Johnson: Just how much weight did he gain?

[burmafrd]

Wiegman is good but he gets abused and needs a lot of help from the guards.
Just like most small centers do. Kendall is not all that good. I think you have to be at least 295 or so to really be able to handle things in the middle of the line. If you give away too much weight you have to be the best technician in the NFL to not get overwhelmed. And while a lot of that can be learned- some of it - like with Step- is just a gift you either have or haven't.

 

[Mash]

Johnson is what he is....

a average center.....he could put on another 100lbs....it wouldn't matter

 

[DLCassidy]

There are many centers that are playing under 300, including most of teams that are considered very good blocking units. Weight it not the end all at playing OL or center and when you’re getting pushed around a lot of that does go back to technique. Just 1 example is Casey Wiegmann 6-2 285 with KC, I don’t see him getting pushed around by NT

It's not the end all but all other things being equal it's a big factor. Wiegmann is a very good player but he would be a monster with more height and weight. This from his scouting report : "He can get out-sized at the point of attack. Will play a little too wide based in-line. He can give ground vs. bull rushers".

This is Johnson's full scouting report from Scouts, Inc, I highlighted the parts I found most interesting.

"Plays with good leverage and is fundamentally sound. Uses hands fairly well and does a nice job of helping guards before sliding off to pick up a linebacker at the second level. Takes good angles to his blocks, plays under control space and is an effective downfield blocker. As a pass blocker, keeps head up, shows great awareness and picks up line stunts and blitzes well. However, Johnson isn't a powerful drive blocker. Lacks the lower body strength to regularly push the pile in the running game, struggles when massive two-gap defensive ends line up directly over his head and is somewhat of a liability in short-yardages".

 

[Doomsday101]

Wiegman is good but he gets abused and needs a lot of help from the guards.
Just like most small centers do. Kendall is not all that good. I think you have to be at least 295 or so to really be able to handle things in the middle of the line. If you give away too much weight you have to be the best technician in the NFL to not get overwhelmed. And while a lot of that can be learned- some of it - like with Step- is just a gift you either have or haven't.

I'm not talking about giving up a lot of weight but this stuff about well Johnson added weight and now things will be alright is a crock, he has to do better from technique stand point and nothing Step did was god given he learned it and worked on it

 

[Doomsday101]

It's not the end all but all other things being equal it's a big factor. Wiegmann is a very good player but he would be a monster with more height and weight. This from his scouting report : "He can get out-sized at the point of attack. Will play a little too wide based in-line. He can give ground vs. bull rushers".

This is Johnson's full scouting report from Scouts, Inc, I highlighted the parts I found most interesting.

"Plays with good leverage and is fundamentally sound. Uses hands fairly well and does a nice job of helping guards before sliding off to pick up a linebacker at the second level. Takes good angles to his blocks, plays under control space and is an effective downfield blocker. As a pass blocker, keeps head up, shows great awareness and picks up line stunts and blitzes well. However, Johnson isn't a powerful drive blocker. Lacks the lower body strength to regularly push the pile in the running game, struggles when massive two-gap defensive ends line up directly over his head and is somewhat of a liability in short-yardages".

Guys I'm not saying size does not matter it does but it is not just about size. johnson is big enough that he should not have been getting pushed back, but when defensive lineman get inside of you they have the leverage and they will move you back and I don't care how much weight you have. Just as it is with power lifting I have seen small guys lift a lot of weight because they get leverage.

 

[burmafrd]

Johnson only got raped by the really big guys- if he is within 20 lbs of them he can handle it. Its when the 330-340 llb guys hit him that he got raped.

 

[Mash]

I dont think Step had to handle monster DT's like Johnson does....and there is more pressure D played now a days.

I loved Step and his technique was great....but what do you expect when you smoke weed....

Your right....Step was a very good center for us....he fit in well here...when he left thru FA....I didnt think he played as well.

 

[Doomsday101]

Johnson only got raped by the really big guys- if he is within 20 lbs of them he can handle it. Its when the 330-340 llb guys hit him that he got raped.

Believe what you want but that does not change the fact that when guys get under you they will move you out of there regardless of what kind of weight you have. I want to see Johnson add strenght and some weight but if he does not do a better job of getting leverage on DL-man he will continue to get beat it is as simple as that.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

I'm not convinced Johnson was 100% from his knee last year...I think this off-season is his first where he is 100% back and is able to add the right type of weight and strength. He did not look strong last year...even if he weighed 320 he did not look strong last year.

I personally think we will see a completely different player this year. He has very good technique and adding more strength will turn him into the player we all thought we had.

 

[DLCassidy]

Pit Jeff Hartings 6-3 299 "Can lock on but he is not very explosive or powerful. Can have anchor issues in pass pro vs. a big and powerful NT".

NYJ Pete Kendall 6-5 280 "Is strong and tough but lacks great overall bulk. Won't overpower or pancake many defenders."

Sea Robbie Tobeck 6-4 297 "Is undersized, doesn't get great pop at the point of attack and must play with leverage or he will pushed back into the play. Doesn't have the lower body strength to consistently get movement in the running game and will struggle when a nose tackle lines up over his head".

TB John Wade 6'5" 299 "He is not a power player, and when he plays high he can really get knocked back by bull rushers or strong run defenders".

Ind Jeff Saturday 6-2 295 "His biggest weakness is that he is not very strong".

There's some good players here but they could all benefit from more size and strength, just like Johnson. Agreed?

 

[Doomsday101]

There's some good players here but they could all benefit from more size and strength. Agreed?

I agree but these are teams not suffereing from their poor play but I'm seeing Johnson coming up high out of his stance and Dlineman getting to his inside and pushing the crap out of him and that is not going to cut it. You add 20 pounds and what you get is 20 extra pounds getting pushed into Bledsoe lap. He has to do better from a techinque stand point and while the scouting report coming out of college indicates one thing Johnson is not playing with good techinque in the NFL and that has to change.

 

[DLCassidy]

I agree but these are teams not suffereing from their poor play but I'm seeing Johnson coming up high out of his stance and Dlineman getting to his inside and pushing the crap out of him and that is not going to cut it. You add 20 pounds and what you get is 20 extra pounds getting pushed into Bledsoe lap. He has to do better from a techinque stand point and while the scouting report coming out of college indicates one thing Johnson is not playing with good techinque in the NFL and that has to change.

Johnson was not a huge problem last year, he was mediocre. He allowed one sack for the season. Again, if you can show a link to anything that shows Johnson plays with poor leverage or technique I'd like to read it but I don't believe it. I just printed one report that says otherwise. His problem plain and simple is he lacks strength. Added bulk will almost certainly help. And it would help every one of the undersized centers you listed who not coincidentally all suffer from problems anchoring against bigger players and getting a push in the run game. Most of the list you made have far more experience than Johnson so they've learned to make do a bit better than he has with their lack of bulk but as you can see it's still an issue, that and 295 or 299 ain't 280.

 

[Doomsday101]

Johnson was not a huge problem last year, he was mediocre. He allowed one sack for the season. Again, if you can show a link to anything that shows Johnson plays with poor leverage or technique I'd like to read it but I don't believe it. I just printed one report that says otherwise. His problem plain and simple is he lacks strength. Added bulk will almost certainly help. And it would help every one of the undersized centers you listed who not coincidentally all suffer from problems anchoring against bigger players and getting a push in the run game. Most of the list you made have far more experience than Johnson so they've learned to make do a bit better than he has with their lack of bulk but as you can see it's still an issue, that and 295 or 299 ain't 280.

Your printing college scouting reports this is not college, not directly giving up a sack but having a pocket collapse or RB with DL in the backfield is a lot to overcome and yes he was part of that. I don't mean for it to sound as if it were only Johnson having a rough time others did as well and the worst in my opinion was Tucker thank goodness that hack is gone.

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't think Johnson's issues are technique related. If indeed he was playing 280-290 last year he was giving away 30-40 pounds to a lot of NT's. Guys are a LOT bigger now than when Step was playing. Technique will get you just so far- that's why middleweights don't fight heavyweights.

Yes, but it is more about how the two combine. A great center -- like Mawae in his prime could dominate at a lower weight b/c he had excellent technique. Johnson plays at that weight and his technique is good but not great. That is where the size comes in. A bigger guy (or technically a stronger guy) is going to be able to make up for technical errors with raw power. Johnson didn't have that to fall back on.

 

[Doomsday101]

Even his college scouting report indicates what I'm talking about

Negatives: Gives up his chest a bit, which allows defenders to knock him off stride … Shows some body softness in his midsection … Does not have the bulk teams find ideal in a center, which prevents him from exploding with his hips the way he should … Needs to play at a lower pad level as he gets a little too high in his stance, but uses his long arms, leg base and angle blocks to compensate.

Again I'm not opposed at all with him adding weight I think that is a good thing but at least from what I saw his problems were not all weight related getting up high out of your stance will allows the defensive lineman a big advantage in the NFL.

 

[DLCassidy]

Your printing college scouting reports this is not college

No, I'm not. All the scouting reports are up to date on all the players you posted. You however posted a college report which I agree is irrelevant.

 

[Doomsday101]

No, I'm not. All the scouting reports are up to date on all the players you posted. You however posted a college report which I agree is irrelevant.

Hey if you can't see Johnson coming up high out of his stance after snapping the ball then fine, I have seen it quite a bit from Johnson and if he continue to do that even added weight is not going to be a big help. If I can knock you off balance and get under you then it does not matter if you out weigh me. In this league all of these guys are pretty darn good and while I agree more weight would be a help it is not a cure all for Johnson and yes with better techique I think he could do a much better job even without the weight. Add to that the poor exchange with Bledsoe I think forced Johnson to slow up a tick and that could be causing problems with coming out of his stance a bit slow and high

 

[CowboyManDan]

Might have already been mentioned, in this thread, but Stepnoski should be the example Johnson studies. Step was smaller than Johnson (I think?) but his technique was obviously very good and made up for his size.

 

[DLCassidy]

Yes, but it is more about how the two combine. A great center -- like Mawae in his prime could dominate at a lower weight b/c he had excellent technique. Johnson plays at that weight and his technique is good but not great. That is where the size comes in. A bigger guy (or technically a stronger guy) is going to be able to make up for technical errors with raw power. Johnson didn't have that to fall back on.

Some improvements in technique happen simply with experience. It's a little unfair to talk about Mawae or most of the other centers Doomsday listed in comparison to a guy with 2 years starting experience. Your point about size helping compensate for errors is a good one. We can't make Johnson a 10 year vet but he can get bigger and apparently he has.

 

[DLCassidy]

Hey if you can't see Johnson coming up high out of his stance after snapping the ball then fine, I have seen it quite a bit from Johnson and if he continue to do that even added weight is not going to be a big help. If I can knock you off balance and get under you then it does not matter if you out weigh me. In this league all of these guys are pretty darn good and while I agree more weight would be a help it is not a cure all for Johnson and yes with better techique I think he could do a much better job even without the weight. Add to that the poor exchange with Bledsoe I think forced Johnson to slow up a tick and that could be causing problems with coming out of his stance a bit slow and high

Johnson's technique is solid for a guy with 2 years starting experience. I guess you couldn't find a link that says otherwise. He allowed only one sack for the season. All the centers you listed with far more experience than Johnson are rated 74-75 other than Jeff Saturday who is a 79. Johnson is currently a 70, which is probably at least as good as any of those guys after 2 years. If he's truly 307 and can stay there I expect him to jump up to the 75 range this year. We will see.