Josh Brent Questions

[jterrell]

^
This.

Brent was playing at an 8-10m a year clip the week before the drunken manslaughter.
Not sure what level makes it worth waiting on a guy but he has cost us virtually no money or draft picks and arguably has been far more valuable than most high picks we've made the past decade.

We can all argue his court case but on the field was never a problem for Dallas.
He was an ascending DT that was quickly emerging as one of the top NT in football.

As to the rest, the court of law and the NFL will rule.
He'll be subject to both and that's what matters, not inane fans whose opinions mean very little and buffet about all over the place from topic to topic and player to player.

 

[LandryFan]

The post of yours that i quoted is no longer there and you didn't say that anyone was pretending. Your response said that it didn't technically need intent but it required some willful men res...

I took that too mean we're supposed to pretend that the guy got behind the wheel of a vehicle, drunk, without any knowledge that the likely hood of an accident, and potentially killing someone, was higher because of those factors.

If that wasn't what you meant from the post that is now gone, so I can't quote it again but you can look at my previous post you're asking about to see what I'm referring to word for word, then that is my mistake. That's just what I took from the comment.

Speaking of posts being gone, I did respond to another of your posts directed toward me, but it is gone. Not sure why. Just wanted you to know that I did respond to your post.

 

[TwoDeep3]

And what's the wrong message?...maybe it sends a message, saying people deserve chances, if they paid their debt, show they changed.

Jazz, I purposely left that argument out (albeit I did call him a murderer). But to answer your question, after him doing the same without the murder results in college, his My Bad excuse is jujst that. And second chances are what Dallas has provoded the first time aro

I've watched every game that Josh Brent played for Dallas and the sad irony is that game against the Eagles before the crash was his best game as a pro. He was developing into a solid starter and just had a fantastic game, so the upside looked like it was definitely there. IN the 4-3, I see him as a 1-tech that could be solid against the run and drawing some double teams.

Problem is that a year off is tough to come back from.

Lastly, the statement that he 'murdered' his friend is ludicrous.

YR

I did drop the murder comment. I wish I had not done so now because my intent was to find out what this player is about on the football field..

But YR, this is where I will plant a flag in this discussion.

Vehicular homicide is what this is called.

He had been arrested for driving drunk before. He willfully got behind a wheel of a car with aforethought. It's not like he hadn't been at that very same spot and suffered a lite version of the consequence for driving under the influence.

Did he consciously kill his friend? The answer is yes and no. He did not intend to do so. But he took a loaded weapon and held it to his friends head thinking it was harmless. He thought he could handle it.

So many want to walk this back to an accident that could happen to any of us. And if you drink and drive that is correct.

But it took me once putting my hand on a hot heater floor grate and burning it for me to know not to do that again. This guy got lucky the first time, but that didn't seem to teach him much. So he got behind the wheel of his car, over the limit to safely drive, and killed a passenger.

They call it vehicular homicide for a reason.

Homicide has no other definition than murder. Even if the District Attorney reduced the charges to get a conviction.

 

[Nightman]

We have the rights to Brent. He paid his debt. If he can still play, Dallas should give him a shot.

 

[TwoDeep3]

If you think Brent should be further punished, then take it up with the legal system. You could make an argument that his punishment was to lenient.

Having said that, once he's served his time, then he should be allowed to move forward in life. Releasing people from prison only to restrict their employment opportunities is just setting up society for more problems. The best thing for society is to have past criminals getting employment to the best of their abilities.

IMO, if he returns to football, it would be better for him and for the Cowboys if he played for another team.

In regards to his ability, I don't know if he is a good fit in Marinelli's defense. He seems to be the best fit as an NT in a 3-4 defense. He was a very powerful player, but his quickness wasn't what you typically expect to see in a Marinelli type DL. He played at over 320. I guess it's possible that he could keep his weight down and get a little quicker, but that's a big "if" after all this time.

I expect him to get a suspension. The key is that I don't think he can start the suspension until a team signs him. It will be difficult for him to get signed by a team if they have to then wait on him to serve his suspension. The Cowboys might "sign" him such that he can serve his suspension. They could decide after his suspension if they wanted to move him to the roster or release him. Even if they release him, he would have served his suspension which would make it easier for him to get signed by another team.

Without or without the suspension, I don't see him being physically ready to play football. They league might allow the Cowboys to put him on the NFI list which would allow him to workout at the team's facilities under their guidance.

I don't really think Jerry's primary motivation for trying to help Brent is because of his possible ability to play football again. Jerry's seems to really want to help him get his life together. I just don't see an NFL owner going to all of this trouble to get back a guy that was not a Star player.

I stated my case in another thread about what I believe about this second chance.

I was remiss calling him a murderer, only in the context of asking about his skills as as football player. I should never have mixed those two together.

Yet, I do think Jerry is very much motivated by his potential. If this was Herbert Shmedlapp who runs a 6.7 forty and was a WR who was about to be cut, and her took a life. Jerry would not even mention the guy again.

By the way, our society does a poor job of telling people about this?

I don't know where you live but where I live there are plenty of reminders. Even liquor commercials have caveats to drink responsibly.

So I guess we are okay with 'What do responsibly mean?"

There is a contingency who claim they knew nothing about the effects on smoking and lung cancer. They must have just got back from Seti Alpha 5.

 

[CCBoy]

Jazz, I purposely left that argument out (albeit I did call him a murderer). But to answer your question, after him doing the same without the murder results in college, his My Bad excuse is jujst that. And second chances are what Dallas has provoded the first time aro


I did drop the murder comment. I wish I had not done so now because my intent was to find out what this player is about on the football field..

But YR, this is where I will plant a flag in this discussion.

Vehicular homicide is what this is called.

He had been arrested for driving drunk before. He willfully got behind a wheel of a car with aforethought. It's not like he hadn't been at that very same spot and suffered a lite version of the consequence for driving under the influence.

Did he consciously kill his friend? The answer is yes and no. He did not intend to do so. But he took a loaded weapon and held it to his friends head thinking it was harmless. He thought he could handle it.

So many want to walk this back to an accident that could happen to any of us. And if you drink and drive that is correct.

But it took me once putting my hand on a hot heater floor grate and burning it for me to know not to do that again. This guy got lucky the first time, but that didn't seem to teach him much. So he got behind the wheel of his car, over the limit to safely drive, and killed a passenger.

They call it vehicular homicide for a reason.

Homicide has no other definition than murder. Even if the District Attorney reduced the charges to get a conviction.

In the lead up to Desert Storm, we had a Drill Sergeant stationed at Fort Knox, Ky who lost at a real game of Russian roulette.

Also, the first casualty in Boznia was another Drill Sergeant from Fort Knox. He was killed and his driver injured when he was in a restricted area attempting to defuse a mine.

For the record, both actions were poor choices...

 

[jazzcat22]

Our society does a poor job of keeping people out of these situations and does a poor job of changing the mindset of people.

I've designated myself as the DD many times and you don't get any support from Bars/Bartenders. They often hassle you for ordering water and some want to charge you for it. I have not tried in several years, but getting a cab in the Dallas area is really difficult if you live in the Suburbs. There might be some programs to help people get a ride, but they're not well advertised if they do exist. I've had to pay $50 to get a 10 mile cab ride home. Most young people won't pick that option.

DWI laws have a lot of gray area. If people really had the mindset that the penalty for DWI was equal to the penalty for murder, then very very few would do it and the support for not doing it would be much better.

Bottom line, for society to depend on a young person making the right decision on drinking and driving, considering the gray area of consequences is a failure by society more than a failure of individuals. The lack of practical support being able to drink without driving is also a failure.

$50 for 10 miles, might be about right.
8 years ago, I paid $22 for 5 miles from DFW aiport to my house.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Our society does a poor job of keeping people out of these situations and does a poor job of changing the mindset of people.

I've designated myself as the DD many times and you don't get any support from Bars/Bartenders. They often hassle you for ordering water and some want to charge you for it. I have not tried in several years, but getting a cab in the Dallas area is really difficult if you live in the Suburbs. There might be some programs to help people get a ride, but they're not well advertised if they do exist. I've had to pay $50 to get a 10 mile cab ride home. Most young people won't pick that option.

Another example is if you go to a bar in a city, you will have to park somewhere. And then they will tow your car if you don't get it moved out of the parking lot by the crack of dawn. That always seemed ridiculous to me.



YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

$50 for 10 miles, might be about right.
8 years ago, I paid $22 for 5 miles from DFW aiport to my house.

Depends on the city.

When I lived in Myrtle Beach, a 4-mile trip to the airport would run about $40. When I lived in Atlanta, I could probably go about 15 miles for the same price.




YR

 

[CCBoy]

Bottom dollar to be bet...no matter what level bad conduct plateaus at, it always is based upon a series of previously bad conduct as well.

That is why there was developed a sense of paying a social price for the merit in their deeds. Once paid, despite memories...legitimized punishment ends.

 

[jazzcat22]

Depends on the city.

When I lived in Myrtle Beach, a 4-mile trip to the airport would run about $40. When I lived in Atlanta, I could probably go about 15 miles for the same price.




YR

Yes, true, as in Jacksonville, I paid $50 from hotel to the airport and it was $50, on returning, it was $45 from airport to the hotel. 23 miles 1 way.
My 2nd stay in Jacksonville I stayed in a hotel 2 miles from the airport. $4 per day to park in economy when i flew home for a weekend. not sure what a taxi was. Probably less than it was to park for the weekend.

 

[TwoDeep3]

They call it vehicular manslaughter.

If he was purposely trying to kill the person with his car, then it would be called vehicular homicide.

Either you 'drop the murder comment' or you don't.

So trying to say that you dropped the murder comment and then try to back up your argument by calling it homicide and that 'homicide has no other definition than murder' is hypocritical and ludicrous.

Personally, I am not sure how I feel about this situation. There's a lot of odds and ends to the story. On one hand he had been arrested for DUI before. On the other hand, Jerry Brown's mother wants him to play football.

There's no guide to give a perfect answer. I just think that given him breaking his terms of probation and given the consequence of his crime...he doesn't deserve to be allowed in. But, I'm not going to imply that murdered Jerry Brown. And Jerry Brown willingly got into the car with Brent. That's why there is typically a lesser punishment for those that kill a passenger in a DUI accident than if they killed a non-passenger.





YR

Certainly you may see this as you like. I am being hypocritical because I took a very hard stand on this player and I was trying to walk it back and get a commentary on his skills set from days gone by. So in that since you are correct and for that I stand accused and convicted and apologize.

But my position on his act, and the death of another after he had revealed this behavior with a better results once in his past, is not hypocritical.

I believe it was murder then as I believe it is murder now. I'm drunk, I'm deciding to drive and the results be damned. One of the reasons this and most societies put people in jail is they have exhibited a danger to said society to an extent they cannot be trusted. Removing them from our midst while offering a punitive existence is what we do. His behavior shows he has(d) a willful disregard for the lives of others to suit his convenience rather than take a cab or drink less.

If he took up a gun and tried to rob a bank and didn't get any money, would we as a society ignore that the second time when he actually got away with some cash? I don't know if he is still a danger to us, but I live in the same town he drives in and have to wonder if he stopped off and had a few on the way home and I am in the cross hairs of his impaired driving and his vehicle.

We do not punish these people hard enough and allow this to go on by our compassion for the drinker, I suppose.

But surely your opinion on this is as valuable as anyone else. So I respect that.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Our society does a poor job of keeping people out of these situations and does a poor job of changing the mindset of people.

I've designated myself as the DD many times and you don't get any support from Bars/Bartenders. They often hassle you for ordering water and some want to charge you for it. I have not tried in several years, but getting a cab in the Dallas area is really difficult if you live in the Suburbs. There might be some programs to help people get a ride, but they're not well advertised if they do exist. I've had to pay $50 to get a 10 mile cab ride home. Most young people won't pick that option.

DWI laws have a lot of gray area. If people really had the mindset that the penalty for DWI was equal to the penalty for murder, then very very few would do it and the support for not doing it would be much better.

Bottom line, for society to depend on a young person making the right decision on drinking and driving, considering the gray area of consequences is a failure by society more than a failure of individuals. The lack of practical support being able to drink without driving is also a failure.

You make some excellent points. I appreciate the response.

I basically only don't agree on it being a failure of society. A person shouldn't need society to help them out, or hold their hand, or give them assistance in avoiding drinking and driving. It's very simple, to be quite honest, if you drink you simply don't drive. If that's too much for a person to comprehend, or deal with, then they've likely got far larger issues that they should probably deal with before they're out trying to drink in the first place.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Most OL take a lot more than 1 month off.
They get in shape in camp and during games which is exactly what I suggest any 320 pound guy would go.
They didn't get 320 running wind sprints in the off-season. --ok except maybe Tyron who is a freak of nature.

Guys like Nate and Larry Allen didn't need cardio work to do their jobs.
They needed to get in football shape which is well below most sports, especially for linemen but much more about abuse of the body physically via contact.

Well, then, take TWO months off and report for the first game agin the 49ers.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I believe it's standard that he must pay restitution to the family. In this case Brown's daughter will get monthly payments from Brent, until paid in full. Whatever that amount that was determined by the courts.

Good. That might be the only positive thing to come out of Brent's slimy case/conviction.

 

[Kaiser]

I believe it's standard that he must pay restitution to the family. In this case Brown's daughter will get monthly payments from Brent, until paid in full. Whatever that amount that was determined by the courts.

Great post. That is the point I was waiting for someone to make. We can't go back in time and bring Jerry Brown back. But there is a purpose served if Brent plays in the NFL again.

 

[justbob]

Thank you for your comments .. But move on to football. This thread is closed