CFZ Kelvin Joseph in the Slot, Other Thoughts on Jacksonville Preseason Game

Pass2Run

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,870
Reaction score
12,221
I was looking for something to hang my hat on with Kelvin Joseph.

Number one, we know he can play STs well. Joseph was the most clutch player from last year. in the most clutch time with his FF on special teams. In my view, Bones saved this guy's career last year.

We also know he gave up a play or two against Jacksonville last year. But that was while playing on the outside. This year, playing from the slot, Joseph had at least one pass broken up, which couldn't have been played any better than it was played. The knock on him was finding the ball as it was in route. Well, he found it and batted it down.

I know some are still itching to cut Joseph. But I don't think you can. If you cut Joseph, who plays gunner? Who can play slot in a pinch? Say we need Bland to move to the outside if Gilmore or Diggs gets hurt, who plays slot? The injured Jourdan Lewis?

Who can also play outside and safety in a pinch?

Love him or hate him, Joseph provides top-notch special teams play, and can fill in as a back up at several positions. That's value.

Moving on now, let's talk about Rico Dowdle. His fumble wasn't as concerning to me as Turpin's fumble. I agree that Vaughn looks ready to roll. But I want to see more Rico Dowdle. For whatever reason last year, they didn't play Malik Davis in the playoffs. So, if you won't play a player in the playoffs, why even add him to the 53? I liked Dowdle's special teams return, and some of his runs looked pretty solid, outside of that fumble. I was sad we didn't see more of Luepke, and sad to see one of my favorite RBs from last year Qadree Ollison playing for the Jags. I take it he went over there with the RB coach. Oh well. You can't add every pet cat to the roster.

I was happy to see Turpin making a few plays. But he demonstrated the one thing I feared all along with him. NFL players are big, even the safeties and CBs are much bigger than Turpin. So, hanging on to the ball will be tough for him in the NFL. I suspect the Cowboys will roll with Turp. But I won't be surprised if we somehow look to replace him or reduce his role as the season goes on. On that same token, his role could increase if he figures out a way to hang on to the ball.

Jalen Tolbert showed a marked improvement. I was high on him last year, then my excitement sort of waned. Apparently, he's got game enough game for the NFL, though. He ran a crisp route and scored around traffic, which is encouraging. I'm also pretty sure that out of bounds call was actually a catch. Kudos for Tolbert. That is exciting.

Overshown. If we have one rookie who is over shown this year, well, I hope it's Overshown. I predict he beats out Damone Clark eventually, although Clark himself didn't look too bad. Harper also looked decent, but I just don't see him in a starting role. More of a backup/ST role, if he makes the 53.

My boy Jalen Brooks was sort of shut down. I didn't see much of Jalen Cropper. So Tolbert wins the Jalen battle round 1.

Mazi Smith wasn't all that noticeable, but he did exactly what we drafted him to do: helped stop the run.

There's a lot more, obviously, but I'm sure many will already squeal about the wordcount. So that's that. My first write up for the 2023 season. The 2023 offseason seemed to fly by now that it's here, and I'm glad it's here.
 

viman96

Thread Killer
Messages
21,546
Reaction score
22,651
At this point it is all on Joseph if he earns a 2nd contract. Regardless how well he does on STs, he is a complete bust until he proves otherwise.
 

TwistedL0g1k

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
3,492
Some good analysis in the OP! Wouldn't it be nice if Joseph developed into at least a contributor, if not fully up to his draft level? I like this defense!

I didn't like Turpin before this game, and even less now. Sure- he'll give you a good return every now and then, but his decision making is awful, and turnovers lose games. There is some quality depth now at WR that's worth keeping. Cut Turpin, and let Deuce or Davis or somebody handle the returns. Turpin is not worth a roster spot.
 

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
80,590
Reaction score
101,232
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Some good analysis in the OP! Wouldn't it be nice if Joseph developed into at least a contributor, if not fully up to his draft level? I like this defense!

I didn't like Turpin before this game, and even less now. Sure- he'll give you a good return every now and then, but his decision making is awful, and turnovers lose games. There is some quality depth now at WR that's worth keeping. Cut Turpin, and let Deuce or Davis or somebody handle the returns. Turpin is not worth a roster spot.
This has been my thought in a way all along as well.
If Deuce can give something in the return game, his value is much more, as he shown he can run the ball.

Turpin will get a few snaps at WR if that much. Use that spot to keep a promising WR.
 

Pass2Run

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,870
Reaction score
12,221
I think this is about it for Joseph.
Show more, or get tossed back into the lake.
Take his last two games. One FF in San Fran, and looked pretty sharp covering from the slot. He's at least a viable backup at those positions, and a starter on ST.

He makes the roster easy IMO.

I was clamoring to play him in the slot or at safety last year. They finally came around to my thinking on it. lol

Some good analysis in the OP! Wouldn't it be nice if Joseph developed into at least a contributor, if not fully up to his draft level? I like this defense!

I didn't like Turpin before this game, and even less now. Sure- he'll give you a good return every now and then, but his decision making is awful, and turnovers lose games. There is some quality depth now at WR that's worth keeping. Cut Turpin, and let Deuce or Davis or somebody handle the returns. Turpin is not worth a roster spot.
For the record, I'm not against small players. I mean, I was relatively small.

That's the issue with him though. Go look at how hard he got drilled on that last play. Then look at that fumble. NFL players are going to toss him around. Deuce is a little different because he's more compact and has more strength for his size.

This has been my thought in a way all along as well.
If Deuce can give something in the return game, his value is much more, as he shown he can run the ball.

Turpin will get a few snaps at WR if that much. Use that spot to keep a promising WR.

Several guys on this roster can return. Dowdle looked good on his return. But he's the other player who fumbled. I'd have to look at his college tape to see if he's prone to fumbling, which I admittedly haven't done. But he gives you a returner and a 3rd RB.

That said, I still want to see more of Luepke. Most know Vaughn will be a decent player in the NFL, if not good, and possibly great-ish. Like I said, I'm not totally against small players. It's the fumbling thing that concerns me.

It's preseason. Don't get me wrong. I like Turpin enough. I just fear he's going to turn it over more than we'd like to see.
 
Last edited:

CowboysFaninHouston

CowboysFaninDC
Messages
33,928
Reaction score
19,485
I was looking for something to hang my hat on with Kelvin Joseph.

Number one, we know he can play STs well. Joseph was the most clutch player from last year. in the most clutch time with his FF on special teams. In my view, Bones saved this guy's career last year.

We also know he gave up a play or two against Jacksonville last year. But that was while playing on the outside. This year, playing from the slot, Joseph had at least one pass broken up, which couldn't have been played any better than it was played. The knock on him was finding the ball as it was in route. Well, he found it and batted it down.

I know some are still itching to cut Joseph. But I don't think you can. If you cut Joseph, who plays gunner? Who can play slot in a pinch? Say we need Bland to move to the outside if Gilmore or Diggs gets hurt, who plays slot? The injured Jourdan Lewis?

Who can also play outside and safety in a pinch?

Love him or hate him, Joseph provides top-notch special teams play, and can fill in as a back up at several positions. That's value.

Moving on now, let's talk about Rico Dowdle. His fumble wasn't as concerning to me as Turpin's fumble. I agree that Vaughn looks ready to roll. But I want to see more Rico Dowdle. For whatever reason last year, they didn't play Malik Davis in the playoffs. So, if you won't play a player in the playoffs, why even add him to the 53? I liked Dowdle's special teams return, and some of his runs looked pretty solid, outside of that fumble. I was sad we didn't see more of Luepke, and sad to see one of my favorite RBs from last year Qadree Ollison playing for the Jags. I take it he went over there with the RB coach. Oh well. You can't add every pet cat to the roster.

I was happy to see Turpin making a few plays. But he demonstrated the one thing I feared all along with him. NFL players are big, even the safeties and CBs are much bigger than Turpin. So, hanging on to the ball will be tough for him in the NFL. I suspect the Cowboys will roll with Turp. But I won't be surprised if we somehow look to replace him or reduce his role as the season goes on. On that same token, his role could increase if he figures out a way to hang on to the ball.

Jalen Tolbert showed a marked improvement. I was high on him last year, then my excitement sort of waned. Apparently, he's got game enough game for the NFL, though. He ran a crisp route and scored around traffic, which is encouraging. I'm also pretty sure that out of bounds call was actually a catch. Kudos for Tolbert. That is exciting.

Overshown. If we have one rookie who is over shown this year, well, I hope it's Overshown. I predict he beats out Damone Clark eventually, although Clark himself didn't look too bad. Harper also looked decent, but I just don't see him in a starting role. More of a backup/ST role, if he makes the 53.

My boy Jalen Brooks was sort of shut down. I didn't see much of Jalen Cropper. So Tolbert wins the Jalen battle round 1.

Mazi Smith wasn't all that noticeable, but he did exactly what we drafted him to do: helped stop the run.

There's a lot more, obviously, but I'm sure many will already squeal about the wordcount. So that's that. My first write up for the 2023 season. The 2023 offseason seemed to fly by now that it's here, and I'm glad it's here.
the knock on overshown is his size. at 220, he will have a tough time playing close to LOS. he is a sideline to sideline player, and blitz. he is a hybrid saftey/LB that quinn likes. Clark has speed and better size to play the run and close to LOS. I can't see overshown taking over clark. they each have a different role. I don't see Overshown as a 1st or 2nd down player as he is way too undersized.
 

ghst187

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,722
Reaction score
11,572
I was looking for something to hang my hat on with Kelvin Joseph.

Number one, we know he can play STs well. Joseph was the most clutch player from last year. in the most clutch time with his FF on special teams. In my view, Bones saved this guy's career last year.

We also know he gave up a play or two against Jacksonville last year. But that was while playing on the outside. This year, playing from the slot, Joseph had at least one pass broken up, which couldn't have been played any better than it was played. The knock on him was finding the ball as it was in route. Well, he found it and batted it down.

I know some are still itching to cut Joseph. But I don't think you can. If you cut Joseph, who plays gunner? Who can play slot in a pinch? Say we need Bland to move to the outside if Gilmore or Diggs gets hurt, who plays slot? The injured Jourdan Lewis?

Who can also play outside and safety in a pinch?

Love him or hate him, Joseph provides top-notch special teams play, and can fill in as a back up at several positions. That's value.

Moving on now, let's talk about Rico Dowdle. His fumble wasn't as concerning to me as Turpin's fumble. I agree that Vaughn looks ready to roll. But I want to see more Rico Dowdle. For whatever reason last year, they didn't play Malik Davis in the playoffs. So, if you won't play a player in the playoffs, why even add him to the 53? I liked Dowdle's special teams return, and some of his runs looked pretty solid, outside of that fumble. I was sad we didn't see more of Luepke, and sad to see one of my favorite RBs from last year Qadree Ollison playing for the Jags. I take it he went over there with the RB coach. Oh well. You can't add every pet cat to the roster.

I was happy to see Turpin making a few plays. But he demonstrated the one thing I feared all along with him. NFL players are big, even the safeties and CBs are much bigger than Turpin. So, hanging on to the ball will be tough for him in the NFL. I suspect the Cowboys will roll with Turp. But I won't be surprised if we somehow look to replace him or reduce his role as the season goes on. On that same token, his role could increase if he figures out a way to hang on to the ball.

Jalen Tolbert showed a marked improvement. I was high on him last year, then my excitement sort of waned. Apparently, he's got game enough game for the NFL, though. He ran a crisp route and scored around traffic, which is encouraging. I'm also pretty sure that out of bounds call was actually a catch. Kudos for Tolbert. That is exciting.

Overshown. If we have one rookie who is over shown this year, well, I hope it's Overshown. I predict he beats out Damone Clark eventually, although Clark himself didn't look too bad. Harper also looked decent, but I just don't see him in a starting role. More of a backup/ST role, if he makes the 53.

My boy Jalen Brooks was sort of shut down. I didn't see much of Jalen Cropper. So Tolbert wins the Jalen battle round 1.

Mazi Smith wasn't all that noticeable, but he did exactly what we drafted him to do: helped stop the run.

There's a lot more, obviously, but I'm sure many will already squeal about the wordcount. So that's that. My first write up for the 2023 season. The 2023 offseason seemed to fly by now that it's here, and I'm glad it's here.
I don’t think Overshown beats out Clark. I think Clark is a rising star. Don’t get me wrong I love Over too but I think Quinn gets them both on the field.
Not sure what Malik Davis did but seems like he’s in the coach’s doghouse. I like Rico better at this point. But it’s hard to think that Deuce doesn’t end up taking the RB2 snaps because he gives you so much juice.
Definitely happy to see Tolbert put it together. He’s coming along nicely at WR4.
 

GimmeTheBall!

Junior College Transfer
Messages
37,494
Reaction score
17,879
I was looking for something to hang my hat on with Kelvin Joseph.

Number one, we know he can play STs well. Joseph was the most clutch player from last year. in the most clutch time with his FF on special teams. In my view, Bones saved this guy's career last year.

We also know he gave up a play or two against Jacksonville last year. But that was while playing on the outside. This year, playing from the slot, Joseph had at least one pass broken up, which couldn't have been played any better than it was played. The knock on him was finding the ball as it was in route. Well, he found it and batted it down.

I know some are still itching to cut Joseph. But I don't think you can. If you cut Joseph, who plays gunner? Who can play slot in a pinch? Say we need Bland to move to the outside if Gilmore or Diggs gets hurt, who plays slot? The injured Jourdan Lewis?

Who can also play outside and safety in a pinch?

Love him or hate him, Joseph provides top-notch special teams play, and can fill in as a back up at several positions. That's value.

Moving on now, let's talk about Rico Dowdle. His fumble wasn't as concerning to me as Turpin's fumble. I agree that Vaughn looks ready to roll. But I want to see more Rico Dowdle. For whatever reason last year, they didn't play Malik Davis in the playoffs. So, if you won't play a player in the playoffs, why even add him to the 53? I liked Dowdle's special teams return, and some of his runs looked pretty solid, outside of that fumble. I was sad we didn't see more of Luepke, and sad to see one of my favorite RBs from last year Qadree Ollison playing for the Jags. I take it he went over there with the RB coach. Oh well. You can't add every pet cat to the roster.

I was happy to see Turpin making a few plays. But he demonstrated the one thing I feared all along with him. NFL players are big, even the safeties and CBs are much bigger than Turpin. So, hanging on to the ball will be tough for him in the NFL. I suspect the Cowboys will roll with Turp. But I won't be surprised if we somehow look to replace him or reduce his role as the season goes on. On that same token, his role could increase if he figures out a way to hang on to the ball.

Jalen Tolbert showed a marked improvement. I was high on him last year, then my excitement sort of waned. Apparently, he's got game enough game for the NFL, though. He ran a crisp route and scored around traffic, which is encouraging. I'm also pretty sure that out of bounds call was actually a catch. Kudos for Tolbert. That is exciting.

Overshown. If we have one rookie who is over shown this year, well, I hope it's Overshown. I predict he beats out Damone Clark eventually, although Clark himself didn't look too bad. Harper also looked decent, but I just don't see him in a starting role. More of a backup/ST role, if he makes the 53.

My boy Jalen Brooks was sort of shut down. I didn't see much of Jalen Cropper. So Tolbert wins the Jalen battle round 1.

Mazi Smith wasn't all that noticeable, but he did exactly what we drafted him to do: helped stop the run.

There's a lot more, obviously, but I'm sure many will already squeal about the wordcount. So that's that. My first write up for the 2023 season. The 2023 offseason seemed to fly by now that it's here, and I'm glad it's here.
What kind of world is this where a grown ap man such as you would wring your hands and throw soft kisses to K. Joseph, marginal player who clings to ST as a salve to his short resume.
It is nice to know that there are talents such as Fatman Boss YKDV who can suit up and play only ST.
Now I am miffed and peeved at spending time to rebut a marginal player.
 

Havic

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,371
Reaction score
8,695
I don’t think Overshown beats out Clark. I think Clark is a rising star. Don’t get me wrong I love Over too but I think Quinn gets them both on the field.
Not sure what Malik Davis did but seems like he’s in the coach’s doghouse. I like Rico better at this point. But it’s hard to think that Deuce doesn’t end up taking the RB2 snaps because he gives you so much juice.
Definitely happy to see Tolbert put it together. He’s coming along nicely at WR4.
Davis played poorly. Rico didn't play much better tbh. Deuce was great.
 

RonWashington

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,271
Reaction score
8,246
Joseph is depth at CB . Pure and simple . Right behind Bland . Lewis is a medical settlement . Then you have some others fighting for the 5th CB slot .

Turpins fumble was troubling because he’s not going to make a big dent as a 5th receiver . If he’s coughing up the ball on ST I’m sorry that’s a replaceable roster spot .
 

RonWashington

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,271
Reaction score
8,246
Nashon Wright much more of a disappointment than Joseph . He’s about to lose his roster spot to a 7th rounder .
 

stilltheguru

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,373
Reaction score
14,309
Nashon Wright much more of a disappointment than Joseph . He’s about to lose his roster spot to a 7th rounder .
Wright is by far a better player than Joseph. Anybody saying otherwise has an agenda. It's amazing how people spend so much time on the Cowboys enough to post here and still not know what they're watching.
 

viman96

Thread Killer
Messages
21,546
Reaction score
22,651
the knock on overshown is his size. at 220, he will have a tough time playing close to LOS. he is a sideline to sideline player, and blitz. he is a hybrid saftey/LB that quinn likes. Clark has speed and better size to play the run and close to LOS. I can't see overshown taking over clark. they each have a different role. I don't see Overshown as a 1st or 2nd down player as he is way too undersized.
Overshown and Kearse are essentially the same size. Overshown can play near the LOS. Obviously not at MLB but he can play the strong safety/hybrid role that Kearse plays.

Jayron Kearse is 6'4" 215 lbs.
DeMarvion Overshown is 6'2 220 lbs
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
83,520
Reaction score
76,362
This has been my thought in a way all along as well.
If Deuce can give something in the return game, his value is much more, as he shown he can run the ball.

Turpin will get a few snaps at WR if that much. Use that spot to keep a promising WR.
I think Turpin is more promising than any other young receiver we have though except Tolbert.
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
83,520
Reaction score
76,362
Overshown and Kearse are essentially the same size. Overshown can play near the LOS. Obviously not at MLB but he can play the strong safety/hybrid role that Kearse plays.

Jayron Kearse is 6'4" 215 lbs.
DeMarvion Overshown is 6'2 220 lbs
Israel Mukuamu is too and I wonder if his future role is taking over for Kearse?
 
Top