Just the stats --- Skins 2005 defensive statistics w/ and w/o Lavar Starting

[superpunk]

Osi Umenyiora can rush the passer, but can't stop the run to save his life. Pierce was great at helping out there and when he went down, teams just started running at Umenyiora and that essentially took him out of the game.

I agree, but that just showed me how good Pierce was, that he made that much of a difference.

 

[dbair1967]

Uh, he was injured in 2004. He did have 17 sacks from 2002-2003 and did it despite never having the same D-Coordinator and being in the Spurrier era.



Not true. Outside of 2004, he's been healthy. He was very productive in 2000, 2002, and 2003. (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187383)


Rich............

his stats on ESPN are mediocre at best...he had one good season, one above average and a bunch of nothing otherwise

the guy has been VASTLY overrated, he makes TONS of stupid plays and two of the best defensive coaches in football dont like him as a player, that says enough for me

david

 

[DLCassidy]

Marvin Lewis called Lavar "the most undisciplined player he's ever coached". Ouch. Nice guy Gregg Williams was so frustrated with Lavar's unwillingness to carry our his assignments he benched him for several games last year, despite the fact that Lavar was earning a huge salary and his backup basically sucks. Double ouch. Lavar is represented by the Poston's, a tandem BP loathes. Triple ouch.

Even putting aside Lavar's discipline issues and his choice of agent, it would seem Lavar's up the field style would be a better fit for an attacking 4-3 team like Philly than our "read and react" 3-4. Size and athletic ability Lavar is off the charts. The stats you've compiled are interesting. But bottom line my gut tells me if we intend to pay good money for an annoying coach killer it would be TO before Lavar, at least TO is a consistent performer.

 

[samsnead96]

LaVar didn't even play 3rd down for the Commanders this year at all.

He was in and out for every game he played.

I'd be interested in finding out how many snaps LaVar actually played because it wasn't many.

It's undoubtedly a reason why he wanted out of DC. Williams just wasn't playing him much.

So it's hard to justify the original post.

I'm an Eagles fan but I watch the Skins because my wife's a fan of theirs and Arrington had little do with the Commanders defensive resurgence.

For one, they got Griffin back at the end of the season for that run where they finished 5-0. Sean Taylor also got healthy during that span because he injured his foot against the 49ers and missed the Tampa game where Simms torched them and then played hurt for a while after that.

They also had their 3 corners missing games throughout the season.

So if I were to look for any correlation between the stats and who was playing, I'd look at the following players: Griffin, Taylor, Springs, Rogers, and Harris.

And LaVar had some awful games during that span: he was owned by Tiki and Shockey in the 36-0 loss, L.T. in the Chargers loss, and the entire Tampa offense in the 36-35 loss.

He had good games against: Philly at FedEx on ESPN and against the Raiders. He also made a couple plays against the Rams.

Games where he just disappeared: the Cardinals game and then the final three games of the season against Dallas, NY, and Philly. Marcus Washington and Taylor were the dominant players for the Commanders during that stretch.

Arrington got into a fight with his linebackers coach after the NY game in week 16 by the way. For whatever reason, he just totally disappeared during that stretch and I think it was during that period where he decided he wanted out. His attitude was bad and that precipitated him speculating his future prior to the last game against Philly that Gibbs got so pissed about.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Lavar said in a DC radio interview today that he wants to stay in the NFC East and play the Commanders once a year.

Hmmm ... does anyone know if there is a team in the NFC East that is looking for a LB?

 

[CowboysNumeroUno]

Lavar said in a DC radio interview today that he wants to stay in the NFC East and play the Commanders once a year.
Hmmm ... does anyone know if there is a team in the NFC East that is looking for a LB?

Either he is really dumb like everyone says, or you mistyped what he said.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Yep, I mistyped. He said he wants to play in FedEx once a year.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

From all of this Lavar not meeting expectations talk, I thought Joe Gibbs was the master motivator?


Rich........

 

[RiggoForever]

From all of this Lavar not meeting expectations talk, I thought Joe Gibbs was the master motivator?


Rich........

He is...but he had a severe rift with his position coach Dale Lindsey, and to a lesser extent Gregg Williams. Gibbs lets Williams run the show for the defense entirely.

Plus, Gibbs' Commanders have been releasing players who are unhappy about playing for the team and more about "me". Coles, Smoot, McCants, and now Lavar. Pierce was a mistake to let go, and I think all honest Commanders fans realize that now. But as a whole Gibbs has replaced the cuts with players that totally buy into his philosophy.

 

[TunaFan33]

Here’s just a look at the Skins stats last year when Lavar was starting and when he wasn’t starting:

LAVAR STARTING (11 GAMES)

87.9 rushing yards allowed per game

3.7 yards allowed per carry

1.18 fumbles recovered per game

1.36 interceptions per game

1 INT per 26.7 pass attempts defended

1 TD allowed per 36.5 passing attempts defended

2.72 sacks per game

1 sack per 13.37 passing attempts defended

6.4 passing yards allowed per attempt.

55.6% completion allowed

68.7 QB rating allowed


LAVAR NOT STARTING (7 GAMES)

131.7 rushing yards allowed per game

4.8 rushing yards allowed per carry

0.28 fumbles recovered per game

0.43 interceptions per game

1 INT per 66.3 passing attempts defended

1 TD allowed per 39.8 passing attempts defended

1.43 sacks per game

1 sack per 19.9 passing attempts defended

5.9 passing yards allowed per passing attempt

53.8% completion percentage allowed

73.2 QB Rating allowed


Note that when Arrington wasn’t starting, Washington faced Kyle Orton in his first start ever at FedEx, Alex Smith in his first start ever at FedEx, and the Broncos in a torrential downpour.



Rich……………

Taylor missed a couple of games-the guy's their glue in the secondary. And Griffin missed some significant time as well.

Maybe that's why some of those 7 games were pretty lukewarm?

Nah-wouldn't even want LaVar anywhere near our lockerroom either.

 

[TunaFan33]

From all of this Lavar not meeting expectations talk, I thought Joe Gibbs was the master motivator?


Rich........

Well-even Gibbs couldn't save Manley or Clark in his old days.

Guess you can't make chicken-salad out of chicken-stratch, just like the old saying.

 

[TunaFan33]

Plus, Gibbs' Commanders have been releasing players who are unhappy about playing for the team and more about "me". Coles, Smoot, McCants, and now Lavar. Pierce was a mistake to let go, and I think all honest Commanders fans realize that now. But as a whole Gibbs has replaced the cuts with players that totally buy into his philosophy.

Coles, as it turned out, had a bum foot that didn't get much better in NY last year.

Smoot was torched quite a bit in Moony last year.

And Pierce has had a history of injury problems himself, as we saw last year.

 

[InmanRoshi]

ARRINGTON TURNED DOWN $6.5 MILLION

A reader has tipped us off to an unusual dynamic regarding the recent release of linebacker LaVar Arrington by the Commanders, which occurred when he agreed to waive $4.4 million in earned but unpaid signing bonus money. We've confirmed the following new information through a league source.

As it turns out, the 'Skins offered to convert the $6.5 million roster bonus owed to Arrington into a guaranteed signing bonus, which would have permitted it to be prorated over four years. The 'Skins also offered to move up all or part of the $4.4 million in deferred payments from his December 2003 signing bonus.

Arrington was poised at one point to accept the deal, but then opted for free agency.

So the maneuver results in a $10.9 million hole from which Arrington will now dig on the open market. And if his agents haven't lined up a deal that will pay him more than $10.9 million plus his $545,000 base salary in 2006, it will prove in hindsight to be a bad move.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

If you didn't notice the significant difference in the Commanders defense between Lavar and Warrick Holdman, I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. You obviously didn't watch many Commanders games this year.

I happen to think that his reputation as a "lockerroom cancer" is ridiculous, and if you've ever watched a Commanders game you would know the guy is revered by his teammates and the emotional/vocal leader of the defense. Everyone rallied behind him. .

But this latest move demonstrates two things to me...

a) Gibbs wasn't eager to run him off. Quite the opposite. If his deal wasn't so ridiculously shortsighted and backloaded by Snyder, there's no doubt in my mind that he would still be a Commander.

and

b) He isn't playing this game just for the pay day.

 

[RiggoForever]

If you didn't notice the significant difference in the Commanders defense between Lavar and Warrick Holdman, I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. You obviously didn't watch many Commanders games this year.

I happen to think that his reputation as a "lockerroom cancer" is ridiculous, and if you've ever watched a Commanders game you would know the guy is revered by his teammates and the emotional/vocal leader of the defense. Everyone rallied behind him. .

But this latest move demonstrates two things to me...

a) Gibbs wasn't eager to run him off. Quite the opposite. If his deal wasn't so ridiculously shortsighted and backloaded by Snyder, there's no doubt in my mind that he would still be a Commander.

and

b) He isn't playing this game just for the pay day.

I hate to agree with you, but it turns out that Lavar did agree to restructure to stay with the team. The main sticking point is that he wanted the restructure to stick regardless of whether there is a new CBA or not. The Commanders only wanted it to stick if there is no new CBA.

 

[samsnead96]

If you didn't notice the significant difference in the Commanders defense between Lavar and Warrick Holdman, I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. You obviously didn't watch many Commanders games this year.

I happen to think that his reputation as a "lockerroom cancer" is ridiculous, and if you've ever watched a Commanders game you would know the guy is revered by his teammates and the emotional/vocal leader of the defense. Everyone rallied behind him. .

But this latest move demonstrates two things to me...

a) Gibbs wasn't eager to run him off. Quite the opposite. If his deal wasn't so ridiculously shortsighted and backloaded by Snyder, there's no doubt in my mind that he would still be a Commander.

and

b) He isn't playing this game just for the pay day.

It wasn't Arrington coming in for Holdman that turned the defense around.

Warrick Holdman just sucks. Williams was in the middle of a big spat with Arrington over playing time and STILL put LaVar in there because Holdman was so underwhelming. I guarantee you Williams hated doing that because Arrington was saying all kinds of crap about the coaching staff at the time, most of it insinuating they were jealous of his popularity in DC and were trying to hold him down to increase their own popularity. He was being totally absurd at the time.

But back to Holdman....I believe they might have deactivated him for a game or two. I know there were games where he never even got a snap.

Holdman began to refuse to talk to the media toward the end of the season and clearly will not return to the Commanders. He really fell out of favor with Williams and Dale Lindsey.

But you are right that LaVar's defensive teammates liked him. They got energy from him on the field the few times he was actually out there (which wasn't much) but he's not really the guy they rally around anymore. Marcus Washington is. Ever since they brought Washington in he's become what LaVar was or was supposed to be. Which kind of was the downfall of LaVar because he just began to fade in importance to their defense. Everyone saw that Washington was a much more smart and technically sound player who seemed to constantly be around the ball. LaVar just made a few big hits per game but made mistakes and generally disappeared otherwise. Washington, who ironically is great friends with LaVar, basically exposed him in a way.

And LaVar began to grow alienated with the situation as a result. He whined that nobody cared about him. It got so absurd really.

He's not really a "cancer" like T.O. is but he's very high maintenance. If it's not the LaVar Show, he'll get upset and he'll moan.

It was really this that got Gibbs and the defensive coaches annoyed with him. Everybody keeps pointing to the contract dispute but it wasn't that. LaVar's ego was bruised by the fact he was no longer the man in DC. He was saying some stupid stuff as a result, stuff that reflected that all he cared about was how he was doing and not the team.

He actually told one of the newspapers that the coaches didn't like seeing all the #56 jerseys in the stands. This was the comment that basically turned Gibbs against him. Gibbs rarely talked about him again after that and if he did, almost did it through clenched teeth. After that, I had no doubts Gibbs would accept any deal for LaVar that either a) brought the team cap relief or b) got them something of good value in a trade. It turned out to be a), which is what they needed most due to the CBA situation. But make no mistake that Gibbs was very ready for LaVar to leave his team...

 

[Muhast]

If you didn't notice the significant difference in the Commanders defense between Lavar and Warrick Holdman, I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. You obviously didn't watch many Commanders games this year.

I happen to think that his reputation as a "lockerroom cancer" is ridiculous, and if you've ever watched a Commanders game you would know the guy is revered by his teammates and the emotional/vocal leader of the defense. Everyone rallied behind him. .

But this latest move demonstrates two things to me...

a) Gibbs wasn't eager to run him off. Quite the opposite. If his deal wasn't so ridiculously shortsighted and backloaded by Snyder, there's no doubt in my mind that he would still be a Commander.

and

b) He isn't playing this game just for the pay day.

Cowboys fans never learn.

Didn't they say the same thing when we were interested in Deion? The same thing when we wanted Keyshawn? They assume players never learn, and thats just not true.

If a player WANTS to be in a system, he'll do what he can to stay there.

 

[dbair1967]

From all of this Lavar not meeting expectations talk, I thought Joe Gibbs was the master motivator?


Rich........

well he has done a better coaching job with what he has than Parcells here I'd say.....and over his career he has a better winning %, more playoff wins, more super bowl wins and has assembled an all star coaching staff currently of assistants that are considered among the best in the league

you can only motivate so much...Arrington has proven w/o a shadow of a doubt he wasnt worth the draft spot that was used on him...he is another of those "look like tarzan, play like Jane" types of players that each draft is loaded with...on the field he is just another player

David

 

[dbair1967]

Cowboys fans never learn.

Didn't they say the same thing when we were interested in Deion? The same thing when we wanted Keyshawn? They assume players never learn, and thats just not true.

If a player WANTS to be in a system, he'll do what he can to stay there.

the problem with that argument is Keyshawn Johnson was already a VERY good WR...Deion Sanders was already the BEST CB in football when he signed in SF or here with us...

Lavar Arrington isnt half the player either of those guys is...everyone seems to have this misconception about him (similar to Commanders fans when they drafted him)...he's had some of the best coaches in football work with him, and they all come to the same conclusion- that he just isnt very good and isnt worth the trouble...he makes too many knuckleheaded plays, doesnt play to his assignments, doesnt make many positive plays at all now and is very injury prone

David

 

[RiggoForever]

the problem with that argument is Keyshawn Johnson was already a VERY good WR...Deion Sanders was already the BEST CB in football when he signed in SF or here with us...

Lavar Arrington isnt half the player either of those guys is...everyone seems to have this misconception about him (similar to Commanders fans when they drafted him)...he's had some of the best coaches in football work with him, and they all come to the same conclusion- that he just isnt very good and isnt worth the trouble...he makes too many knuckleheaded plays, doesnt play to his assignments, doesnt make many positive plays at all now and is very injury prone

David

You also have to realize that Lavar has had 5 different defensive coordinators in 6 years in the league (Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottenheimer, Marvin Lewis, George Edwards, Gregg Williams). He's been asked to do so many different things, and play so many different schemes do to the turmoil and flux of the Commanders since he was a rookie until Gibbs got here.

I think by the time Gibbs got here he was of the mentality that he was the most important player on the Commanders (which he was when our defense sucked).

I still think he can have a great future, if he settles down under one defensive coordinator and just plays football. He has a chance at a fresh start now, I hope he doesn't blow it for his new team.