls 2 SB wins over Landry and his 4 SB wins vs Landry's 2 SB wins. Noll's 70's Steelers dynasty was greater than Landry's 70's Cowboys dynasty it's not even debatable. I've seen many polls with Don Shula ranked ahead of Landry due to Shula's great undefeated Dolphins team in 72 and the fact Shula won more games than Landry.

I've even seen many arguments that Bill Walsh was a greater coach than Landry due to Walsh's 81 title game win over Landry and Walsh's 3 SB wins. Some have Belichick ranked ahead of all those coaches with his 4 SB wins and 6 SB appearances. Landry's 2-3 SB record hurts him and the fact he only won a couple of SB's in 29 seasons despite having so many good teams. Landry's teams lost a bunch of title games so although he was one of the all-time great NFL coaches he would have a tough time cracking the top 5 all-time list. The link below is an all-time head coaching ranking by ESPN they have Landry ranked 8th.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/feature/index?page=greatestcoaches

BULL SHYOU KNOW THE REST

I didn't even bother to read your post in it's entirety b/c frankly I don't care. The man made lasting innovations to the game. Did Joe Gibbs make lasting innovations to the game? Did Joe Gibbs have a plethora of winning football season - what was it 30? Give me a break it's not even DEBATEABLE and shove your who has the most superbowl fisting pumping up the you know what. I'm sick of superbowls being the ONLY desgination of what is great in the minds of this current generation - and this coming from a fan of a team that has 5. So therefore I am NOT arguing with you b/c there IS no argument. Landry is a LEGEND who helped MAKE the NFL what it is today. Tex Schram deserves credit as well but as far as COACHING goes, you can NOT compare the likes of Landry and that man from Greenbay as my father called him - Lombardi to any modern era coach and I consider Gibbs part of the modern era. Period the end. So don't bother to reply to this b/c I'm not getting into the debate as the fact that this even this is even being deabted again completely offends me. Ridiculous. Bye Felicia.

Here's some light reading for you:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/lombardi-landry-and-the-invention-of-modern-football

 

[KJJ]

BULL SHYOU KNOW THE REST

I didn't even bother to read your post in it's entirety b/c frankly I don't care. The man made lasting innovations to the game. Did Joe Gibbs make lasting innovations to the game? Did Joe Gibbs have a plethora of winning football season - what was it 30? Give me a break it's not even DEBATEABLE and shove your who has the most superbowl fisting pumping up the you know what. I'm sick of superbowls being the ONLY desgination of what is great in the minds of this current generation - and this coming from a fan of a team that has 5. So therefore I am NOT arguing with you b/c there IS no argument. Landry is a LEGEND who helped MAKE the NFL what it is today. Tex Schram deserves credit as well but as far as COACHING goes, you can NOT compare the likes of Landry and that man from Greenbay as my father called him - Lombardi to any modern era coach and I consider Gibbs part of the modern era. Period the end. So don't bother to reply to this b/c I'm not getting into the debate as the fact that this even this is even being deabted again completely offends me. Ridiculous. Bye Felicia.

Here's some light reading for you:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/lombardi-landry-and-the-invention-of-modern-football

Why get so offensive? I've already stated I'm not putting Gibbs ahead of Landry but see if you can find an all-time NFL coaching ranking that isn't heavily Cowboy biased that has Landry ranked as the #1 all-time greatest head coach.

 

[tyke1doe]

This is quite a stretch though. So on one hand, it's unfair teams had to use scab players, on the otherhand, the Commanders had an advantage because of team unity since the scabs played together?

And then when all the teams got their regular players back the Skins still won the SB?

Sorry, but this logic is squirrely.

To you, maybe.
But we watch games not just because of our team, but because our team has good players.
Any time a team does field its starters or the players who are suppose to play, that team is not playing its best and the quality of the product suffers.
The Commanders won three games with replacement players. That factored into their drive to the Super Bowl. Had the strike not happened we don't know of another team would have emerged as the Super Bowl winner.
What makes the NFL appealing is that the best square off every Sunday. That did not happen during the strike season. The Commanders may have taken advantage of the strike, but they weren't playing with their best for three games. And neither were most other teams.

 

[KJJ]

I didn't even bother to read your post in it's entirety b/c frankly I don't care. The man made lasting innovations to the game. Did Joe Gibbs make lasting innovations to the game? Did Joe Gibbs have a plethora of winning football season - what was it 30? Give me a break it's not even DEBATEABLE and shove your who has the most superbowl fisting pumping up the you know what. I'm sick of superbowls being the ONLY desgination of what is great in the minds of this current generation - and this coming from a fan of a team that has 5. So therefore I am NOT arguing with you b/c there IS no argument. Landry is a LEGEND who helped MAKE the NFL what it is today. Tex Schram deserves credit as well but as far as COACHING goes, you can NOT compare the likes of Landry and that man from Greenbay as my father called him - Lombardi to any modern era coach and I consider Gibbs part of the modern era. Period the end. So don't bother to reply to this b/c I'm not getting into the debate as the fact that this even this is even being deabted again completely offends me. Ridiculous. Bye Felicia.

Here's some light reading for you:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/lombardi-landry-and-the-invention-of-modern-football

You didn't bother to read my post in its entirety because the truth hurts. You won't find anyone in the know who has Landry ranked ahead of Lombardi. I have great respect for Tom Landry he was a great coach so save your offensive remarks but championships do matter which is why the trophy handed out after the SB is called the Lombardi trophy.

 

[blindzebra]

Imagine that KJJ trolling another thread putting down Cowboys fans.

 

[burmafrd]

You didn't bother to read my post in its entirety because the truth hurts. You won't find anyone in the know who has Landry ranked ahead of Lombardi. I have great respect for Tom Landry he was a great coach so save your offensive remarks but championships do matter which is why the trophy handed out after the SB is called the Lombardi trophy.

actually you are the joke for claiming only you have the facts. Anyone not football smart enough to realize how good Tony Romo is has nothing at all to say that anyone would believe.
Your BS is getting real thin.

 

[Redball Express]

Is it really that outrageous a claim? Gibbs has won 3 SBs. Landry 2. Gibbs winning percentage is .621 (and that includes that stupid comeback in the early 2000s). Landry's is .605.

Landry does have him on NFC titles - he has 5 to Gibb's 4.

The missing number is years as a HC.

When you talk about greatness..length of career AND records has to come onto the qualification.

A George Halas or a Paul Brown is considered great for both reasons.

Landry and Lombardi and Gibbs certainly are the higher stars in the NFL Universe.

No argument.

But Gibbs?

He did it within a much shorter period and did it with players that carried over from team to team to accomplish it.

Landry on the other hand did it for 20+ years with 3 distinctly different teams from 1961 on.

Little different common denominator from a Gibbs.

Another factor is the number of coaches that came from Landry to coach in the NFL and succeed.

Reeves..Ditka, numerous others as assistant coaches under Tom.

I do not recall any coaches under Gibbs who came slose.

 

[KJJ]

The missing number is years as a HC.

When you talk about greatness..length of career AND records has to come onto the qualification.

A George Halas or a Paul Brown is considered great for both reasons.

Landry and Lombardi and Gibbs certainly are the higher stars in the NFL Universe.

No argument.

But Gibbs?

He did it within a much shorter period and did it with players that carried over from team to team to accomplish it.

Landry on the other hand did it for 20+ years with 3 distinctly different teams from 1961 on.

Little different common denominator from a Gibbs.

Another factor is the number of coaches that came from Landry to coach in the NFL and succeed.

Reeves..Ditka, numerous others as assistant coaches under Tom.

I do not recall any coaches under Gibbs who came slose.

I pointed out earlier that Gibbs won 3 SB's with 3 average QB's that's a big reason he's so highly regarded. Lombardi, Landry, Shula, Noll, Walsh and Belichick all built HOF coaching careers with HOF QB's. Belichick flopped in Cleveland not having a great QB and was 5-11 his first year in NE with Bledsoe. He started off 0-2 his second season and everything changed when Bledsoe went down and Brady took over. There's been head coaches have one great season and win a championship with an average QB due to being led by a great defense but to win 3 SB's with 3 different insignificant QB's and do it with the strength of your team being on offense is pretty remarkable. Gibbs had some scary offenses led by 3 QB's who will never sniff the HOF. Some are trying to take away from his 2 SB wins during the strike seasons but those were probably the most difficult seasons to come away with a championship. When you have a labor dispute that puts your team at home and away from your facility for several weeks that can totally derail a season. It takes some real coaching to be able to regroup after a long stoppage in play and be the last team standing when it's all said and done.

It can be hard to get back on track after 7 weeks off which is what happened during the 82 season. In 87 everyone had to come up with a scab team to try and keep their season afloat. In both strike seasons Gibbs kept his teams together better than anyone else and that's a credit to him as a coach. Landry maintained championship caliber teams into the early 80's but the game was passing him by and the younger coaches like Vermeil, Gibbs and Walsh were out coaching him in championship games. Those 3 consecutive title game losses during the early 80's didn't help Landry's career especially the way the rest of the 80's ended up for him. The Cowboys started falling apart during that decade which led to some embarrassing losses including a 44-0 debacle to the 85 Bears. Landry ended up with a 3-13 team by 1988 and was fired. Two things that hurt Landry's career some was the way he handled the Staubach/Morton QB situation in the early 70's by having them rotate between plays and not being able to settle on one until the team called a meeting with him and demanded he pick a QB.

Even Staubach criticized how he handled that situation saying it made Landry look bad. Another thing that hurt Landry was his stubbornness on breaking away from his Flex defense that got eaten up by Bill Walsh's West coast offense in the 81 title game. Even his own players including Charlie Waters was trying to get him to drop that defense. Landry losing championship games to Lombardi twice, Noll twice, Gibbs and Walsh has many putting him behind those coaches because championships do matter and they matter a lot to a coaches legacy. Head coaches are judged by wins and championships. Lombardi tops most of the all-time coaching rankings and his name is engraved on the trophy that's handed out after the SB because his teams won 5 championships.

 

[HoustonSucks]

You didn't bother to read my post in its entirety because the truth hurts. You won't find anyone in the know who has Landry ranked ahead of Lombardi. I have great respect for Tom Landry he was a great coach so save your offensive remarks but championships do matter which is why the trophy handed out after the SB is called the Lombardi trophy.

Oh, I went back and read it. You didn't read my post which stated MIGHT be the greatest coach ever and you COULD certainly MAKE the argument. Maybe you should read the article I attached which certainly MAKES the argument. THE REASON your stupid lits never list him as best ever is PLAIN AN SIMPLE COWBOYS BIAS. STUFF that in your pipe and smoke it and STOP replying to me. This whole debate is again OFFENSIVE to me as an NFL FAN let alone a Cowboys Fan.

AND if LOMBARDI (you know the coach he's MENTIONED WITH IN the article) hadn't DIED when he did it would not be CALLED that. So sad your wordview is so narrow.

BYE GIRL. GIRL BYE.

 

[HoustonSucks]

actually you are the joke for claiming only you have the facts. Anyone not football smart enough to realize how good Tony Romo is has nothing at all to say that anyone would believe.
Your BS is getting real thin.

Holla. I was going to point to his Romo bias but didn't. Thanks for doing it for me.