Jones, Gregory and Collins' positioning on Cowboys board

[SilverStarCowboy]

It appears Jones was exaggerating when he said Byron Jones was in the top 15 or 16 on their board. I'm surprised because we know that Jerry never exaggerates.

BbbBbBbb--Jerrah SAID Byron Jones was as high as #15 or #16.....other words there were/are several boards the Cowboy have.


Most people across the Nation are pretty blown away about the Cowboys haul....must be Global Warming stirring up some weird finds from the bottom of the ocean, or a direct result of the California drought.

 

[Plankton]

Seems to be a pretty smart guy:

As an aside, Quincy Carter scored a 30 on his Wonderlic. The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

 

[gimmesix]

As an aside, Quincy Carter scored a 30 on his Wonderlic. The numbers don't always tell the whole story.

He also smoked pot. Coincidence ... I think so.

 

[gimmesix]

BbbBbBbb--Jerrah SAID Byron Jones was as high as #16.....other words there were/are several boards the Cowboy have.


Most people across the Nation are pretty blown away about the Cowboys haul....must be Global Warming.

You saying Jerry uses a different board than the scouts and coaches? Maybe that explains the mid- to late 1990s and early 2000s.

 

[tyke1doe]

How do you keep Gregory at #4 and then refuse to take him @ #27? DE is a need. It seems to me that if they decided they wouldn't use a 1st on him but would take him in the 2nd, then they should have moved him down to the group with early 2nd round grades.

Isn't the ranking based on talent and where that talent might go?

You don't take a player ranked high if you believe he will be selected lower or you believe you can get that player in a lower round.

That's not maximizing the appropriate value.

I've had this discussion several times on this forum. If you can get a comic book that's worth $20,000 at a price of $10,000, you'd be silly to pay $20,000 even if that's what it is worth. Why not pay for it at $10,000 and use the other $10,000 for another book maximizing your position with respect to the value?

 

[tyke1doe]

“Jerry Jones did a great job doing that deal,” Byron Jones said. “But at the end of the day we have to prove ourselves.

“Yeah, maybe we were measured as first-round guys but we’ve got to prove ourselves with a Cowboys uniform on.”

I love this guys attitude. He just seems to get it. He seemed super competitive out on the field at minicamp too.

“Everybody feels that way,” Gregory said. “I know La’el carries himself that way, Byron obviously does. I know I do.

“I think we expect a lot of big things from ourselves. But we can’t add any more pressure on ourselves. We have to be the same players we’ve always been but get better.”

I'm very surprised by Gregory in all honesty. Leading up to the draft I figured he was just a big dummy. I've now completely turned around on that line of thinking. He speaks so eloquently and sounds like an intelligent young man. Yes, he made some dumb decisions, but he seems like a smart kid with a decision making problem. I'll definitely be rooting for him for more than him being able to help my football team.

As I said previously, I'm not that high - pun intended - on us taking players who have a problem with drugs, particularly when they can't stop doing them at important times, say like at the Combine or during the season.

However, one of the things I've noticed about Gregory that makes him different from others is that he is WILLING to be held accountable. He has said he has a problem and needs help. He's said he was simply being stubborn, and he's said he's willing to let someone trail him, follow him to keep him out of trouble.

To me, his willingness to be "babysat" is HUGE, because so many times men with egos REFUSE to submit to accountability and to be watched by others.

I see it in preachers who fall and leaders who fall. They want to rebound THEIR way. They don't want people telling them what to do and don't want to submit their actions and ways to anyone else. And that's a sign of too much pride and a person not wanting to deal with forces that may be too strong for them to deal with alone.

So I'm very encouraged by Gregory's attitude and approach beyond the typical "I'm going to change" rhetoric you hear from most athletes. He's not only saying it, it appears he'll submit to a process that will keep him out of trouble or help him keep himself out of trouble.

 

[tyke1doe]

None of us know for sure what goes on between GM's during the draft, so it's all a guess on our part. Just like with Gregory, Shaq could have been rated higher but they still would have went with Jones.

I think after Gregory started to slide, they shifted their attention to the cornerback position. The thought might have been if Gregory is falling he would be available at #60, but Jones represents the last of the first-round corners, and if we don't pick him someone will grab him and Eric Rowe before the Cowboys make their next pick. As it turns out, Rowe goes before the Cowboys next pick at #60. And I have little doubt that Jones would have been gone if we had picked Gregory instead at #27.

 

[tyke1doe]

I'm pretty sure the FO didn't call up the Panthers and tell them we're going to take Shaq if you don't. I also seriously doubt they discussed who they were going to take at 27 with them. What purpose would it serve to sincerely tell teams who exactly you're targeting? It makes zero sense that the GM of the panthers knew who the Cowboys were going to pick or what the players rankings were on the board. It sounds exactly like a sell job to a fan base that didn’t like the pick.

The only way they would have that knowledge is if Dallas tried to trade up to get him and when the Panthers asked who they were targeting they said Shaq. Nothing else would make sense and since we've hard zero rumbling of that, I doubt thats what happened.

Does the same apply to the Cowboys? When Frederick was taken, many said he would have been available in the second, and Cowboys fans retorted that another team was poised to take him if we hadn't.

 

[erod]

Please don't tell me you're just regurgitating what you read from Broaddus.

No, I watched Nebraska games. Physical teams just ran right at him and bulldozed him. And he only had 7 sacks, and didn't create all the pressure some think he did.

The skill is there to learn to be a Jason Taylor kind of player. But he's got a ways to go. There's a reason Denver drafted the other pot smoker and not him.

 

[Noryb]

Isn't the ranking based on talent and where that talent might go?

You don't take a player ranked high if you believe he will be selected lower or you believe you can get that player in a lower round.

That's not maximizing the appropriate value.

I've had this discussion several times on this forum. If you can get a comic book that's worth $20,000 at a price of $10,000, you'd be silly to pay $20,000 even if that's what it is worth. Why not pay for it at $10,000 and use the other $10,000 for another book maximizing your position with respect to the value?

What if somebody jumps ahead of you and pays 15k for the comic book? Now your stuck with 20k and there's nothing but a bunch of worthless comic books left on the shelves. I'd rather they overpay for a Travis Frederick (according to the experts) than to miss out on him completely.

 

[tyke1doe]

What if somebody jumps ahead of you and pays 15k for the comic book? Now your stuck with 20k and there's nothing but a bunch of worthless comic books left on the shelves. I'd rather they overpay for a Travis Frederick (according to the experts) than to miss out on him completely.

I wouldn't say necessarily worthless. You just didn't get the comic book you wanted. But there are other comic books that are in the same value range.

Of course, the variable in this situation is the value others may put on that comic book (player). So, let's say you're correct, and a team jumps over you to get that player. They paid more for the book, but paid less than its value. You're taking a gamble that you can get that book for less. Even if you don't get it at $10,000 and another gets the book for $15,000, you both got it for less than its original value.

That's really my point. Someone is jumping above you to get that value of the book, but they're still paying less than they would. Again, very few, if any, people pay more for something when they could get it for less.

 

[xwalker]

Isn't the ranking based on talent and where that talent might go?

You don't take a player ranked high if you believe he will be selected lower or you believe you can get that player in a lower round.

That's not maximizing the appropriate value.

I've had this discussion several times on this forum. If you can get a comic book that's worth $20,000 at a price of $10,000, you'd be silly to pay $20,000 even if that's what it is worth. Why not pay for it at $10,000 and use the other $10,000 for another book maximizing your position with respect to the value?

The draft board does not consider where the player might be drafted. They make those decisions separately from the draft board. They had TWill ranked ahead of Escobar but thought Ecsobar would be picked before TWill.

 

[AzorAhai]

Does the same apply to the Cowboys? When Frederick was taken, many said he would have been available in the second, and Cowboys fans retorted that another team was poised to take him if we hadn't.

That was the Cowboys sticking to a player they graded high and wanted. It was later said from outside the Cowboys brass that the Ravens were going to take him next. That's a lot different than the GM of the panthers telling people he knew for a fact who the Cowboys were going to take. Maybe he had an idea or thought they might, but there's no way he knew for a fact who they were going to take. Particularly when everything pointing to Jones being the target.

 

[gimmesix]

Isn't the ranking based on talent and where that talent might go?

You don't take a player ranked high if you believe he will be selected lower or you believe you can get that player in a lower round.

That's not maximizing the appropriate value.

I've had this discussion several times on this forum. If you can get a comic book that's worth $20,000 at a price of $10,000, you'd be silly to pay $20,000 even if that's what it is worth. Why not pay for it at $10,000 and use the other $10,000 for another book maximizing your position with respect to the value?

You'd be silly to pay $10,000 for a comic book (and I say that as a former collector).

 

[Risen Star]

I still can't figure out why Gregory is rated so high on his talent.

Not that he isn't a good prospect, but at his weight and limited pass-rush technique, he's a bit of a project. I don't see him getting much playing time this year except for obvious passing downs.

Second round was about right for him.

All the guy can do is rush the passer at an elite level. 2nd round.

Hey, which cornerback should we take in the first?

 

[plasticman]

I have consistently been one of Jerry Jones's harshest critics.

But Jerry......ya done good.

These deals just don't get down without Jerry's charisma, charm, style....whatever you want to call it.

There will be criticisms somewhere else but for now, I got to give it to him.

 

[Risen Star]

I have consistently been one of Jerry Jones's harshest critics.

But Jerry......ya done good.

These deals just don't get down without Jerry's charisma, charm, style....whatever you want to call it.

There will be criticisms somewhere else but for now, I got to give it to him.

Spare me.

He's the owner of the Dallas Cowboys. People act like he created that mystique. He bought it. I've always said as bad as Jerry's been as the Owner/Fake GM of this team, he'd have been even worse with another team and not have the lure of the Cowboys on his side. Players want to play here. This is a special sports franchise and that started long before Jerry Jones arrived.

I give him more credit for just having the mindset of stockpiling blue chip offensive linemen. That 1, 2 or 3 wasn't enough. They were prepared to take another in the 1st round this year and pounced on Collins when he was cleared. That's a clear and abrupt philosophical shift in their thinking. It wasn't long ago that people said he'd never take an offensive lineman in the first round.

 

[TwentyOne]

How do you keep Gregory at #4 and then refuse to take him @ #27? DE is a need. It seems to me that if they decided they wouldn't use a 1st on him but would take him in the 2nd, then they should have moved him down to the group with early 2nd round grades.

Its a question how you set up your draft board and how you think other teams have nees or will pass on players.

I think Dallas has more then one Draft board (i would do it like that way). One where i list players pure talent wise: best first second 2nd and so on.
But i would have other boards where i put players where i expect them to be drafted because of needs other teams have or because players will drop (personal issues etc).

So when this post is about Dallas Draft board i think its the "talent" board we are talking about. But nobody is drafting by that alone. Otherwise Collins would have gone in the first roud (ad not to Dallas). Passing on certain players to get them in lower rounds is very smart.

 

[TwentyOne]

I have consistently been one of Jerry Jones's harshest critics.

But Jerry......ya done good.

These deals just don't get down without Jerry's charisma, charm, style....whatever you want to call it.

There will be criticisms somewhere else but for now, I got to give it to him.

JJ did not change. And he has nothing to do with all those smart decissions we do right now.

All he did - and i give him credit for that is:

a) staying with people that actually understand how to manage a team
b) letting those people do their work.

JJ is not and will never be a good GM. But he has an ego that is big enough to let others stay next to him for the success of the team. I give him that.

The years i followed him i do not think JJ changed alot. He's always been somebody who does everything for a coach when he decided to hand that new coach a contract. But when the hoped success does not follow he can turn to be a very "hands-on" owner. Which is not good - for the coach AND the franchise.

 

[tyke1doe]

You'd be silly to pay $10,000 for a comic book (and I say that as a former collector).

Repeat after me: it's only an analogy. It's only an analogy.