Just a random thought about Spencer

[21Savage]

Well that has always been his forte. His game is based on strength and power. Plus you have to look at their responsibilities. Ware is the Left/Weak-side OLB while Spencer is the Right/Strong-side OLB. So Spencer is asked to take on blockers in the running game more than Ware is. While Ware's game is based on pursuit.

But I do agree that Spencer was absolutely outstanding and gave us some dominating games.

Just saw your sig. You like Mega?

Ever heard 'redemption' with AZ?

Plans to conquer the streets, branded in the head like the mark of the beast
my knowledge so ominous, I plot in my sleep
when I eat, my *****s eat, we take the bitter with the sweet
if I die, few will cry, less will do a bid for me
once intrigued with money and fast cars,
stubbornly I sold crack to my man moms
it troubled me so I asked God, forgiveness for past wrongs and future sins
presently the group I'm in, so heavenly as the roof of Zen
like Vince Carter I'm too intense, for dude's defense to stop me
I abuse the rim
anybody can ball, I do it to win

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Just saw your sig. You like Mega?

Ever heard 'redemption' with AZ?

Plans to conquer the streets, branded in the head like the mark of the beast
my knowledge so ominous, I plot in my sleep
when I eat, my *****s eat, we take the bitter with the sweet
if I die, few will cry, less will do a bid for me
once intrigued with money and fast cars,
stubbornly I sold crack to my man moms
it troubled me so I asked God, forgiveness for past wrongs and future sins
presently the group I'm in, so heavenly as the roof of Zen
like Vince Carter I'm too intense, for dude's defense to stop me
I abuse the rim
anybody can ball, I do it to win

Like? I'm like his biggest F.A.N.

I think I have heard Redemption. I've also heard and really like Uncut Raw. That joint is hard-core. It stripped the beat waaay before the Neptunes.

 

[21Savage]

Have a nice day!

Let me preface this post by saying I believe Ware is a BETTER PLAYER than Spencer. You drawing anything otherwise from my posts, would be more of a testament to faulty reading comprehension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newnationcb
I can live with that....and I'll enjoy knowing that you're obviously not capable of a rational discussion.

Rational discussion? Lol. This coming from the person who started his post with (those who have an opinion contrary to mine) are borderline stupid.

he's hardly ever double teamed on run plays. Maybe, Hos or some of the more respected football minds here can attest to some of my assertions.

Well that would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for help. Ware is often chipped or bumped outside on run plays. It happens quite often. To think he only makes contact with one offensive player per play on run plays is ridiculous. As is the notion that he only rushes or protects one gap or zone.

I see most of you argument centers on the fact that I didn't qualify every thing I said with "this is not an absolute or doesn't happen 100% of the time". That is childish and ridiculous, so I won't even glorify your logic by going there with you.

Primarily, in a 3-4 defense, the OLBs, on run downs, are blocked by a single TE, Tackle, and in a fewer occasions a FB. That's football 101.


3. in a 3-4 defense, primarily, yes.

Primarily? Hmm...maybe you should have said that. You think? I'd imagine they see interior linemen and RB's quite often as well...or have you forgotten that we move our linebackers around quite a bit? It happens, and it's all taken into consideration here, regardless of the need for you to make it not so, or of little importance, to support your opinion.

It happens? People get struck by lighning happens too. I'm speaking about the norm and will not need to add conditionals to each of my statements on a message board. And on how many run plays a game do you think Chris Snee is blocking Ware. Also, on how many run downs do you see our OLBs on the inside rather than setting the edge. I can tell you being well informed that there are virtually any. I remember Spencer being caught in the MLB position on one of the run downs against Oakland and that's about all I can remember.

4. Ware doesn't free up Spencer: on run downs, no he doesn't. Spencer doesn't free up Ware either.

On run downs only? Ahhh.....another addendum...now its only run plays that are taken into consideration for OLB's in the 3-4. Makes perfect sense...or something. At least it fits fits your argument nicely.

I was speaking about ONE game, in which our opponent ran the ball more than they threw it. And like I said, I will not append each statement with a qualifier just because someone on a message board might misconstrue it to suit his mental bias or judgement of my opinions.

5. The only players Ware and Spencer come into contact with are DT's and TE's. I wonder how you took TEs and tackles to mean DTs and TEs.

I mistyped. Obviously. Please do excuse me....or perhaps you could just make a rational assumption this time and realize that I meant OT.

Rational assumption? I rationally assumed you had misread my post based on the rest of your interpretation.


Lol. We're really going to have this rational discussion about football. And yes, 95% of the time, both of those guys are going up against a TE or a tackle.

Another addendum... this time it's 95%. At least you're starting to admit your faults.

Don't be ridiculous.


6. There were times that Spencer was double teamed as well. (astounding observation!) Comprehension is key. There were times when Spencer was double teamed INSTEAD. Meaning that he was double teamed while Ware was single teamed.

Uh huh....somehow I don't see where I alluded to anything otherwise. You, however, feel free to make assumptions wherever you like.....but you're right, comprehension is key...and you've failed at it again. I can see where the words "as well" could throw off even the most ardent scholars...

In my initial post, I stated that there were pass plays where Ware was single teamed and Spencer was double teamed- speaking about the same play. You then stated that it was an astute observation on my part that Spencer might've been double teamed as well. In speaking about the "same play", why wouldn't the phrase "as well" be a contradition to my assertion. Reading comprehension again......


7. If I don't go back and watch the games to see what is painfully obvious to most football fans, then you won't talk to me anymore. It is ridiculous to say that the individual battles at the LOS on every play are painfully obvious to even the most trained eye. What is film watching for then? If it's not a sack or a huge tackle for loss, most people don't notice it. You have to go back, watch each play, each line player, and rewind back and forth several times. Most people won't be able to stand that; I love doing it

That's admirable. It really is....but if you've come to the conclusion that Spencer is a better player than Ware, you need to find a new hobby. My assertion here is that Ware (injured I'll have you...I can use addendums too) plays an entirely different position, against superior players than Spencer. He's game planned for far more, double teamed far more, and still had games where he completely took over....a fact you've chosen to ignore with your assertions.

You can choose to ignore these things if you like, but I wouldn't act so shocked when someone corrects you.

And I know it probably hasn't dawned on you yet that I was speaking about one game and a later, a comparison of their play in the latter part of the season with an inclusion of the handicap that Ware was injured. I guess you just butted in ignorantly. That's what "ardent scholars" do

Have a nice day!

 

[Swaggstar1]

He had a great year

 

[Cowboy Brian]

He had a great year

a great 5/6 games.


I love Spencer think he is a fantastic LBer in the NFL, but he is no where close to Ware.

 

[casmith07]

I'm talking about earlier in the season.

"...it's just a lack of timing..."

"...he's still learning the system..."

"...he contributes in other ways..."

"...but look what he did in Detroit 10 years ago..."

The true evidence was there, people just chose to ignore it.

And I was paraphrasing you :laugh1:

Besides, Roy Williams wasn't even in Detroit 10 years ago

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And I was paraphrasing you :laugh1:

pss, Roy doesn't even block that good.

Besides, Roy Williams wasn't even in Detroit 10 years ago

You got me THAR!

 

[tomson75]

Let me preface this post by saying I believe Ware is a BETTER PLAYER than Spencer. You drawing anything otherwise from my posts, would be more of a testament to faulty reading comprehension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newnationcb
I can live with that....and I'll enjoy knowing that you're obviously not capable of a rational discussion.

Rational discussion? Lol. This coming from the person who started his post with (those who have an opinion contrary to mine) are borderline stupid.

he's hardly ever double teamed on run plays. Maybe, Hos or some of the more respected football minds here can attest to some of my assertions.

Well that would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for help. Ware is often chipped or bumped outside on run plays. It happens quite often. To think he only makes contact with one offensive player per play on run plays is ridiculous. As is the notion that he only rushes or protects one gap or zone.

I see most of you argument centers on the fact that I didn't qualify every thing I said with "this is not an absolute or doesn't happen 100% of the time". That is childish and ridiculous, so I won't even glorify your logic by going there with you.

Primarily, in a 3-4 defense, the OLBs, on run downs, are blocked by a single TE, Tackle, and in a fewer occasions a FB. That's football 101.


3. in a 3-4 defense, primarily, yes.

Primarily? Hmm...maybe you should have said that. You think? I'd imagine they see interior linemen and RB's quite often as well...or have you forgotten that we move our linebackers around quite a bit? It happens, and it's all taken into consideration here, regardless of the need for you to make it not so, or of little importance, to support your opinion.

It happens? People get struck by lighning happens too. I'm speaking about the norm and will not need to add conditionals to each of my statements on a message board. And on how many run plays a game do you think Chris Snee is blocking Ware. Also, on how many run downs do you see our OLBs on the inside rather than setting the edge. I can tell you being well informed that there are virtually any. I remember Spencer being caught in the MLB position on one of the run downs against Oakland and that's about all I can remember.

4. Ware doesn't free up Spencer: on run downs, no he doesn't. Spencer doesn't free up Ware either.

On run downs only? Ahhh.....another addendum...now its only run plays that are taken into consideration for OLB's in the 3-4. Makes perfect sense...or something. At least it fits fits your argument nicely.

I was speaking about ONE game, in which our opponent ran the ball more than they threw it. And like I said, I will not append each statement with a qualifier just because someone on a message board might misconstrue it to suit his mental bias or judgement of my opinions.

5. The only players Ware and Spencer come into contact with are DT's and TE's. I wonder how you took TEs and tackles to mean DTs and TEs.

I mistyped. Obviously. Please do excuse me....or perhaps you could just make a rational assumption this time and realize that I meant OT.

Rational assumption? I rationally assumed you had misread my post based on the rest of your interpretation.


Lol. We're really going to have this rational discussion about football. And yes, 95% of the time, both of those guys are going up against a TE or a tackle.

Another addendum... this time it's 95%. At least you're starting to admit your faults.

Don't be ridiculous.


6. There were times that Spencer was double teamed as well. (astounding observation!) Comprehension is key. There were times when Spencer was double teamed INSTEAD. Meaning that he was double teamed while Ware was single teamed.

Uh huh....somehow I don't see where I alluded to anything otherwise. You, however, feel free to make assumptions wherever you like.....but you're right, comprehension is key...and you've failed at it again. I can see where the words "as well" could throw off even the most ardent scholars...

In my initial post, I stated that there were pass plays where Ware was single teamed and Spencer was double teamed- speaking about the same play. You then stated that it was an astute observation on my part that Spencer might've been double teamed as well. In speaking about the "same play", why wouldn't the phrase "as well" be a contradition to my assertion. Reading comprehension again......


7. If I don't go back and watch the games to see what is painfully obvious to most football fans, then you won't talk to me anymore. It is ridiculous to say that the individual battles at the LOS on every play are painfully obvious to even the most trained eye. What is film watching for then? If it's not a sack or a huge tackle for loss, most people don't notice it. You have to go back, watch each play, each line player, and rewind back and forth several times. Most people won't be able to stand that; I love doing it

That's admirable. It really is....but if you've come to the conclusion that Spencer is a better player than Ware, you need to find a new hobby. My assertion here is that Ware (injured I'll have you...I can use addendums too) plays an entirely different position, against superior players than Spencer. He's game planned for far more, double teamed far more, and still had games where he completely took over....a fact you've chosen to ignore with your assertions.

You can choose to ignore these things if you like, but I wouldn't act so shocked when someone corrects you.

And I know it probably hasn't dawned on you yet that I was speaking about one game and a later, a comparison of their play in the latter part of the season with an inclusion of the handicap that Ware was injured. I guess you just butted in ignorantly. That's what "ardent scholars" do

Have a nice day!

Lmao....so you said something stupid...didn't qualify it, and it's my fault. Got it.

Genius.

You're clearly infinitely almost as smart as you think you are.

 

[21Savage]

Lmao....so you said something stupid...didn't qualify it, and it's my fault. Got it.

Genius.

You're clearly infinitely almost as smart as you think you are.

No, you, in jumping into the argument without understanding what I've been in saying in the thread, are stupid. Don't need no qualifiers for that

 

[tomson75]

No, you, in jumping into the argument without understanding what I've been in saying in the thread, are stupid. Don't need no qualifiers for that

My favorite part.

Understanding what you said wasn't the problem....WHY it was said was the issue. It's no fault of mine that you can't comprehend this.

You said Ware has never played a game as dominantly as Spencer's game against Minnesota...and I corrected you.

Easy.

By your logic, if person A says 1+1=3, and person 2 corrects him and tells him the answer is 2.....person 2 is stupid.

Yeah......have fun with that.

Peace your mullet.

 

[ljs44]

What makes me the most giddy is that his game against Minnesota was better than any game Ware's ever played for the Cowboys.

That's a bold statement but if you don't believe, just watch the game again and focus on him throughout the game. It was like he was possessed. He kept trash talking, getting in their faces, but more importantly, making plays at the line.

I haven't seen anything like it from a defensive end/OLB. Shincoe, Kleinsasser and their full back were just shaking their head the whole game about how they couldn't stop him. There were at least 4 holds on him that weren't called.

Whoa there partner. Step away from the drinks.

Spencer is really good, but Ware is the arguably the best Def player in the league

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Spencer definetely was a beast against Minny.

If he played with that much fire and emotion he would be unstopable.

If he played so well, why did Minnisoda score like a hunerd points on us?

 

[CowboyMike]

If he played so well, why did Minnisoda score like a hunerd points on us?

Our coverage broke down. Plus I really think they were holding on nearly every play. That's not the homer in me talking. Watch the tape. We had the rush on the edge and they had to hold both Spencer and Ware constantly to stop them.

 

[CATCH17]

If he played so well, why did Minnisoda score like a hunerd points on us?

Because football is a team sport.

 

[dcfanatic]

What makes me the most giddy is that his game against Minnesota was better than any game Ware's ever played for the Cowboys.

That's a bold statement but if you don't believe, just watch the game again and focus on him throughout the game. It was like he was possessed. He kept trash talking, getting in their faces, but more importantly, making plays at the line.

I haven't seen anything like it from a defensive end/OLB. Shincoe, Kleinsasser and their full back were just shaking their head the whole game about how they couldn't stop him. There were at least 4 holds on him that weren't called.

Spencer didn't start showing up until it was 17-3.

Prior to that he missed AD on a play, let Kleinsasser catch a pass on him, was blocked one on one a few times and was a half second late on Favre when he threw the first TD pass.

He was much better against the Eagles the week before where he played well all game.

 

[21Savage]

Spencer didn't start showing up until it was 17-3.

Prior to that he missed AD on a play, let Kleinsasser catch a pass on him, was blocked one on one a few times and was a half second late on Favre when he threw the first TD pass.

He was much better against the Eagles the week before where he played well all game.

Just wrong. Right from the very first AD run for a gain of 3 to the right side, Spencer drover Vi shiancoe 2 yards into the backfield and got in on the tackle. On the 3rd down in that series, 2 blockers go on him, leaving Demarcus to come free for the sack. He continued to set the edge and no other run came at him.

The next play to come at him in the Vikings second series of the game was the the pressure you alluded to, on 2nd and 6, at the 4:04 mark of the first. He beats his man badly and forces Favre to throw the ball earlier than he wants. If Sensebaugh plays the ball then it might be an int and we'll be talking about pressure leads to ints. I don't know how you can fault Spencer here. Favre said during the following week that the whole right side of his body was purple from that hit.

He did give up a pass on the 1st and 10 of their 3rd series to Kleisasser. But it was cover 2 zone defense with Bradie running down the middle of the field with the TE, and Brooking and Spencer playing zone in the middle. He also was threatened by Favre running, after our rush went pass Favre. So I'm not sure how you can fault him for that either.

On the next play, AD could've broken for a long one but Spencer catches him from behind, stopping him for a gain of 4, going for the ball and almost ripping it out.

2 plays later, might be the AD play you talked about. We were in a 4 man line, with Spencer having his hands on the ground, not a 5-2 line. Brooking blitzed and went offsides. I'm not sure if AD was Spencer's responsibility or Newman's in the flats. Spencer went after the passer the whole way, without retreat, and Newman came late off his man to the flats. For this play, I don't know.

About 3 plays later, he beats his man off the ball, is about to drop AD for a one yard loss, and then gets blatantly pushed in the back on the play with no call. AD picks up about 11 yards and a first down on this play, to the dismay of Spencer, who's waving his hands in disgust at the refs when the play is over. It was on 2nd and 10 at the 8:10 mark of the 2nd.

The next play he was involved in was hustling to tackle Rice on that bootleg, bs, touchdown.

We then turn over the ball, giving them a short field. On first and goal, Spencer beats his man and drops AD for a one yard loss in the backfield, at the 5:18 mark of the 2nd. And that's the amazing thing about his game, and even Wade said this last year: the amount of inside tackles he makes for an OLB in a 3-4. He's just destroying his man off the snap.

So he did show up before it was 17-0. And stronger when we had to make a stand, in the pressure filled 3rd quarter.

The one play he never made that could've been big was that he had Harvin for about a 6 yard loss and failed to make the tackle.

 

[dcfanatic]

Just wrong. Right from the very first AD run for a gain of 3 to the right side, Spencer drover Vi shiancoe 2 yards into the backfield and got in on the tackle. On the 3rd down in that series, 2 blockers go on him, leaving Demarcus to come free for the sack. He continued to set the edge and no other run came at him.

The next play to come at him in the Vikings second series of the game was the the pressure you alluded to, on 2nd and 6, at the 4:04 mark of the first. He beats his man badly and forces Favre to throw the ball earlier than he wants. If Sensebaugh plays the ball then it might be an int and we'll be talking about pressure leads to ints. I don't know how you can fault Spencer here. Favre said during the following week that the whole right side of his body was purple from that hit.

He did give up a pass on the 1st and 10 of their 3rd series to Kleisasser. But it was cover 2 zone defense with Bradie running down the middle of the field with the TE, and Brooking and Spencer playing zone in the middle. He also was threatened by Favre running, after our rush went pass Favre. So I'm not sure how you can fault him for that either.

On the next play, AD could've broken for a long one but Spencer catches him from behind, stopping him for a gain of 4, going for the ball and almost ripping it out.

2 plays later, might be the AD play you talked about. We were in a 4 man line, with Spencer having his hands on the ground, not a 5-2 line. Brooking blitzed and went offsides. I'm not sure if AD was Spencer's responsibility or Newman's in the flats. Spencer went after the passer the whole way, without retreat, and Newman came late off his man to the flats. For this play, I don't know.

About 3 plays later, he beats his man off the ball, is about to drop AD for a one yard loss, and then gets blatantly pushed in the back on the play with no call. AD picks up about 11 yards and a first down on this play, to the dismay of Spencer, who's waving his hands in disgust at the refs when the play is over. It was on 2nd and 10 at the 8:10 mark of the 2nd.

The next play he was involved in was hustling to tackle Rice on that bootleg, bs, touchdown.

We then turn over the ball, giving them a short field. On first and goal, Spencer beats his man and drops AD for a one yard loss in the backfield, at the 5:18 mark of the 2nd. And that's the amazing thing about his game, and even Wade said this last year: the amount of inside tackles he makes for an OLB in a 3-4. He's just destroying his man off the snap.

So he did show up before it was 17-0. And stronger when we had to make a stand, in the pressure filled 3rd quarter.

The one play he never made that could've been big was that he had Harvin for about a 6 yard loss and failed to make the tackle.

Way to take 500 words to explain what I said in 20.

He didn't make any plays until it was 17-3.

The week before he was better.

 

[21Savage]

Way to take 500 words to explain what I said in 20.

He didn't make any plays until it was 17-3.

The week before he was better.

So none of those I mentioned were plays? What plays did he then make after 17-0, following your definition.

And I don't see how he could've been better in the Philly game when his strong suite is the run game and they didn't run the ball half as much as the Vikings did. Doesn't follow.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Way to take 500 words to explain what I said in 20.

He didn't make any plays until it was 17-3.

The week before he was better.

No you said he didn't show up until later which was wrong.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

The last 2 seasons, the defense has started out really bad. Not sure it's because of the new personel but we have been starting out slow out of the gate.

Don't be surprised if it's like that again this year. This defense seems to get better and reach it's peak around week 9 or so.