Jonathan Cooper Pleased To Be Honing Skills With Cowboys' Vaunted O-Line

[Doomsday101]

I'm optimistic about Cooper finally fulfilling his promise here too. One thing's for sure, if not here, not anywhere.

I agree. I think if the current group takes these guys under their wings as I expect they will, Cooper has a chance to reach his potential

 

[gimmesix]

"Less warts." Really? Green has a worse injury history than any of them, including Cooper. Green's history of injury goes all the way back to college, and was a big reason why he was never the unquestioned starter at Florida. The Gators couldn't rely on him either. And Green's injuries and subsequent surgeries aren't minor either, hip and back. He's in a class by himself when it comes to being hurt.

His injury history is extensive, but that didn't keep Florida from relying on him when he was healthy, or him from showing enough ability to still be taken in the third round. He started eight games at right tackle as a redshirt freshman and earned Freshman All-American honors despite missing the final four games. He started 10 games the next season and missed only two, missed the entire 2013 season and started 11 games the next season. So you say he wasn't the unquestioned starter while at Florida, but there doesn't seem to have been much of a question when he was healthy.

And as I said, he played well for us when given the chance. His health continues to be the only thing holding him back, but granted, that's a pretty big thing.

For Arizona to give up on Cooper after two seasons despite him starting nine games in 2015, New England to give up on him after trading for him and Cleveland toss him to the curb even after he was presumably healthy waves more red flags to me. The reason for that is if Cooper had shown he was the player he was expected to be at any point along those stops, we wouldn't have him. Instead, he's being treated like a scrub ... and I don't know if the injuries are the only reason for that since he has 14 starts on tape.

To sum up: We know the issue with Green is health. We don't know if that is the only issue with Cooper.

 

[Silver Surfer]

H

And as I said, he played well for us when given the chance. His health continues to be the only thing holding him back, but granted, that's a pretty big thing.

To sum up: We know the issue with Green is health. We don't know if that is the only issue with Cooper.

The best ability is availability. See also: Randy Gregory.

 

[Stash]

His injury history is extensive, but that didn't keep Florida from relying on him when he was healthy, or him from showing enough ability to still be taken in the third round. He started eight games at right tackle as a redshirt freshman and earned Freshman All-American honors despite missing the final four games. He started 10 games the next season and missed only two, missed the entire 2013 season and started 11 games the next season. So you say he wasn't the unquestioned starter while at Florida, but there doesn't seem to have been much of a question when he was healthy.

"When he was healthy" is the story of the guy's career. It's sad, but it's true. He's proven to be unreliable. That's not ability, that's availability. He has the first, not the second.

And as I said, he played well for us when given the chance. His health continues to be the only thing holding him back, but granted, that's a pretty big thing.

He did a fine job for those two games he played, and then suffered yet another serious injury. Health and lack thereof is the whole story with Green. He can play. When he can play.

For Arizona to give up on Cooper after two seasons despite him starting nine games in 2015, New England to give up on him after trading for him and Cleveland toss him to the curb even after he was presumably healthy waves more red flags to me. The reason for that is if Cooper had shown he was the player he was expected to be at any point along those stops, we wouldn't have him. Instead, he's being treated like a scrub ... and I don't know if the injuries are the only reason for that since he has 14 starts on tape.

To sum up: We know the issue with Green is health. We don't know if that is the only issue with Cooper.

The only team of the three that truly have him a chance was Arizona. Check out New England's turnover rate on their offensive line. Cooper won the starting job there and committed the mortal sin, he got hurt. The Patriots had a zero tolerance policy with him, and they quickly waived him. Cleveland? When's the last time that team got anything right? The fact I see that Cooper was rated as the best guard in the league for his first start in Cleveland. How that equals getting cut is more Cleveland Browns stupidity.

I know which guy had more talent. The guy drafted 7th overall.

 

[Aven8]

I'm optimistic about Cooper finally fulfilling his promise here too. One thing's for sure, if not here, not anywhere.

He WAS the be pulling guard I've see in recent memory in college. Let's hope he can get it back. My concern is he and Collins injury history now.

 

[gimmesix]

"The only team of the three that truly have him a chance was Arizona. Check out New England's turnover rate on their offensive line. Cooper won the starting job there and committed the mortal sin, he got hurt. The Patriots had a zero tolerance policy with him, and they quickly waived him. Cleveland? When's the last time that team got anything right? The fact I see that Cooper was rated as the best guard in the league for his first start in Cleveland. How that equals getting cut is more Cleveland Browns stupidity.

I know which guy had more talent. The guy drafted 7th overall.

Maybe what you think will prove to be true, but it's too easy to me to dismiss these cuts the way you are. If I see an extremely talented player, I'm going to give him every chance to stay on my team. Arizona gave up after two years and the Patriots and Browns in less than a season. Maybe his injury troubles are just that bad, but it seems like it's more than that since he's been on the field for each of those teams.

I hope it turns out to be a Marc Colombo-type situation where the teams simply gave up on him because of his health.

 

[xwalker]

But it's not the best way to play guard.

They are not in Pads for OTAs. They are not much more than walk-thru practices for the Linemen. WR and DBs and do a lot without Pads but Linemen are very limited.

I doubt if he gets many snaps at Center once training camp starts unless the injury to Looney is serious.

 

[Stash]

He WAS the be pulling guard I've see in recent memory in college. Let's hope he can get it back. My concern is he and Collins injury history now.

I'm more worried about Cooper and especially Green's injury history moreso than Collins. I think the toe issue was a one-off and overall he's been reliable.

 

[xwalker]

He WAS the be pulling guard I've see in recent memory in college. Let's hope he can get it back. My concern is he and Collins injury history now.

He was the quickest OG that I've ever seen, college or Pro. He had LT feet but he lacked OT length (6-2, 33" arms).

He can still get moving fast based on the Cleveland game footage, but he runs funny now with a herky-jerky motion.

I would bet money that he is at least decent in the preseason.

I would NOT bet money that he stays healthy.

 

[Stash]

Maybe what you think will prove to be true, but it's too easy to me to dismiss these cuts the way you are. If I see an extremely talented player, I'm going to give him every chance to stay on my team. Arizona gave up after two years and the Patriots and Browns in less than a season. Maybe his injury troubles are just that bad, but it seems like it's more than that since he's been on the field for each of those teams.

I hope it turns out to be a Marc Colombo-type situation where the teams simply gave up on him because of his health.

Maybe it's a lot of wishful thinking on my part, but like I've said, the Pats have sent many offensive linemen packing recently. They're the anti-Cowboys when it comes to their offensive line, but it works for them.

As for Cleveland? Again, bad decision after bad decision. And then they went out and blew up the salary structure for guards this offseason because they have money to burn. Nothing they do one way or the other holds value for me.

 

[gimmesix]

They are not in Pads for OTAs. They are not much more than walk-thru practices for the Linemen. WR and DBs and do a lot without Pads but Linemen are very limited.

I doubt if he gets many snaps at Center once training camp starts unless the injury to Looney is serious.

They are working on his ability to snap the ball and trying to get him up to speed on the position. I think how many snaps he ends up taking there in training camp will depend on what he shows at guard. I would assume the number will start out low or possibly not at all, then increase if someone else is looking better in their guard snaps.

If Cooper doesn't end up starting, then is he a better backup option than Looney? I think that's a question Dallas wants to be prepared to answer.

 

[Idgit]

They are working on his ability to snap the ball and trying to get him up to speed on the position. I think how many snaps he ends up taking there in training camp will depend on what he shows at guard. I would assume the number will start out low or possibly not at all, then increase if someone else is looking better in their guard snaps.

If Cooper doesn't end up starting, then is he a better backup option than Looney? I think that's a question Dallas wants to be prepared to answer.

They probably want a couple backup OCs on the squad for preseason games. They're not going to overplay Frederick there, and they don't have a lot of guys who can snap. So get Cooper some experience there with the OL calls, and get him comfortable with it to a point where you can play him in those preseason games and still get good evaluations of your other offensive players.

As for starting LG, we'll see how it goes. It looks like it's Cooper's job to loose, with Green and Bell as options if he doesn't take advantage of the opportunity.

I really liked Cooper coming out (though he was overdrafted). I agree with you that the injury problems plus the getting cut from that Pats have me pretty leery of relying on him. I'm kind of pulling for Green, myself, at this point. Though I'm happy if either comes in and holds down that job.

 

[gimmesix]

Maybe it's a lot of wishful thinking on my part, but like I've said, the Pats have sent many offensive linemen packing recently. They're the anti-Cowboys when it comes to their offensive line, but it works for them.

As for Cleveland? Again, bad decision after bad decision. And then they went out and blew up the salary structure for guards this offseason because they have money to burn. Nothing they do one way or the other holds value for me.

Well, if nothing else, it'll be interesting to see. Cooper and Green first have to prove that they can stay healthy, then we can see what kind of starting linemen they can be. Right now, I believe we've got four dependables, whether Collins ends up at guard or tackle, and one question mark with three possibilities to answer it (since I don't believe Cleary is a possibility).

Health may make Byron Bell the last man standing at guard, which is why I was happy we acquired him. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I really feel that Bell as a guard isn't much of a drop-off, if any, from Leary.

 

[gimmesix]

They probably want a couple backup OCs on the squad for preseason games. They're not going to overplay Frederick there, and they don't have a lot of guys who can snap. So get Cooper some experience there with the OL calls, and get him comfortable with it to a point where you can play him in those preseason games and still get good evaluations of your other offensive players.

As for starting LG, we'll see how it goes. It looks like it's Cooper's job to loose, with Green and Bell as options if he doesn't take advantage of the opportunity.

I really liked Cooper coming out (though he was overdrafted). I agree with you that the injury problems plus the getting cut from that Pats have me pretty leery of relying on him. I'm kind of pulling for Green, myself, at this point. Though I'm happy if either comes in and holds down that job.

I understand that they want a couple of backup centers for preseason games, but if you are absolutely counting on a player to be your starting guard, he's not the one you are going to give center reps. I'm not saying it means Dallas doesn't think Cooper will win the starting job, just that it means the Cowboys haven't penciled him in to the point where they're not giving the other players a look.

I both like this and don't like it. I don't like it from the aspect that I would feel better about having a clear-cut starter who locks down the position from Day 1, much like Smith did, Frederick did and Martin did. I like it from the aspect that it appears that the Cowboys are going to allow players to compete for the position, which means it isn't being handed to anyone, and I feel there's a good chance out of the three primary candidates that we can find a solid starter.

 

[EPL0c0]

Jonathan Cooper: “These guys aren’t just hype. They work hard -- one of the hardest-working group of guys. It’s all-encompassing, they bring everybody in and treat everybody right – but they’re working for everything"

Ronald Leary (in Denver): "Everybody just needs to be pushed more and just work harder and that’s what we’re trying to do as a group. It’s not an individual thing, it’s always as a group on everything with the o-line."

...I think these both speak well about the Dallas coaches & players.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Playing Center is the best way to learn the scheme.

This is true. Excellent observation X.

 

[Idgit]

I understand that they want a couple of backup centers for preseason games, but if you are absolutely counting on a player to be your starting guard, he's not the one you are going to give center reps. I'm not saying it means Dallas doesn't think Cooper will win the starting job, just that it means the Cowboys haven't penciled him in to the point where they're not giving the other players a look.

I both like this and don't like it. I don't like it from the aspect that I would feel better about having a clear-cut starter who locks down the position from Day 1, much like Smith did, Frederick did and Martin did. I like it from the aspect that it appears that the Cowboys are going to allow players to compete for the position, which means it isn't being handed to anyone, and I feel there's a good chance out of the three primary candidates that we can find a solid starter.

I don't disagree, really. At the end of the day, it's important he's getting reps. The OC reps aren't the same as the OG reps, but they're more intellectually challenging, and they still have the physical impact. He can become a better OL just playing OC.

I do think they want the position flex, though, both for the preseason games and because it gives them a lot of options for taking the best 7-8 guys and knowing they can mix and match during the year if and when multiple injuries crop up. If the guys call competing for actual starting snaps can each fill more than one role, it gives you more flexibility to not keep a backup you'd otherwise rely on for OC snaps in a pinch.

I'm more surprised they seem to be settled in at Collins at RT than I am that they're a bit unsettled at LG. I thought Green was going to get a legit shot at the RT spot, and it seems like that's not the direction they're going. Though, that might be just because his injury has been a factor up until very recently.

 

[Idgit]

Jonathan Cooper: “These guys aren’t just hype. They work hard -- one of the hardest-working group of guys. It’s all-encompassing, they bring everybody in and treat everybody right – but they’re working for everything"

Ronald Leary (in Denver): "Everybody just needs to be pushed more and just work harder and that’s what we’re trying to do as a group. It’s not an individual thing, it’s always as a group on everything with the o-line."

...I think these both speak well about the Dallas coaches & players.

Yeah, that's a pretty important contrasting set of quotes there, huh? There's a lot to be said for having the right kinds of guys in every position group. Of course, it helps when those guys can also play really well.

 

[gimmesix]

I'm more surprised they seem to be settled in at Collins at RT than I am that they're a bit unsettled at LG. I thought Green was going to get a legit shot at the RT spot, and it seems like that's not the direction they're going. Though, that might be just because his injury has been a factor up until very recently.

Reading the new OTAs thread, it appears that Collins might have won the RT job without a fight. I thought there would be a legitimate competition between him and Green for the job, but apparently Dallas likes what it sees enough to slide Green inside to compete at guard instead.

 

[Stash]

Well, if nothing else, it'll be interesting to see. Cooper and Green first have to prove that they can stay healthy, then we can see what kind of starting linemen they can be.

No doubt. Both need to get and stay healthy to turn their careers around.

Right now, I believe we've got four dependables, whether Collins ends up at guard or tackle, and one question mark with three possibilities to answer it (since I don't believe Cleary is a possibility).

I actually like Cleary and I think it bodes well for him that he's getting the chance to play some left guard too.

Health may make Byron Bell the last man standing at guard, which is why I was happy we acquired him. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I really feel that Bell as a guard isn't much of a drop-off, if any, from Leary.

I agree with you here. I think Bell could make for a nice left guard option. I like the thoughts of that better than him at tackle. I think he could be a big mauler in the same way Leary was.